Finally ordered suspension/brake upgrade

[eddiebx]

I can't find the article now but road and track I think changed the tires on a Corvette Z06 and instantly had 10 less feet of stopping distance because of tire compound. Listen, I can't say how much better these tires would do because I have not tested them. I can tell you with certainty though the best mod to better braking is high performance summer tires. AT or MT not so much. Unfortunately, again this is a world filled with compromises and most of us cannot have three or four sets of tires mounted up and ready to go. My point to the OP was he sounded like he was willing to do anything to get better stopping distance hence the different pads and rotors, yet he put a tire on his 4Runner that was not close to optimal for braking performance.

Greg, I can definitely appreciate how a summer tire can decrease stopping distances, but perhaps I didn't phrase my question clearly.

What I meant was, assuming that we are already able to lock up a particular set of tires with the stock brake system, is it possible to achieve even shorter stopping distances by upgrading only the brake pads/rotors while keeping the same set of tires on the vehicle? (leaving brake fade out of the equation)

To me it seems like no matter how hard we can make the brakes "clamp down", so to speak, we're still being limited by the tire?

This stems from your comment about hopefully achieving better stopping distances with OPs Duratracs and his new rotors and pads

 

[Paragon1]

Fact is that my duratracs do far better than the oem tires, which we all know completely suck for both cornering due to the crap sidewalls and braking because they are way too narrow (IMO) for a vehicle of that size. It was a trade off for economy's sake since Toyota didn't want the 4runner to run below 20mpg.

Yes, there's brake fade when towing, I have a Boston Whaler 190 outrage which is 20' overall with engine and with an 8ft beam and I'm trailering it everywhere. The pic makes it look small, but it fills up the rear view pretty good!

Eng, I don't want to keep going back and forth with to you since, given your handle on here you take a lot of pride in your equations . But since I think comparing a corvette to a 4Runner with regards to braking is at best idiotic since they have completely different handing dynamics... We'll just let the numbers do the talking.

You make a good point about people using the "butt-dyno" and nothing more to quantify performance "enhancements" so like I said, I want to provide real numbers for the forum from before and after the mods.

Regarding the rotors, I had a 4ft 60-0 difference when I modded my IS300. I don't have the numbers anymore because its been a few years. That was after the 5.5ft brake pad upgrade, (did the rotors last as funds permitted).

Anyway, good discussion though and I hope you didn't take offense to my sarcasm. Parts arrive tomorrow, and as soon as my wrist heals from yesterday's surgery ill get to work, in the meantime ill get a baseline of the current setup. Maybe I'll go all out and get wet-dry comparisons too.

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[dekeman]

No matter how many times he does the test, even using the latest equipment, it's unlikely to yield proof positive. Our experience is that braking tests, like mileage claims, are often incorrect.

And Greg, where did those braking numbers come from? They look better than what I recall for the 4R, which I thought required 140 or so feet from 60 mph, which was still better than all the competition. I think C/D required 200 feet from 70 mph.

Heck, we barely got the Corvette 427 to stop at 122 feet from 62 mph. Only the new 911 did better.

 

[blizz86]

There isnt much to argue here. The tires have a profound effect on braking over "performance pads/rotors". Its quite obvious that the Duratracs are a stiffer tires compared to the softy Dunflops or Duehlers but they are no comparison ON ROAD/TOWING to sticky street tires (as [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] has been saying). The slotted brakes and EBC pads, or any other "race brakes" are optimal when constantly active (eg around track bends, corners, etc).

Conclusion: The 5100's will maintain your stability when heavy braking, and will be optimal when paired with trailer brakes, and tires with a good amount of contact that have thin sipes, not large blocky tread.

 

[Stifler]

red calipers or GTFO /threadopcorn:

 

[Paragon1]

red calipers or GTFO /threadopcorn:

There isn't enuf gap in my wheels to make red calipers worth the cost. Besides, I'm wasting my money on worthless rotors anyway! Lol

 

[1engineer]

No matter how many times he does the test, even using the latest equipment, it's unlikely to yield proof positive. Our experience is that braking tests, like mileage claims, are often incorrect.

And Greg, where did those braking numbers come from? They look better than what I recall for the 4R, which I thought required 140 or so feet from 60 mph, which was still better than all the competition. I think C/D required 200 feet from 70 mph.

Heck, we barely got the Corvette 427 to stop at 122 feet from 62 mph. Only the new 911 did better.

Yes, believe me I know about different test results lol! Temperature, driver, surface, time and everything else will have a profound difference. I got the result here 2011 Toyota 4Runner Road Test Specs and it was comparable to what I remembered and also with other similarly weighted vehicles.

 

[1engineer]

Greg, I can definitely appreciate how a summer tire can decrease stopping distances, but perhaps I didn't phrase my question clearly.

What I meant was, assuming that we are already able to lock up a particular set of tires with the stock brake system, is it possible to achieve even shorter stopping distances by upgrading only the brake pads/rotors while keeping the same set of tires on the vehicle? (leaving brake fade out of the equation)

To me it seems like no matter how hard we can make the brakes "clamp down", so to speak, we're still being limited by the tire?

This stems from your comment about hopefully achieving better stopping distances with OPs Duratracs and his new rotors and pads

Now I understand your question!
It is possible but usually requires changing calipers and various brake components besides pads and rotors. You can make a system "quicker" and with faster and stronger clamping speed and force shave milliseconds off of brake engagement time, thereby gaining milliseconds around the track.

 

[icsa]

Yes, believe me I know about different test results lol! Temperature, driver, surface, time and everything else will have a profound difference. I got the result here 2011 Toyota 4Runner Road Test Specs and it was comparable to what I remembered and also with other similarly weighted vehicles.

That edmunds test used a RWD SR5 weighting 4,320 lbs.
Compare it with a 4WD SR5 at 4675 lbs or a 4WD Limited at 4805 and you will get a lot longer stopping distance.

The trail edition weighting 4,753 lbs stopped in 140 feet: 2010 Toyota 4Runner Trail Grade Road Test

 

[1engineer]

That edmunds test used a RWD SR5 weighting 4,320 lbs.
Compare it with a 4WD SR5 at 4675 lbs or a 4WD Limited at 4805 and you will get a lot longer stopping distance.

The trail edition weighting 4,753 lbs stopped in 140 feet: 2010 Toyota 4Runner Trail Grade Road Test

Yeah check out the HP and torque specs too. Which is right?

 

[diverdriver]

OP, have you considered upgrading your brake fluid? Over time brake fluid will adsorb moisture lowering its effectiveness. Perhaps consider a performance fluid like Motul that will also offer a higher boiling point. Another option would be braided lines.
I"m interested to hear your impressions on the upgraded rotors/pads.

 

[Paragon1]

OP, have you considered upgrading your brake fluid? Over time brake fluid will adsorb moisture lowering its effectiveness. Perhaps consider a performance fluid like Motul that will also offer a higher boiling point. Another option would be braided lines.
I"m interested to hear your impressions on the upgraded rotors/pads.

I thought about braided lines, but don't think the fluid is much of a factor, not at this point at least, if I do a total brake upgrade I'll do the motul fluid, but for now the factory stuff is fine.

 

[Ryan1975]

The EBC's I ordered are for standard SUV/truck use. I've run these rotors/pads on my other vehicles without any issues at all, and was able to verify the improvement was worthwhile through testing it before and after, I'll do the same here for those who are interested.

I'm towing all the time, and here in florida the average driver (Stifler, I know you know this) is about 85 and completely incapable of judging distance before pulling out in front of you... I've had to make several emergency stops while towing and the last one literally smoked my brakes (my trailer brakes are fine).

I know it won't cure the creeping at stop lights, but if I need help stopping in a hurry, I want to know I've done all I could. Secondly, i think the addition of the 5100's will also assist with braking, eliminating the insane nosedive (especially during emergency braking) which "may" help mitigate the brake boost issue associated with it. So thanks for your concern... But it's worth a try.

I'm sorry...but this post is bullshit. How much do you tow?

I've completely shredded brakes in a weekend of driving on the Nurburgring in Germany on my old GTO. This is what I've towed in my 4Runner:

Oklahoma City to San Antonio

Upstate NY through Upper Michigan to KC

I've towed more than anyone that I've seen on this board. Brakes have never been an issue.

 

[Paragon1]

Well gee whiz Ryan, I'm fresh out of cookies for ya. Props on your dual axle trailer with disc brakes though, must be nice! If you're comfortable pulling whith the $hitty stock setup thats your call. I could care about as little about that as I do about you and a POS GTO at the Nurburgring, how's Pontiac doing anyway?

Anyway I'm towing all over the SE. From weekends up in the carolinas to runs down to key west. The boat completely loaded out is 4000lbs with gas, gear and trailer. The trailer brakes do enough to keep it in line, but that's about it.

 

[Stifler]

Well gee whiz Ryan, I'm fresh out of cookies for ya.

:lol:

 

[Paragon1]

Update

 

[tristero]

[MENTION=60898]Paragon1[/MENTION] I'm curious to hear how the EBC greenstuff pads worked out for you. Mine are starting to warp ever so slightly.

 

[Paragon1]

[MENTION=60898]Paragon1[/MENTION] I'm curious to hear how the EBC greenstuff pads worked out for you. Mine are starting to warp ever so slightly.

I went back to the stock rotors, the slotted ones warped too, and replaced the EBC with duralast gold pads. I was towing a boat a lot so I went through the pads pretty fast. Overall the duralast were better though.

 

[BLACK-FL4RUNNER]

So, basically, the stock brakes are the best way to go....

Are you still out of cookies?

:hiding:

 

[tristero]

I went back to the stock rotors, the slotted ones warped too, and replaced the EBC with duralast gold pads. I was towing a boat a lot so I went through the pads pretty fast. Overall the duralast were better though.

I appreciate your input. I don't tow, but I drive pretty hard.

I need to replace the rotors—they have about 80k on them—I just figured I'd do everything while I have it apart.
[MENTION=104049]marshal[/MENTION] I know you just installed your EBC, but are you still thinking they're the bee's knees?