Handgun in the 4R

[M1911]

So glad I stumbled upon this thread today. I am going to a gun show on Saturday for my first gun purchase and to take a CCW course. I have been researhcing for some time now and just can't decide G19, 23, 26 or 27.

For home defense, larger is better than smaller. The 26/27 have a very small grip that will leave your pinky dangling. The 19/23 have a full grip and a slightly longer sight radius. Both of those things -- grip and sight radius -- make the 19/23 significantly easier to shoot quickly and accurately. The 19/23 conceal easily in a CrossBreed IWB holster. I strongly suggest that you get the 19 or 23.

At one time, 9mm defensive ammo was not that good. But with good 9mm JHP (for example, Federal HST), there isn't that much difference in performance between 9mm and .40. The 9mm will have noticeably less report and less recoil. It will also be cheaper.

If I could easily get a Glock 19 in MA (our laws suck, don't ask), I would sell my Glock 23 and get a 19 instead.

If you carry concealed and find yourself wanting something smaller than the Glock 19/23, then I suggest you add a pocket gun to your Glock 19/23, like a Kahr PM9, S&W Shield, S&W 642, etc. The Glock 26/27 are just too thick to work for me as a pocket gun.

 

[02SE]

The above can happen with ANY pistol and caliber...

I never said that it couldn't happen with any other caliber. I only stated that the bad guy wasn't stopped in a timely manner, despite two of the three shots hitting center-mass. The third shot was just outside of what is typically considered center-mass. Anyway, it changed my friend's perspective of what he wanted to carry, while on duty.

 

[Gerdo]

What ever you end up with, LOCK IT UP when it's not in your presence.

 

[GrantK]

First, far more agencies (including many high profile ones) use .40, .45, and 9mm than .357.

Second, the OP is a BEGINNER. Starting with .357 will not help him learn. It will hinder his learning marksmanship.

Third, the difference in terminal performance between .357 and 9mm is pointless if he can't hit his target, and he can get more 9mm per dollar than .357 SIG.

Fourth, he can find 9mm in any gun shop in the country. .357 SIG? Not so much.

None of your points hold water.

Of course more agencies use something other than 357Sig, they've been using them forever. The 357Sig is the most changed to caliber. I wonder why, is it the cost or performance?

2nd by your logic the OP should start with .22 then move to .380. The 357Sig is just as easy to shoot as the 9mm.

Your right performance doesn't matter if he can't hit the target but what does that have to do with his ability to hit the target, a miss is a miss regardless of if it's a 9mm or 357Sig. That's why you practice. So what if it costs more. As I mentioned before, what's your life worth?

I've never been in a gun shop that didn't carry 357Sig.

 

[whodat]

everthing you will need to know this guy can tell you and being in the army for 6 years and going to afg 2 times and all the combat traning i have had this guy know's his sh**...........

James Yeager - YouTube

looks like I will be watching that this weekend. Thanks for the link.

I carry almost all the time and own a nice selection of handguns to choose from as well as having tried most handguns suitable for CCW at the range or at training classes. My personal choice, depending on what I'm wearing is either my Sig P229-DAK or P239. Both are chambered for 357Sig. I chose 357Sig, before choosing the pistol, mostly because it's a bottle neck round which means mis-feeds are almost impossible and after thousands of rounds through both guns I've never had a mis-feed or ejection problem. Remember the first rule of a carry weapon is that it must function first time, every time, no questions asked, no excuses accepted or you die.

The one thing I'll recommend to anyone that carries or is contemplating getting their CCW permit. Practice and train, go to the range as often as you can and take as many tactical handgun classes as you can. I'm not talking about the NRA CCW class or similar basic pistol class which many people take to qualify for their permit, I'm talking about a class that teaches how to carry, deploy and shoot under the stress of a life or death situation.

I need to look into these classes, not sure if they have such things in my area, but definitely sounds like something I will do, even if it's a drive to get to the class.

Learn to reload as well. Your weapon accuracy is only as good as what you feed it. Plus you can control your own supply. Never fails to amaze me someone will drop 4 figures on a weapon then use cheap ammo or cheap optics on long rifles.

Will do.

Definitely rent everything and test them out. I have a wide range of pistols but I carry my Glock 23 the most. If a Glock DOES fit your needs, look into GSSF($35 I think). If you join, you get a pretty nice discount off a new gun and can compete in their target matches which are a lot of fun. I think there is a waiting period for the discount now though. It used to be you join and get an immediate discount.

Good to know, thanks for the heads up!

If I knew you were such a Sensitive Nancy I would have recommended this:

Better? :moon:

Much better! A limited edition that's part of your personal collection?

I just recently had to make this decision. I chose a Glock 22. 40.cal I do alot of backcountry hiking and backpacking so the bigger caliber would help when it's just the wife and me on the trail an some big game decides it doesn't want me around.

I Chose the glock because it's light weight, reliable, accurate, single action, (tons of modifications available to make it perfect for your situation), I like the 22 model over the 27 (27 being the mini .40 cal) because the larger pistol grip gave me much firmer control of the gun as well the 22 holds 15 +1 and can easily be modified to carry 17 +1 .40 cal rounds.

The lack of safety switch certainly concerned me but all it all I wanted a personal defense gun that was always ready to do what i needed. With proper gun safety practice its not a big deal, also the gun has a trigger safety on it so you can't unintentionally pull the trigger.

I LOVE the sig's there great guns also expensive and as I new this gun would be in the truck I didn't want the risk of having my 8-900 dollar gun stolen. I looked at the S&W M&P .40 cal and the glock 22 the S&W was cheaper but I felt the Glock was a better purchase. Both were used (didnt want a brand new gun another risk of getting stolen) I wound up going with the Glock 22 it was a retired police training handgun so I new it was cared for properly also didnt show signs of being abused or used very much at all got the gun for half of MSRP of a new Glock 22 and love it! came with night sights and theres so many mods available to customize it to your liking!

I def. like the Glock 19, and the glock 26 (both 9mm) the 26 is the compact model (more easily concealed if you go that rout). Which ever gun you go with find a range and start getting comfortable with the gun shoot 100 rounds or better through it if it's a brand new gun to get it broken in good. practice unholstering it and quick draw's. all it all don't hesitate to take a class either. I grew up around guns thinking i knew everything learned more in 8hrs about guns than i had in 15 years or so of using them.

just my $.02 happy shopping and definitely grab it while you can!

I agree with the bigger caliber for taking down big game. I have a feeling when the kiddos are a little more grown up and we do more outdoor things like hiking, biking, etc. I will have to upgrade to a bigger caliber. For now, I feel that a 9mm will suffice. Not too many big game wondering into my house, except for my wife :reddance: lol so glad she doesn't read this site, and if she started to I would edit this post lmao

Good advice. Courses and the range are great for technical training. In addition, I would highly recommend that some of you guys new to guns get a group of your friends together, pick up a few airsoft hand guns, put on some protective paintball/airsoft headgear and go at it on a private lot - preferably on your property.

My friends and I upgraded the sh!t out of our Tokyo Marui's. We would use glass BBs, (biovals), and wear thin shirts, (underarmour) so that we would feel every shot - the rounds would break skin. Nothing gets your heart pounding more than when you are hunted. You will learn how to use a basic semiautomatic handgun. The airsoft guns these days have everything down from properly chambering your first round/single action/double action/decocker and a simulated recoil. You will learn how to reload your weapon fast and what it means to be prepared. You will learn basic strategy and how to be safe.

Most importantly, you will learn how you react in a stressful situation, on your property at that.

Be safe. Have fun.

That actually sounds really fun, yet very beneficial in the long run, good idea! Hmmmm

I'm an NRA certified instructor, NRA range safety officer, and IDPA safety officer.

The Glock 19 is a good choice, even for a beginner. The XD is fine, but is in no way safer than a Glock. And I certainly do not recommend a DA/SA semi-auto like a Beretta.

.357 SIG? No thanks, and absolutely not a good choice for a beginner. First, .357 SIG is stupidly expensive and often hard to find. Second, it has a very large flash and loud report -- beginners already have a hard enough time not flinching and .357 SIG is just going to exacerbate that. For reloaders, .357 SIG just sucks compared to a straight-walled pistol cartridge like 9mm or 45 ACP.

Get a 9mm, buy a lot of ammo, take more classes, and practice a lot.

Thanks for the info, sounds like practice practice practice is the common suggestion, and I will be sure to do it.

I'll go with recommendations of people like John Farnam, the USSS, Texas DPS and many, many more.

Yes, the 357Sig is louder, it's basically got the same specs as a 357 Magnum round. That's why you practice so you become used to it. Once you're used to the round the louder report works in the favor of the shooter by intimidating the assailant(s). Yes it costs more but what is your life worth? The 357Sig just doesn't have any feed problems like the 9mm or any straight walled case does and if I every have to fire my carry weapon in anger I want every advantage possible regardless of cost. Yes, it's a little tricky to reload but it does not suck unless you are a sloppy reloader. Besides, if you talk to a lawyer they will advise you to not use reloads for carry as it can be used against you in the ensuing legal issues you are going to have to address. I only use reloads for practice shooting and haven't had any problems after over 10 yrs and at least 10K rounds.

Interesting about the reloads while carrying and legal issues, looks like I'll just keep reloads in the 4R, and home.

For pocket guns, I really enjoy my Kahr PM9 with Crimson Trace Laser Guard and my Sig P238. They are both easily concealed in a pocket or on the waistband. Both are a bit pricey, but nice guns.

You can't go wrong with a Glock as many have mentioned. When people say they do not have a safety, they are referring to an external safety. Glocks do have internal safeties so they are not going to magically go off. Learn handgun discipline and follow the safety rules, then they will never go off when you don't want them to.

I think I got that misconception of guns magically going off from movies when I was younger lol

also if you are extremely worried about it not having a safety glock makes a manual safety attachment you can purchase and install.

I know glock is highly customizable, didn't know they had that option. Probably will go without tho, but thanks for the info

 

[whodat]

I'm just being stubborn about not buying a glock and I'm not sure why.

My coworker hates glocks with a passion for some reason. He can't get pass the look of a glock, he's a hipster by the way not saying that you are in any way though

So glad I stumbled upon this thread today. I am going to a gun show on Saturday for my first gun purchase and to take a CCW course. I have been researhcing for some time now and just can't decide G19, 23, 26 or 27.

Primary use for the gun will be mostly home defense and once I can ease my wife into being more comfortable around guns it will be my daily carry. My wife has always been 100% against having any fire arms in the house, but has had a change in heart with the most recent shootings. I think she just finally dropped the "that won't/can't happen to me" attitude and realizes that it could happen to anyone. God forbid we should ever have to defend ourselves...but being prepared is becoming more and more important these days if not necessary!

Anyway...I have been given the green light from the boss for one and only one gun. We are both going to put time/money into courses and range time. I realize I probably can't go wrong with any of the above selections, but any input is appreciated.

My wife is very supportive too, she wants the extra protection for the kiddos. Plus she's always wanted to get into recreational shooting.

Solid list from Stifler. I would most def toss-in the Springfield XD Compact .45 (a little beastly off the bat but this frame handles the .45 ACP nicely believe it or not - STOPPING power is a good thing of course) and maybe Glock 23 vs 19. Certainly depends on what fits and feels best to YOU.

Oh, of course for HOME defense, the only choice IMHO is either the Mossberg 500 series or Remington 870 (either one with the short 18" barrels). Get the right loads to give you the highest terminal energy, pattern density and stopping power and a reduced chance of over-penetration. Big topic, as you might imagine.

A good shotty with an 18" barrel is 100% THE right tool for home defense. Just the sound of the pump action is known to scare-off the bad guys. Hope you never need to find-out. So many reasons to go shotgun over handgun for HD though. Just my .02 of course.

A shotgun has definitely crossed my mind, but I didn't mention I have 2 dogs, both lab mixes, I honestly think both were mixed with pits. Both very good guard dogs. Hopefully their barks will scare an intruder. But if the intruder still comes in, I know my dogs will attack them, so a shotgun will probably hit my dogs too, and I can't do that to my buddies. I think I'll keep a shotgun as a back up just in case the bas**** kills my dogs first..bas****. But from what I've been reading, a shotgun is the ideal weapon for home self-defense, but definitely a shorter barrel to maneuver around corners and hallways better.

The above can happen with ANY pistol and caliber. I shot an Al Q'aida guy four times with a M-4 (223/5.56) center mass and he still kept coming at me. Another deployment had to use the Beretta M-9 with 9mm NATO on a booger eater, one shot-one KIA. Now, if you manage to get a head shot (doubtful) with almost any caliber you'll stop MOST humans immediately. All of my friends that poo poo the 9mm round have been offered this bet:

I get my Sig 228, and with just ONE (1) round of Speer Gold Dot, 124 grain, JHP +P in the gun, and allow me to shoot them center mass. Then we see if the 9mm can stop a human. Nobody has ever taken the bet.

The 9mm is NOT the largest pistol round out there, but it is effective if aimed properly and using the right ammo. Remember, a well placed shot with a non-premium round is better than a peripheral hit with a premium bullet.

Here's some data/reviews on the 9mm...

Speer Gold Dot Ammunition, Ordnance Gelatin Calibration, Anatomically Correct Targets

9 mm 124 gr testing - M4Carbine.net Forums

Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124 gr +P - YouTube

Speer Gold Dot 9mm +P 124 gr JHP SIM-TEST w/denim - YouTube

Dave Spaulding on The Speer Gold Dot | Handgun Combatives

Nice! Now that's a good way to end the debate on stopping power lol

+9mm is good for extra shots per clip
and easily resupplied off bodies in a SHTF situation

i have two 9mm and when i buy another it will probably be another 9mm

keep the rifle for going through multiple zombies (crowd situation)

Oh, I will always be prepared for zombies, a crossbow, and katana are on my shortlist (walking dead anyone? )

As a firearms Instructor certified with the WA St. Criminal Justice training Commission, we see a lot of guns in many caliburs and a lot of rounds down range. The short of it- buy a quality 9mm and train. Plenty of stopping power, higher capacity and an inherently more reliable cartridge . The 9mm has a tapered case making it extremely feed reliable.

Suggestions that we see work and are the choices by the folks that forget far more than I know:

All 9mm:
Glock 19/17
s&W M&P full size
Sig M11, M12
Beretta M9


Stay safe and good luck!
MB

Thanks for the info, once again, I see the same recommendations again and again (here and other websites), making my choice a lot easier.

You have to use "enough" gun and 9mm qualifies. Beyond that, the key is hitting your target in the right place. Practice practice practice. I've hit deer with many different calibers and as long as it's on-target, I'll be damned if either the deer or I could tell the difference.

You dropped a deer with a 9mm handgun before?

The caliber debate will live on for ever.
Is 9mm big enough?
Is the .45 hard to handle?
Blah blah blah.

Get a caliber that you can handle and get back on target after the first shot. Also something that you don't anticipate the recoil and always pull the shot.

Sorry to say but you probably won't be buying just one gun in your life.
Start with a 9mm. Easy to handle and easy to get back on target. Not much recoil so there is nothing to brace yourself for. Least expensive (other than 22LR) to shoot. One of the easiest to find ammo. The 9mm is going to stop an intruder (with proper shot placement). A .22 will take someone down with proper placement.

Someone mentioned that a gun doesn't need to feel comfortable. I disagree. Some of the guns that I have used, don't fit my hand. Glocks are great guns and people love them. They feel like a 2x4 in my hand. I shoot a M&P9.

Also, key points, learn you gun. Take some safety clinics. Do dry fire drills. Be familiar with your weapon. Find somewhere that will teach live fire drills too. Standing in front of a static target is fine but IF you need your gun, it won't be standing still and your adrenalin will be pumping.

ALWAYS remember the big three rules:
Always assume that the gun is loaded (check and check again).
Never point the gun at anything you don't want to destroy.
Never put your finger on the trigger till you are ready to destroy your target.

Yup, I know those 3 rules from my research. Thanks for the refresher. And I think you're right, I have a feeling I won't be buying just one gun for the rest of my life. There's a lot to learn, but it'll be a fun and beneficial process. Will take more classes as they are offered.

 

[whodat]

What ever you end up with, LOCK IT UP when it's not in your presence.

Yes, I talked to a customer of mine that is a gun instructor, and that's one of the things he highly recommends, he tells me he can not believe the stupid things people do. lol

None of your points hold water.

Of course more agencies use something other than 357Sig, they've been using them forever. The 357Sig is the most changed to caliber. I wonder why, is it the cost or performance?

2nd by your logic the OP should start with .22 then move to .380. The 357Sig is just as easy to shoot as the 9mm.

Your right performance doesn't matter if he can't hit the target but what does that have to do with his ability to hit the target, a miss is a miss regardless of if it's a 9mm or 357Sig. That's why you practice. So what if it costs more. As I mentioned before, what's your life worth?

I've never been in a gun shop that didn't carry 357Sig.

I respect that question "what is your life worth?" I also asked myself that question when I started looking at handguns, more particularly, what is my family's life worth. Do I buy the more expensive weapons, more expensive ammo, or I buy the cheaper weapons, and cheaper ammo? When it comes down to it, it is my family's life that I'm protecting, and they are worth everything to me in the world. But at the same time, if I'm going to spend top dollar to protect their life from a "possible" threat, I will be taking away money to give them a "life". If I had a lot of money, I would definitely be going more high end, but I am not rich, but I will spend money to buy a reasonably priced pistol, practice with semi-cheap ammo, and throw in expensive ammo at the range also to compare the difference in terms of performance, and keep the expensive ammo for carrying and home self defense. I know trouble comes to you no matter how hard you avoid them, but I respectfully feel a 9mm Glock 19, with plenty of practice that won't break the bank, will be adequate for me. And hopefully after the pregnancy, with practice my wife would become proficient enough to help me out in stress situations.

Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. Much appreciated! :hatsoff:

 

[BD-430]

I think it's funny when I hear people say to be cautious with a Glock since it doesn't have a safety. They actually have 2 internal safeties, a trigger safety and will not fire unless you pull the trigger! People say revolvers are the safest - How many safeties are on a revolver???

The only safety concern with any modern handgun in my opinion is with the user. Anyone planning to own a handgun, whether for concealed carry or home defense, should get good training and practice, practice, practice. You should know your weapon and be confident with it and how it operates. A Glock is no less safe than any other handgun.

Basic Safety guidelines:
1) If you ALWAYS handle any handgun as if it's loaded, even when it's not.
2) Don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy
3) Don't put your finger on the trigger until you sights are on your target and you are ready to fire.
4) Make sure of what's between you and the target and what's behind the target, and you will be fine.
5) Safely store your gun when not under your control.

A Glock (or any modern handgun) will not go off unless the operator pulls the trigger. Many Glock owners will argue that having an external safety COULD possibly be unsafe to the operator, because it's something else you will have to remember if ever faced with a very stressful situation (just an opinion). In a life and death situation, your fine motor skills are the first senses you will loose, and if you can't quickly get a safety off, you could end up getting shot. Like I said before, not having an external safety is not a problem if you fallow the rules above, which should become instinct with training and practice.

I've owned a lot of hand guns, and most I've sold and traded for Glocks. I am a huge fan of the reliability and simplicity of Glocks. In my opinion, from a reliability standpoint, Glocks are 2nd in reliability only to revolvers (which are limited in capacity, harder to reload, etc.).

I currently own the following Glocks: G17 Gen4 (my competition gun), G19, G23 Gen4, G27, and G30SF (main home defense gun). My primary carry guns are the G23 and G27. If I want to go smaller, I slip my Kahr M9 in my pocket with a good pocket holster.

Good luck with your decision, but be careful - Glocks are contagious. You'll never be happy with just one! :banana:

 

[mikebontoft]

I don't mind the Glocks... I guess I don't like em cause um. hmm. why do I not like them? damn. m&p shield a pocket gun? I don't want that small then. perhaps a look into Glock and the mp9c.

now... if only my local classifieds would allow gun listings again but NO... someone had to shoot up a school :I


Also: .17 HMR

/thread

 

[limamike]

None of your points hold water.

Of course more agencies use something other than 357Sig, they've been using them forever. The 357Sig is the most changed to caliber. I wonder why, is it the cost or performance?

2nd by your logic the OP should start with .22 then move to .380. The 357Sig is just as easy to shoot as the 9mm.

Your right performance doesn't matter if he can't hit the target but what does that have to do with his ability to hit the target, a miss is a miss regardless of if it's a 9mm or 357Sig. That's why you practice. So what if it costs more. As I mentioned before, what's your life worth?

I've never been in a gun shop that didn't carry 357Sig.

I'm friends with (recently retired) SSA Buford Boone who used to run the FBI Ballistic Research Facility, and in my last job, I did quite a bit of research on ballistics: terminal, exterior, and interior. I'm not going to get into an argument about ballistics on the Internet because that's just silly, but I will tell you that I know for a fact that the .357, overall, is not a superior performing caliber in terms of terminal ballistics compared to the .40 or even 9mm. This is backed up with hundreds of data points using gelatin, live tissue, cadavers, high speed photography, and many bullets, bolts, and barrels. As a matter of fact, SSA Boone had concluded just before he retired that there is a superior performing 9mm that he believes all LEOs should carry, but the .40cal bonded ammunition he chose for the FBI is currently the "second best" in terms of an everyday carry for LEOs. His personal opinion is that all LEOs should carry rifles, but he was never able to conquer the politics of that one, and that's an entirely different discussion. You mentioned the USSS, and the day before SSA Boone retired I was in a meeting with him that was cut short because the USSS was coming to talk to him about his latest pistol cartridge research. The USSS relies heavily on the FBI's research, and the firearms industry at large for the latest developments. Nearly every year they do another down-select for a new rifle or a new bullet based on changing requirements and new research. They also don't have standardized ammunition across the entire Service like the FBI does across the Bureau. Anyway, what I know about ballistics is shallow compared to a lot of folks I know, but what I do know is that it's an ever-changing field with very few true experts, and the true experts that do exist in the field I happen to know personally or can get to with one or two degrees of separation. So, I can comfortably say that amongst themselves they will never say verifiably what the best bullet "period" - they always add the caveat, "for your circumstance and based on my experience, but...".

You could also get into the argument about which is better: fewer, larger misplaced holes; or more, smaller misplaced holes? Point is, there's no real sense arguing about it. I carry a G19 as my everyday carry. :driving:

 

[G8RB8_12SR5]

I think it's funny when I hear people say to be cautious with a Glock since it doesn't have a safety. They actually have 2 internal safeties, a trigger safety and will not fire unless you pull the trigger! People say revolvers are the safest - How many safeties are on a revolver???

The only safety concern with any modern handgun in my opinion is with the user. Anyone planning to own a handgun, whether for concealed carry or home defense, should get good training and practice, practice, practice. You should know your weapon and be confident with it and how it operates. A Glock is no less safe than any other handgun.

Basic Safety guidelines:
1) If you ALWAYS handle any handgun as if it's loaded, even when it's not.
2) Don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy
3) Don't put your finger on the trigger until you sights are on your target and you are ready to fire.
4) Make sure of what's between you and the target and what's behind the target, and you will be fine.
5) Safely store your gun when not under your control.

A Glock (or any modern handgun) will not go off unless the operator pulls the trigger. Many Glock owners will argue that having an external safety COULD possibly be unsafe to the operator, because it's something else you will have to remember if ever faced with a very stressful situation (just an opinion). In a life and death situation, your fine motor skills are the first senses you will loose, and if you can't quickly get a safety off, you could end up getting shot. Like I said before, not having an external safety is not a problem if you fallow the rules above, which should become instinct with training and practice.

I've owned a lot of hand guns, and most I've sold and traded for Glocks. I am a huge fan of the reliability and simplicity of Glocks. In my opinion, from a reliability standpoint, Glocks are 2nd in reliability only to revolvers (which are limited in capacity, harder to reload, etc.).

I currently own the following Glocks: G17 Gen4 (my competition gun), G19, G23 Gen4, G27, and G30SF (main home defense gun). My primary carry guns are the G23 and G27. If I want to go smaller, I slip my Kahr M9 in my pocket with a good pocket holster.

Good luck with your decision, but be careful - Glocks are contagious. You'll never be happy with just one! :banana:

These types of safeties also applies to the Sigs at least the P229

 

[TOYSTRY]

Sig P250C .45 Caliber. Solid weapon, just right for me. Not really a pocket gun, but one you can conceal on the body or mount somewhere. Good luck!

I have this in both the .40 and .45.....it's a good "inexpensive" gun but I still love my Sig P226. Tried and true, Navy Seals have been using it longer then I can remember in addition to many military branches as the weapon of choice.

As someone else mentioned, the best gun is the one that feels the best for you. A lot of inexperienced people buy based on "appearance"...but based on feel.

Crimson Trace is a nice feature offered on many guns (it's a built in laser for targeting).

Handgun with Built in Lasers

HTH

 

[TNRunner99]

I will tell you this about the 9mm round. My PD used to use the 9mm round. But after being used in several shootings, turds were being shot 10+ times and still not going down. These shots were coming from trained officers with a lot of range time (more than someone does with a paper target.) They had the medical examiner look at these cases and at bodies over time and do a study on what round would be the most effective. He came up with the .45 ACP.
They now carry a Sig P220 .45 ACP.
Just think about that situation out with your family and you need to use your gun to protect them.
Do you want to empty a 9mm mag and still need more, or do you want him stopped. Just my 2 cents.

 

[rebelbowtie]

Derdog your exact same story has been told but with .40 pistol ammo and taking 15 rounds to stop the guy and he only went down after taking a round to the head. Many argue that there is no good pistol round for self defense, only ones that are marginally better than others.

 

[Ryan1975]

What ever you end up with, LOCK IT UP when it's not in your presence.

First on topic post in this thread.

Where's the thread on the safe in the console for the 4tunner? That thing fit like a hove. I'd like to get one.

 

[Laubage]

I'm surprised that nobody is recommending the M&P9/M&P9c more. I've carried a Sig P229, Glock 19, Springfield EMP9 (1911 type), Glock 26, and a Kimber Aegis 9mm (1911 type) on my quest to find the perfect carry gun.

Here's my feedback:
Sig P229 9mm - Hate single action/double action, very reliable... I couldn't shoot it accurately though. Might have been bc it's my first pistol. EXTREMELY heavy for carry use. Nice ammo capacity.

Glock 19 - Didn't like the fact that there was no external safety. Google Glock accidental discharge. There's numerous stories of objects/people accidentally getting into their triggerguard and shooting themselves/friends. Nice ammo capacity and extremely reliable. I kept shooting left of my target for some reason. Great groups though.

Springfield EMP9 - Couldn't get the pistol to function reliably with hollow point ammo after sending it into Springfield twice. Excellent customer service though and I didn't have to pay a dime to send it in. Low ammo capacity. Extremely accurate.

Kimber Aegis 9mm - Great pistol! I almost regret trading this pistol off, but there was an offer I couldn't refuse. Shot accurately. It had a slim profile for carry and an external safety. It was a full size grip though which makes it tough to conceal. Low ammo capacity.

Glock 26 - Similar to Glock 19, but shorter. I didn't like that it was still the same width as the Glock 19/23. 12 rnd capacity was great for a handgun that size though. You'll have to learn to shoot without a pinky hold on the grip.

SW M&P9c - This is what I carry currently. It has a 12 round capacity, external safety and night sights. I can hit a human sized target out to 25 yards with probably 80% rate. The short barrel is not ideal for longer range engagements (ie active shooter in a mall). I might be able to hit someone 1/24 rounds I carry at 50 yards.

SW M&P shield - I haven't shot this yet, but it seems like an excellent concealed carry pistol for close range defensive scenarios. It's a single stack M&P9c, so it carries less ammo, but from what I hear, it's extremely concealable and we all know that the best pistol is the one you will carry every day. Try it out.

Random advice:
1) I wouldn't go lower than 9mm for carry
2) Make sure you can afford to buy lots of ammo after you buy the pistol. Any pistol is crap if you don't practice.
3) Don't get price gouged. The value of firearms/ammo has shot up 2-400% in the last month. It might be worth it to wait it out... if you believe we'll still have gun rights in 6 months.
4) I am glad that there are this many citizens exercising their right to protecting themselves on a t4r forum. Lets me know America is alive and well.

 

[mikebontoft]

^^ out of curiosity did you happen to see one of my posts where I mentioned those two? Appreciate your input since I was looking at those, especially the m&p9c.

Nah I guess it isn't totally on topic. sorry op.

 

[Gerdo]

Remember, if you don't know how to use your gun, it is useless. If you don't know how to use your gun properly, it's dangerous.

Get trained and practice.

I'm a fan of the M&P, M&Pc and the M&P Shield. The shield is a nice carry gun. Small enough but not so tiny that you can't hold onto it.

 

[mikebontoft]

made a new thread so I'll ask my questions there lol.

personally I wouldn't feel good about leaving my gun in the car.

 

[aspade]

Glocks and most Sigs do not have safeties, and there's good reason for that. In a stress situation where you have to very quickly shoot in defense, are you going to think about the safety? No, you are going to point and shoot. Experienced, professionals prefer to NOT have a safety. If you feel "safer" with a safety, then by all means get a pistol with one, but ensure that you train consistently in its use.

Experienced shooters practice enough to commit handling the gun to muscle memory which makes the manipulation of the safety reflexive and its presence (or absence) an operational moot point.

Glocks and DA Sigs weren't designed for experienced shooters. They were designed for the police and conscript market that is largely disinterested in pistol shooting (police: any shooting), extremely price conscious, and on the police side hadn't yet transitioned from revolvers which didn't have safeties either.

That isn't to say in any way that they're bad guns. But experienced shooters aren't why the safety isn't there.