GA dealer has bar bones 4cyl 5th Gen

[westwind77]

Manlier? That's funny.

Yes... not sure why it is funny though.

man·ly (mnl)
adj. man·li·er, man·li·est
1. Having qualities traditionally attributed to a man.
2. Belonging to or befitting a man; masculine.

As you said, to each their own. Every person who has seen my new 5th says they like it more than the 4th. I am sure others have different opinions, such as you. Hope you enjoy yours for a long time!

 

[Jed]

Yes... not sure why it is funny though.

man·ly (mnl)
adj. man·li·er, man·li·est
1. Having qualities traditionally attributed to a man.
2. Belonging to or befitting a man; masculine.

As you said, to each their own. Every person who has seen my new 5th says they like it more than the 4th. I am sure others have different opinions, such as you. Hope you enjoy yours for a long time!

The word itself isn't funny, the idea that you think a 5th gen is "manlier" than a 4th gen is the funny part.

Actually, I would feel just as "manly" driving a Toyota Corolla as I would a 4Runner. I don't need a vehicle to make me feel or seem "manly". LOL:thumb3:

 

[audiqtr]

only one thing I like about that car.... There is no pull out trunk tray.

 

[westwind77]

The word itself isn't funny, the idea that you think a 5th gen is "manlier" than a 4th gen is the funny part.

I guess we both get a laugh from it because I think the idea of the 4th being 'manlier' is equally as funny. I am sure the 4th was 'manlier' than the 3rd, but then again I bet a lot of people argued it was not also.

Not saying you fit into the criteria, but, I have noticed people who can not upgrade to the newest models (cars, electronics, etc) for whatever reason tend to always 'bash' the new one, no matter how good it is, even it is clearly better than the previous one. Almost like a form of subconscious jealousy. As soon as they do make the upgrade they praise the new product, it is very entertaining.

 

[Jed]

I guess we both get a laugh from it because I think the idea of the 4th being 'manlier' is equally as funny. I am sure the 4th was 'manlier' than the 3rd, but then again I bet a lot of people argued it was not also.

Not saying you fit into the criteria, but, I have noticed people who can not upgrade to the newest models (cars, electronics, etc) for whatever reason tend to always 'bash' the new one, no matter how good it is, even it is clearly better than the previous one. Almost like a form of subconscious jealousy. As soon as they do make the upgrade they praise the new product, it is very entertaining.

I'm not sure that you understand this, but I don't think ANY generation is "manlier" than the other. Actually, I think it is beyond silly to say that one vehicle is "manlier" than another at all. I don't see cars as masculine or feminine.

And who is bashing the 2010? You can't find a single post where I would be considered bashing it. If I say that I don't like the way it looks, am I bashing it? I think not. Like I said a bunch of times already, looks are subjective. That's not bashing.

That said, your latest post smacks of elitism. You may not realize it, but it does. Why is purchasing a 5th gen 4Runner an "upgrade"? Sorry, but a lot of guys on this forum would disagree with your assessment. There are a lot of things Toyota took away on the 5th gen, so some people would consider it a downgrade. In any event, I wouldn't even think of buying a 5th gen as an upgrade to a 4th gen. But again, that's just MY opinion...you are free to disagree.

Who knows, some day I may own a 5th gen. Probably not though, unless they change the front and rear styling. But don't take offense.... It's kinda like the 3rd gen guys who refused to buy a 4th gen because they thought it was ugly. Do you think that bothered me in any way? Of course it didn't. So don't let my opinion of the 5th gen bother you.

 

[war07eagle]

The word itself isn't funny, the idea that you think a 5th gen is "manlier" than a 4th gen is the funny part.

Actually, I would feel just as "manly" driving a Toyota Corolla as I would a 4Runner. I don't need a vehicle to make me feel or seem "manly". LOL:thumb3:

Image matters, I wouldnt feel near as much a man driving a corolla or the soccor mom attuned 4th gen. I am in the boat thats glad they gave the 5th gen its balls back...
still talking about how much better new body style might be when compared to old isnt really what this section of the forum is meant for, so im going back to talking about the 5th gen

so i still wonder how bad the 4cyl could be, it wasnt long ago that 4cyl was commonly accepted as good enough, though cars were lighter, the 4cyl weren't as well tuned

 

[Jed]

BTW, I like the 5th gen styling from the side profile view (like in your avatar), but it's the front and back view that I don't like. And that can be addressed in a mid-cycle refresh, similar to what we saw in 2006.

I'd love to see them make the rear tailights flush with the body also... that would help a lot from the rear view.

 

[Jed]

Image matters, I wouldnt feel near as much a man driving a corolla or the soccor mom attuned 4th gen.

It's sad that you need a particular vehicle to feel like a man. To me, a vehicle doesn't make me feel more or less like a man.

And do you really think 4th gens are for soccer moms? Now THAT is funny. I guess you could never own one because then you'd really feel like a little lady.

 

[Clemsonfan15]

It's sad that you need a particular vehicle to feel like a man. To me, a vehicle doesn't make me feel more or less like a man.

And do you really think 4th gens are for soccer moms? Now THAT is funny. I guess you could never own one because then you'd really feel like a little lady.

You have to admit though that it's a lot different driving a Sienna minivan compared to a F-250.

I personally think the 1st or 3rd Gens look the most aggressive.

 

[westwind77]

Wow, seems I touched a nerve there!

Actually, I think it is beyond silly to say that one vehicle is "manlier" than another at all. I don't see cars as masculine or feminine.

Ok then, then you can drive a pink Miata for the rest of your life Just becuase you do not see a car/suv that way does not mean the majority of others feel the same way. Sorry, cars/suv have been representing peoples personalities since they 1st came on the market, everything from status to style. Think about the sterotypes (which have changed a lot recently), but, soccer moms drive minivan, gay men and girls drive Miata, 'country folk' drive pick ups, yupies drive beemers & benz's, and on and on.

And who is bashing the 2010? If I say that I don't like the way it looks, am I bashing it? I think not. Like I said a bunch of times already, looks are subjective. That's not bashing.

Actaully, yes, that is bashing. Plainly saying you do not care for the looks of it is one thing. You go the step further saying it is 'funny' to you that I think it looks better.

Why is purchasing a 5th gen 4Runner an "upgrade"? Sorry, but a lot of guys on this forum would disagree with your assessment. There are a lot of things Toyota took away on the 5th gen, so some people would consider it a downgrade. In any event, I wouldn't even think of buying a 5th gen as an upgrade to a 4th gen. But again, that's just MY opinion...you are free to disagree.

I do agree with you on this point. My 99' Durango had a full-time 4wd system and my 10' 4R does not, so I agree they did take things away without a question. Well, if I wanted to spend the $$$ for a limited I could have that system, but not a general option. An 'Update' is a more appropriate term.

Who knows, some day I may own a 5th gen. So don't let my opinion of the 5th gen bother you.

Your opinion does not bother me, as mine of the 4th should not bother you. I love my 5th and, IMO, as VERY happy I passed up the pre-owned 4th. I would be jealous of every 5th that passed me if I did not. I really would like to see what Toyota's sales numbers are for the 5th after 1 year! I am curious how it compares to the last 4th year. I think you need to lighten up a little. Obviously the 4th is not bad, I almost bought one

 

[Jed]

Wow, seems I touched a nerve there!

Not at all! I'm amused, not angry or upset in any way. I'm actually getting a kick out of this discussion

Ok then, then you can drive a pink Miata for the rest of your life Just becuase you do not see a car/suv that way does not mean the majority of others feel the same way. Sorry, cars/suv have been representing peoples personalities since they 1st came on the market, everything from status to style. Think about the sterotypes (which have changed a lot recently), but, soccer moms drive minivan, gay men and girls drive Miata, 'country folk' drive pick ups, yupies drive beemers & benz's, and on and on.

I wouldn't drive a Miata of any color, but not because I wouldn't feel "manly" in it (your word, not mine!), but because it's not a vehicle that interests me in any way. Yes, it is true that some cars represent some people's personalities....but not everybody thinks that way. I don't see my 4Runner as an extension of myself and I didn't purchase it to portray an image. My image is WHO I AM, not what I drive. If your theory was the ONLY correct theory, then EVERYONE who drives a pick-up would have to be 'country folk', everyone who drives a Mercedes would have to be a "yuppie", etc... but that's clearly not the case.

Actaully, yes, that is bashing. Plainly saying you do not care for the looks of it is one thing. You go the step further saying it is 'funny' to you that I think it looks better.

Come again? Bashing is if I said it was a POS or inferior in some way. I never said that, I just said I don't like the styling. So if you think I'm bashing it, then so are a ton of other guys on the forum. And I'm not sure where you think I said it was "funny" to me that you think it looks better. I never said that. Either way, that's not a knock on the vehicle, it's me being amused at the way you perceive the difference between the two generations. I said that it's funny to me that you think it is manlier. Again, not bashing your opinion, but it still is funny to me that you have a point of view based upon your perception of masculinity.

Your opinion does not bother me, as mine of the 4th should not bother you. I love my 5th and, IMO, as VERY happy I passed up the pre-owned 4th. I would be jealous of every 5th that passed me if I did not. I really would like to see what Toyota's sales numbers are for the 5th after 1 year! I am curious how it compares to the last 4th year. I think you need to lighten up a little. Obviously the 4th is not bad, I almost bought one

Of course your opinion doesn't bother me. I never even hinted at that. It is you that is on the defensive, obviously taking my statements personally. BTW, if you want to look at sales numbers, the only way to do it fairly would be to look at the sales numbers for the first year of each generation. Obviously the '09 numbers will be way down....that's natural at the end of a generation, not to mention that Toyota slowed down production for the last year of production. So of course '09 sales will be lower than '10 sales. But if you want an apples-to-apples comparison, lets look at the numbers for the '03 models and the '10 model. Prediction: It won't even be close. But of course the economy is still in the gutter and although gas prices have held somewhat steady lately, the 4th gen obviously was at a big advantage, so it should have sold better.

 

[SeattleMike]

I didn't buy a 3rd generation 4R because I was too damn broke. By the time I was in a position to spend that kind of cash on a new 4Runner to replace my 1985 pick-up, the 4th generation was in it's 3rd year of production. I wasn't wild about the styling but I was really not happy with what actually mattered most... sitting in it and going somewhere. The difference between the 4th and 5th is night and day from a driver's perspective. Better visibility, better control location, and a more comfortably laid out interior... the direct comparison between the 4th and 5th I was able to make on the lot sold me on the 5th as soon as I sat in it.

Of course, the profile looks sweet, too. And of course, it's all subjective.

 

[bradj]

I didn't buy a 3rd generation 4R because I was too damn broke. By the time I was in a position to spend that kind of cash on a new 4Runner to replace my 1985 pick-up, the 4th generation was in it's 3rd year of production. I wasn't wild about the styling but I was really not happy with what actually mattered most... sitting in it and going somewhere. The difference between the 4th and 5th is night and day from a driver's perspective. Better visibility, better control location, and a more comfortably laid out interior... the direct comparison between the 4th and 5th I was able to make on the lot sold me on the 5th as soon as I sat in it.

Of course, the profile looks sweet, too. And of course, it's all subjective.

+1

I liked the 4th gen. But never enough to buy one. As soon as I saw the 5th gen I loved it. Test drove one and have been trying to get one ordered ever since.

Everytime I see a 5th gen on the road it catches my eye. Everytime I see a 4th gen theres a woman driving it... lol no offense

 

[Jed]

+1

... Everytime I see a 4th gen theres a woman driving it...

LOL, another guy who is insecure about himself.

So let me ask you this-- does it really matter to you who drives any gen 4Runner? What if the 5th gen turns out to be purchased and driven mainly by women? Would you sell yours if you owned one? :toilet:

Imagine what a waste that would be!!:jump:

 

[westwind77]

Yes, it is true that some cars represent some people's personalities....but not everybody thinks that way.

Correct, not everyone thinks that way, but the majority does. I hate to use the Miata for example but if you tell most people you drive a Miata you know exactly what is going on in the back of their mind, whether they say it or not. (I will say the new Miatas are a LOT different than all previous year, and I hate to say this again, but they managed to make the Miata more 'manily' as well , but it is still a 'Miata')

If your theory was the ONLY correct theory, then EVERYONE who drives a pick-up would have to be 'country folk', everyone who drives a Mercedes would have to be a "yuppie", etc... but that's clearly not the case.

Well, not extacly. There is a reason for stereotypes, but there are always exception. To say that is 'clearly' not the case' is not acurate. Weathly people drive expensive cars, that is a sterotype, but it is also acurate. Yes, some choose to drive less expense cars, but the majority do not. They have the money to spend, and they do. It is easy these days to pick out a persons personality based on what they drive. Cars have become so specialized and unique, just take a look at the new Cube or the new Volt.

Come again?

Your adamant opinion of the 4th over the 5th plus the little snide not so obvious undertones you exhibit lead you to quietly bash the 5th, which is fine, that is your right and your opinion.

It is you that is on the defensive, obviously taking my statements personally.

See that is funny, I was going to say the same thing about you!

BTW, if you want to look at sales numbers, the only way to do it fairly would be to look at the sales numbers for the first year of each generation. Obviously the '09 numbers will be way down....that's natural at the end of a generation. So of course '09 sales will be lower than '10 sales. But if you want an apples-to-apples comparison, lets look at the numbers for the '03 models and the '10 model. Prediction: It won't even be close. But of course the economy is still in the gutter and although gas prices have held somewhat steady lately, the 4th gen obviously was at a big advantage, so it should have sold better.

Well the 4th gen was out for a while, the body style is dated today, the interior more than the exterior. I looked at an 06' & 08' and I was ok with the exterior but when I got inside the 4R I felt like I was in 01'-04' for styling, i was expecting a more up-to-date look, which I think played into their low sale numbers at the end. I do want to compare the 09' to 10's though. It is not a new model, same name, new design. It will show how many people Toyota was able to have 'update' to the 5th and show how many new customers they brought to the 4R. The economy is still in the tank, if they did not change the style for 10 what would have sales been? Most likely very close to 09'. That is why I want to see what jump, if any, exists for the 5th.

 

[westwind77]

Everytime I see a 4th gen theres a woman driving it... lol no offense

My eyes catch all the 4R's now, and I totally agree with that. Nothing wrong with it at all, just a basic observation. Observations lead to data. Data leads to conclusions.

 

[Jed]

Correct, not everyone thinks that way, but the majority does. I hate to use the Miata for example but if you tell most people you drive a Miata you know exactly what is going on in the back of their mind, whether they say it or not. (I will say the new Miatas are a LOT different than all previous year, and I hate to say this again, but they managed to make the Miata more 'manily' as well , but it is still a 'Miata')

So are you saying that only gay men drive Miatas because that's the stereotype? Do you realize what makes something a stereotype? I have news for you----not all men driving Miatas are gay. In fact, I'd bet that the majority of men who drive Miatas are not gay. The very fact that the ratio of gay vs straight men is very lopsided, that would be silly to surmise that only gay men drive Miatas. But whatever, it's a pointless debate when you look at the big picture.

Well, not extacly. There is a reason for stereotypes, but there are always exception. To say that is 'clearly' not the case' is not acurate. Weathly people drive expensive cars, that is a sterotype, but it is also acurate. Yes, some choose to drive less expense cars, but the majority do not. They have the money to spend, and they do. It is easy these days to pick out a persons personality based on what they drive. Cars have become so specialized and unique, just take a look at the new Cube or the new Volt.

When I said it was "clearly not the case", I referred to "everyone", meaning an absolute. And yes, it is clearly not the case that everyone who drives a pick-up truck is "country folk" and everyone who drives a Mercedes is a "yuppie". LOL, my brother happens to own & drive a Chevy Silverado and a Mercedes S-class. I guess he must be one of those new yuppie country boys!

I completely disagree with your idea that it is easy to pick out someone's personality by the vehicle they drive. You must live by stereotypes if you believe that. My next door neighbor's 25-year-old son drives a new '09 Range Rover. It stickered at nearly $90K. He didn't buy it, he leased it. Still, it's a very expensive lease payment. And guess what? He lives in his father's basement and doesn't even have a full time job. If you saw him driving down the road, you would have probably thought he had a lot of money. See, that's the problem with your theory--it is completely flawed. The same idea can be illustrated by my personal physician. He's loaded, but he drives a Nissan Maxima that's about 10 years old. If you saw him driving down the road, I'm sure you would never guess that he's a medical doctor who makes more money than most people.

Your adamant opinion of the 4th over the 5th plus the little snide not so obvious undertones you exhibit lead you to quietly bash the 5th, which is fine, that is your right and your opinion.

Adament opinion? I'll say this again---I haven't bashed the 5th or said the 4th gen was better than the 5th. I only said that I don't like the styling of the 5th gen. I guess you just can't get that through your head, so lets leave it at that. I don't think anyone on this forum is as sensitive as you if someone says they don't like the looks of your vehicle. Seriously...get over it already.

Well the 4th gen was out for a while, the body style is dated today, the interior more than the exterior. I looked at an 06' & 08' and I was ok with the exterior but when I got inside the 4R I felt like I was in 01'-04' for styling, i was expecting a more up-to-date look, which I think played into their low sale numbers at the end. I do want to compare the 09' to 10's though. It is not a new model, same name, new design. It will show how many people Toyota was able to have 'update' to the 5th and show how many new customers they brought to the 4R. The economy is still in the tank, if they did not change the style for 10 what would have sales been? Most likely very close to 09'. That is why I want to see what jump, if any, exists for the 5th.

Like I said, new models always outsell old models. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Either way, 4Runner sales are sure to decline as the years pass because there are fewer and fewer people interested in a midsize body-on-frame SUV with a live rear axle. Face it, the 4Runner glory days are over and there's no going back unless Toyota decides to start making unibody 4Runners with independent rear suspensions. I wouldn't want one of those, but it would appeal to more people than our 4Runners. So don't focus too much on sales numbers because the 5th gen will not break any sales records, that's for sure!

 

[SeattleMike]

Like I said, new models always outsell old models. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Either way, 4Runner sales are sure to decline as the years pass because there are fewer and fewer people interested in a midsize body-on-frame SUV with a live rear axle. Face it, the 4Runner glory days are over and there's no going back unless Toyota decides to start making unibody 4Runners with independent rear suspensions. I wouldn't want one of those, but it would appeal to more people than our 4Runners. So don't focus too much on sales numbers because the 5th gen will not break any sales records, that's for sure!

You know, the problem with making declarative statements is that someone is going to come along and ask you for cites, statistics, and facts to back up your argument. Toyota is currently undergoing the largest recall in automotive history, across multiple product lines, during the worst economic period since the stagnation of the late 40's... at least. So, what data are you using to determine that "new models always outsell older models" in a comparable economic environment? Based on the empirical data gathered during my recent search, the total scarcity of TE's on the lots, and the rapid pace of sales by dealers pricing ANY 4R under $40k, I'm also going to dispute your claim that there are fewer and fewer people interested in that exact style of construction. The evidence suggests otherwise.

You offer a lot of opinion that you want accepted as facts, and you also want to argue, so... show me the data. :

 

[westwind77]

So are you saying that only gay men drive Miatas because that's the stereotype?

Wow, you really just don't get it do you? It seems like everything in your world is Black or White. True or False. Yes or No. In reality it is rarely that easy. If congress has to pass things 100% we would never move! Hense the 'majority rules' theory. Most men/women can tell you the Miata is a 'gay' car, and I do not mean that in a negative way at all. I remember a couple weeks ago watching a primetime sitcom the actors were joking about someone being gay and they said 'go get into your Miata and go to the salon' as an 'insult', leading back to the stereotype.

When I said it was "clearly not the case", I referred to "everyone", meaning an absolute. And yes, it is clearly not the case that everyone who drives a pick-up truck is "country folk" and everyone who drives a Mercedes is a "yuppie". LOL, my brother happens to own & drive a Chevy Silverado and a Mercedes S-class. I guess he must be one of those new yuppie country boys!

Again, your 'Black & White' world. Like I said there are exceptions to the rules, however, I have a feeling he is 'well to do' with an S class and a new pick-up, supporting my theory more so. Look at Jay Leno, I am sure he has a lot of old pick ups, but since he collects them it does not make him a 'country folk', just wealthy.

I completely disagree with your idea that it is easy to pick out someone's personality by the vehicle they drive.

Ok, the majority of people, (there is that pesky word you don't seem to like because it is not 100%) who drive hybrids or electric cars are very environmental. Sure, you are going to find a good amount of people who drive them to save $$ because of the MPG's but they are also as 'statement' of what you stand for. That has been said across numerous mediums, not just from me. Chances are you will find more environmetal people driving a small hybrid than a F-350, if you can not see that I'm sorry.

Certain cars/trucks/suv are marketed directly at specific demographics becuase they are targeting people of certain age groups and personalities. Have you seen the media for the new 4R, they are trying to target a younger more outdoor consumer.

I few years ago I remember the commercial for the 'Matrix', sporting an AC outlet that they had musician using, and lots of trunk space for their gear. Funny thing is that shortly after I was seeing a lot of band people driving around with them, hmmm, makes you think.

Sure, someone driving down the road in a std camery you can not pin a personality on (because they dont have one, haha just kidding), however, when you get into more specialized cars/trucks/suv yes, you sure can, not 100% though, sorry.

My next door neighbor's 25-year-old son drives a new '09 Range Rover. It stickered at nearly $90K. He didn't buy it, he leased it. Still, it's a very expensive lease payment. And guess what? He lives in his father's basement and doesn't even have a full time job. If you saw him driving down the road, you would have probably thought he had a lot of money. See, that's the problem with your theory--it is completely flawed. The same idea can be illustrated by my personal physician. He's loaded, but he drives a Nissan Maxima that's about 10 years old. If you saw him driving down the road, I'm sure you would never guess that he's a medical doctor who makes more money than most people.

Ok, well, not to be rude but someone living in a basement with no job yet driving a $90k car is what is wrong with America today. Do not even get me started with that. Looks like he is trying to fit into the stereotype of having a lot of money, but actually not having it.

Yes, and yet again sir, your 'Black/White' rule, there are exceptions. Yes, your Dr. friend drives a 10yr old maxima, but I have over a dozen clients as doctor and not one drives a car more than 3 years old and every one is well over $60k. You have to look at the bigger picture. How many rock stars are driving their Jetta's to dinner?

Adament opinion? I'll say this again---I haven't bashed the 5th or said the 4th gen was better than the 5th. I only said that I don't like the styling of the 5th gen. I guess you just can't get that through your head, so lets leave it at that. I don't think anyone on this forum is as sensitive as you if someone says they don't like the looks of your vehicle. Seriously...get over it already.

Personally I do not care if someone likes whatever I drive, only that I do. You are the one that has issues they need to get over. You are taking everything just a little too personal here, relax, it is just the internet, lol I am the one who has been laughing and making jokes throughout my responces, showing that I am just having fun here.

Like I said, new models always outsell old models. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Either way, 4Runner sales are sure to decline as the years pass because there are fewer and fewer people interested in a midsize body-on-frame SUV with a live rear axle. Face it, the 4Runner glory days are over and there's no going back unless Toyota decides to start making unibody 4Runners with independent rear suspensions. I wouldn't want one of those, but it would appeal to more people than our 4Runners. So don't focus too much on sales numbers because the 5th gen will not break any sales records, that's for sure!

I have seen 'new' models do worse than the previous models certain years because the company made really bad design changes. Think about your statement please for me, why do new models do better? If the product is not better it should not do better. People would be happier to keep their existing one and not 'update'. Do you think they do better because we are all sheep and need to have the latest and greatest? I think people 'update' for a better product, for the majority (wow, will that word ever go away?). Who knows how the 5th will do in the end, time will tell. It might not break sales records, but you would have to compare it with all 2010 sales of SUVs and others to see how it really made out. It is way too early in the game, I will not even call it.

Lets just take a deep breath here, relax and smile The 4th is an amazing SUV just as the 5th happens to be. Sure everyone has their own thoughts one why each is better than the other, but I am sure we all agree they are better than an chevy or ford (kidding, maybe ) Be happy you have a car, a home to park it at, and a job to pay for it. A lot of people are not that lucky these days.

 

[Jed]

You offer a lot of opinion that you want accepted as facts, and you also want to argue, so... show me the data. :

Are you disputing that the 2010 4Runner will (or will not) outsell the 2009 model? Or are you just generalizing about a new body style coming out on any vehicle?

Obviously there is no data or proof to show you that the 2010 4Runner will outsell the 2009 4Runner (which is what I was saying) because the final sales numbers won't be available until the end of the model year. But I'll bet you that it does outsell it, despite the poor economy. Lets revisit this when the 2011 models hit the dealerships.