Gasoline/oil prices. How did you know?
- Thread starter juneau92
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The price of gas always goes up in spring/summer. Assuming it's not a conspiracy, the argument is the shift to EPA-mandated fuel mixtures for lower emissions combined with an increase in demand for holiday travel, summer vacations, and people just being out more because the weather is nicer.
The pundits on TV are now saying $5 isn't out of the question yet this year, as they're predicting that crude oil will keep climbing to over $140/barrel this summer. There's just too much worldwide demand for oil.
The pundits on TV are now saying $5 isn't out of the question yet this year, as they're predicting that crude oil will keep climbing to over $140/barrel this summer. There's just too much worldwide demand for oil.
peter78
Super Moderator
It seems when the TV says something about gas, it comes true. They might say, there is a storm at XYZ and it will affect oil production and the price goes up that night at the local gas station.
I don't like to listen to predictions because they have a nasty habit of coming true, even if the prediction is unfounded.
Also, I see prices going up in the store for about everything and people at my work say we are in a tough time and we have to cut back. This whole thing of gas prices is really pissing me off. (I know we have other problems in the world, but still it is pissing me off.)
I don't like to listen to predictions because they have a nasty habit of coming true, even if the prediction is unfounded.
Also, I see prices going up in the store for about everything and people at my work say we are in a tough time and we have to cut back. This whole thing of gas prices is really pissing me off. (I know we have other problems in the world, but still it is pissing me off.)
I remember hearing in Nov or Dec watching News channels that it was going to be $4 by summer and I didn't doubt them.
I also remember hearing in Feb (on the news) that experts are predicting $5/gallon by the end of this year. Again, I don't doubt it.
I think were going to see a serious push by the automobile manufacturers for developing alternative fuel cars and improving the ones they already have.
I also remember hearing in Feb (on the news) that experts are predicting $5/gallon by the end of this year. Again, I don't doubt it.
I think were going to see a serious push by the automobile manufacturers for developing alternative fuel cars and improving the ones they already have.
N
Neversummer
Guest
I just saw the CNN report that predicted that oil will reach 200/barrel as early as 2010. This will push gas up to between 7-8/gallon more in line with European prices.
It is forecast that gas could hit 10/gallon in the US by 2012 given the current global economic and political environment.
Whatever happens, this is just the start of things to come...
It is forecast that gas could hit 10/gallon in the US by 2012 given the current global economic and political environment.
Whatever happens, this is just the start of things to come...
808BMW
New member
I don't care how much a barrel of oil costs when the oil companies are making record profits.
I was talking about how sickening gas is out here (5-17-08 it's about 4.16 for 87, ouch for diesel at 4.60+) with a customer when the news headline was flashing "Shell posts record $8 billion profit for first quarter". If you make over $2.5 billion a month, you can afford to cut the customer a break.
Gas should be a utility like water & electric.
I was talking about how sickening gas is out here (5-17-08 it's about 4.16 for 87, ouch for diesel at 4.60+) with a customer when the news headline was flashing "Shell posts record $8 billion profit for first quarter". If you make over $2.5 billion a month, you can afford to cut the customer a break.
Gas should be a utility like water & electric.
As a percentage of revenue, the profits of the oil companies are on par with some utilites. Last year, ExxonMobil made a mere 10% (much less than Microsoft's 33% or Google's 25%), which is on par with Excelon's 12% and ConEd's 8.5%. My point is that the oil companies' profit numbers are so big because their gross revenue is simply astronomical. Unless you're really bad at business, it's really hard not to make a big profit number on $404 billion of revenue.
I don't think the government should try to regulate gasoline prices, and I also don't think that the oil companies are big sources of tax revenue ripe for the picking. (They also pay huge taxes on those huge revenues already.) I would like to see more of those profits directed toward building refineries in the U.S. ASAP, and also on more exploration. Those two things would naturally bring the market into better alignment and lower gas prices.
I don't think the government should try to regulate gasoline prices, and I also don't think that the oil companies are big sources of tax revenue ripe for the picking. (They also pay huge taxes on those huge revenues already.) I would like to see more of those profits directed toward building refineries in the U.S. ASAP, and also on more exploration. Those two things would naturally bring the market into better alignment and lower gas prices.
So true. Negativity generated by the news media often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The same can be said about other facets of the econmoy right now, like other commodity prices or foreclosures. Tell enough people that the sky is falling, and eventually people will think it really is.peter78 said:
Jeff Kleb
New member
808BMW said:
We tried something like that back in the 1970s. It did not work well then, and won't work very well now. I would rather have gasoline at the 'market price' and be readily available, as opposed to being $2 a gallon and having to put up with long lines and rationing.
peter78 said:
I think this is a psychological effect at play. When someone hears in the media constant reporting about how back the economy is, then they follow that up with 'personal' stories where people lost their homes and can't afford to eat, etc, then the viewer might start to build fear and anxiety over the economy as well.
Once that fear and anxiety hit, people stop buying things, they start to adjust their lifestyle, etc, even though they may not have to in order to survive. Thus, making the economy worse, diving us closer to a recession, etc.
r32 said:
Well put , I could not agree more. The media fuels all of this stuff and it just explodes and we as Americans get sucked in hook , line and sinker , and the sad part is there is not jack crap we can do about it. Not doubt the oil company's are scamming us and as long as we buy it and the Gov't let's it happen ....... then ??????????
There is not oil shortage and no reason for it to go up like this. Years ago the Standard Oil Company had quite the monopoly on gasoline & oil , the Gov't stepped in and shut that down because of them being able to set their own profits. Well here we are but it's more than one company screwing us.
The U.S. has not built an oil refinery in like 30 years , wonder why and who is controlling the puppets.
American get sucked in to buying this Hybrid stuff and flex fuel stuff. Flex fuel 85% ethanol is very few few and far between where you can find it here if at all. The funny thing Americans get sucked into ( like by GM ) for instance who pushes flex fuel vehicles is that even though it's cheaper per gallon they way it burns in a vehicle make the milage drop significantly . A friend with the new style Tahoe flex fuel , pays less at the pump but his city gas milage drops from 13-14 to 9 mpg , but when you go to look at the Tahoe they just push the flex fuel as an alternative and eventually people catch on and now they are pushing the new 900 platforms in a Hybrid instead of flex fuel. The add'l cost of a Hybrid and add'l long term maint. cost's can buy you a lot of gasoline.
Why does OUR Alaskan pipeline fuel go out of the country ? No confirmation on that it's just what I was told by my Uncle who lives there. They figure there is enough oil here to drill in the united states to last 200 years + (per media) but we can't drill for it because of the tree huggers . When I well is built and completed in the wilderness it is done so friendly to the wilderness that animals and deer , ect... become part of their habitat without issues (just like the Alaska pipeline). When we do have oil wells its sent out of the country to refinery's who actually set the barrels $ amount to refine it and sell it back to us. AGAIN ...... who gets shafted ???????
I think I'll have to do something other than my paper route to afford gas for the 4R. (just kidding) all we can do is hope for the best. IT sucks !!!
Anyone have any solutions ??
I also feel ALL the auto mfg's can easily get these gas engines to get way more milage with todays technology , who is controlling the puppets there?? Our wonderful "W" president passes a law for auto mfg's to get better milage with in the next 5 years or something , c'mon give me a break !! IDIOT !!
Not to get political at all here but when "W" was running and got into the oval office I was all for it , yes voted for him both time's , but now I really think he messed up a lot of stuff in office especially in his 2nd term , but still happy he is there than the hypocritical Gore. Anyway I can see the future news headline's ....... "TR4 owners take over in the oval office "
Lets see what else can I complain about ???? .......oh I ain't gettin any either......damn !! ( just making light of things .....lol. )
Oh , and on global warming issue ........ j/k
Jeff Kleb
New member
Well, here are a few steps that we as a nation could take to help alleviate the situation. Of course, conservation and slowing demand sound nice - but don't work if you want a growing economy. Like it or not, reasonably cheap & abundant energy is the lifeblood of our industrial strength and our national security.
The first thing is to get rid of so many "boutique" blends of gasoline. It drives up the refining and transportation costs so much - and for a miniscule improvement in air quality. Having four or five different blends (not grades, but blends) of gasoline in each state is simply ridiculous! Today's cars burn so much cleaner and pollute so much less than vehicles made just a decade ago.
The second step is to begin expanding capacity at current refineries - as well as beginning construction on new ones. All the crude oil in the world won't do us any good if we cannot make it into gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, kerosene or motor oil. Aside from being an economic issue, self-refining is a matter of national security. We have plenty of open land that could be used for new refineries, as well as highway and rail infrastructure to support them. An often-unmentioned benefit is the fact that hundreds of thousands of high-paying jobs (from field workers to systems engineers) would be created almost instantly. Additionally, that means fewer dollars going overseas to people who wish us dead!
Third, as part of any national comprehensive energy plan, we should reward - or at least stop punishing - exploration of new oil reserves located within the USA or offshore. Oil companies must be assured that any refineries under construction will not be made worthless because of Uncle Sam deciding to change or toughen the rules after the game has started. Remember that petroleum is a business and not a charity. Why should they always be expected to lose money just because a price is perceived as "too high" or for political reasons? Rather than putting up with socialist demagogues, we should find ways to put market forces to work in our favor for once!
Spare me inevitable environmental caterwauling, though, as our technology has allowed for practically trouble-free harvesting of petroleum elsewhere. Even when hurricanes have destroyed oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, there was no accompanying "oil spill" that had to be dealt with afterward. In the unlikely event of such things, we have gotten much better about cleaning them up when they do happen.
Fourth, alternative fuels need to be looked at. No, we won't solve our problems with ethanol, wind power or soybeans; but some of these resources could end up supplementing typical fuels elsewhere in the economy. Nuclear energy is also vastly underestimated and has the potential to provide a greater percentage of our "land line" electric power, and thus may free more petroleum for automotive uses.
America is the "Saudi Arabia" of coal, and we probably have 500+ years of it underneath our own land. Transforming it into synthetic gasoline is not cost-effective - yet; but could prove so in the future. Even if it costs more to harvest it (along with shale oil reserves, etc.), remember that most all of that money would be kept here in the United States - rather than sent overseas to brutal regimes who would slit our throats if they had the chance to do so. Stability of supply at a higher price is usually superior to having spotty availability at a reduced cost.
Our southern neighbor, Mexico, is awash in oil. They seem to have no problem 'exporting' their people to us and our tax dollars end up supporting many of them here in our country. Those who work here (both legally and illegally) probably send umpteen billions of dollars back to their relatives at home. Perhaps it is time to work out something akin to a "barrel for a baby" or something like that, or we're going to continue to hear that giant sucking sound that Ross Perot mentioned all those years ago.
:bash:
Finally, a public announcement by our President (whomever it may be in 2009) and a few Washington leaders & oil company executives could serve to ignite a "fire sale" by OPEC. If we were to embark on a Marshall Plan for oil & energy production, the OPECkers would probably be so frightened that they'd drop prices instantly overnight just to stave off any Yankee ingenuity that may crop up in the coming years.
Without us being a customer, it is safe to say that the camel jockeys would probably be back in the 7th century very quickly - as they do not really have much else on which to base their economy. Whether we know it or not, we have a lot of leverage in the long-term energy market - and it is high time that our leaders step up to the plate and do the right thing. For the liberals out there, just tell them that it is "for the children" and they'll have no choice but to come aboard.
:biggrin2:
With other nations in the "developing" world expecting to grow their economies (and demanding more oil) and no new nations coming aboard as 'energy exporters' anytime soon, we are going to have to come to grips with the reality that we must find ways to increase our supplies. What are we supposed to do when the Middle East oil wells being sucking wind? When that happens, the USA, Mexico, Canada and Russia are probably going to be left with the vast supply of energy reserves.
~~ End of rant & time for a break! ~~
N
Neversummer
Guest
Excellent post Jeff.
004Gunner
New member
You only hear people ***** about capitalism when it doesn't work in their favor and rarely do you ever hear it followed with an intelligent, viable solution to the issue at hand. Suck it up and ride it out like the rest of us. Read up on a little bit of American history and tell me if you still feel justified to have your panties up in a bunch (If the shoe fits. . .). I'm not saying it's all good, just saying this country has survived far worse. I agree that a lack of consumer demand for fuel efficient technology has come back to bite us hard, but the technology just needed a little spark before igniting. This current quasi crisis has put the necessary emphasis on energy conservation/efficiency and in the true spirit of capitalism, the race is on to develop the best. And remember, they will not keep building it if we do not buy it.
Cornfed
New member
Jeff Kleb said:
Great post Jeff!
I live in the Florida Keys and it saddens me to know that the Chinese are drilling 45 miles from here, probably slant drilling into U.S. reserves and taking our oil, while we are being held hostage by enviro-nazis.
The current House and Senate are already controlled by enviro-nazis and have banned shale oil imports from Canada for the last 6 months. Hopefully the ban will be overturned this week, 1.4 million barrels a day may not be enough to cause prices to drop, but I'm sure a cut of that same amount would cause prices to skyrocket.
Funny how that works
Read this link. A lot of information about why we are where we are. Government deregulation of the oil trading sector years ago, trading firms issue self-fulfilling profecies of higher prices in the future and more.
http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=2652
http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=2652
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