Help me with some conjencture...

[xxaarraa]

Happy 4th gen owner (2008), 80k miles and countless smiles later, I am starting to get the itch for a newer truck. My main reasons for wanting a new truck are:

• The lazy V6 ain't cutting it for a built truck. I have skids, rock rails, 34" tires, light bar, roof box, front hitch etc. and with all the extra weight, performance is...let's say... ordinary, especially when I am towing my 4000 lb trailer with race bikes. I don't think the 4.7 V8 or even the newer 4.6 V8 would be much of an improvement sadly (that's another debate for another day), which makes me think the 4R isn't the platform for me anymore (so sad).
• Interior quality on my SR5 4th gen is pretty bad. I have dynamatted the interior and it's a little quieter, but overall, the plastics are so cheap.

So... I am in a huge dilemma about what to get next and could use some thoughts from you folks. My options are to keep my 2014 C7 and trade the 4R and spend ~30k on a 'new' truck (used 5th gen 4R?) or trade the C7 and the 4R together on a $60k truck.

I am considering:

• 2017 Ford Raptor with the 803 package. $61k MSRP. The 470 hp / 510 ft-lbs would make it easier to give up the sports car and go all-in on a single truck.
• 2012-2013 LX570. Same $60ish as the new Raptor. I wheel 4-5 times a year and do some overlanding, but I value everyday comfort and luxury over anything else really, so I would really like to get a nicer truck next time than the workman-like 4R. And with as much ground clearance as I have in the 4th gen, the open diffs never got in the way of the rock crawling and overlanding that I do, so I am not one to get hung up on a rear locker.
• 2012-2013 4R Trail Premium or 2012-2014 4R Limited.

Problem with options 2 & 3 would be that I'd have to put in $6-7k and a lot of energy to 'build' out the truck - lift kit, big tires, body mount chop, rock rails, etc. That's assuming the LX570 even has any aftermarket support to start with. Also, the LX570 is 6200 lbs before you build it out and would tip the scales at 7000 lbs when I am done with it. SEVEN THOUSAND LBS!!!!!!!!!!!! Which leads me to think that even the 5.7 would be pretty ordinary hauling that much weight. And I'd get 11-12 mpg. Geezuz Toyota.

The Raptor would be turnkey - start & go. Being brand new may help with any Ford build-quality issues that are bound to prop up.

Thoughts? Anyone going to smack me upside the head and tell me to keep the 4th gen?

 

[High_Country]

Oooohhh man. I hope you have thick skin. Can't imagine the replies you'll get. [emoji51]
If you're not happy with the V6 now, you probably won't enjoy the V6 in the 5th gen. Sounds like you've done your research there.
I'd personally stay away from the raptor (they ARE 'cool' trucks, but) as I couldn't live with the increased size / track width on a daily basis or when I'm 'overlanding'.
I've seen some really slick built up Tundras to stay with the Toyota theme and some really sweet GX460's and GX470. Pretty good aftermarket support.
Sounds like you have a really nice budget to work with and as such I wouldn't care too much about gas mileage.
About the only thing I could think of (turnkey) that might truly satisfy the off-road and sports car desires (while maintaining some semblance of reliability and luxury) would be a Mercedes G-wagen AMG. BUT...you ain't got that budget. ; )

 

[Scrubber3]

The 2017 raptor has yet to prove itself. Ford is having enough problems with the ecoboost with their"normal" vehicles. Plus, it's really wide, making any trail with trees cringe worthy. Id wait 3 years before buying the new gen raptor if you're dead set on one. That would give Ford a chance to hopefully work out any problems it may have.

Have you thought about getting a supercharger for the 4runner you have and maybe just repairing the interior? Freshen it up a bit?

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[philsey]

The 5th Gen is your best choice. Capable, reliable, plenty of aftermarket, known quantity, fixes all your problems. Power is a perceived problem only. Learn to drive it.

And why a used 5G? In your price range, you should be able to find a basic '16 SR5 for a good price.

 

[salong53]

If you're really itching for something new, the options you presented are a good start.

If it were me looking for a used vehicle, I'd look at the 100 series Land Cruisers. They're a little dated, and hold their value which is bad for a buyer, but they check the boxes for tow capability, reliability, aftermarket support, and luxury. You get to keep some money in the savings account that way for mods too.

If you're set on buying new, I'd go with a new 4Runner SR5 (actually, that's exactly what I did). You'll sacrifice some torque for towing, but you'll have the epitome of reliability and with some new tires, you'll have everything you need to go off road.

No matter what, throwing 34" duratracs on 20" wheels with a lift like you did on your 4th gen is gonna remove any sense of a luxurious ride.

 

[Quentin]

Have they fixed the payload issues on the new Raptor? There were versions of the previous gen that had as low as 900lbs payload which means that your 4K trailer leaves 500lbs in the cabin before you have overloaded it. Baja worthy suspension is a double edged sword if you want to haul literal asses rather than just figurative ass.


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[JakeKo]

Happy 4th gen owner (2008), 80k miles and countless smiles later, I am starting to get the itch for a newer truck. My main reasons for wanting a new truck are:

• The lazy V6 ain't cutting it for a built truck. I have skids, rock rails, 34" tires, light bar, roof box, front hitch etc. and with all the extra weight, performance is...let's say... ordinary, especially when I am towing my 4000 lb trailer with race bikes. I don't think the 4.7 V8 or even the newer 4.6 V8 would be much of an improvement sadly (that's another debate for another day), which makes me think the 4R isn't the platform for me anymore (so sad).
• Interior quality on my SR5 4th gen is pretty bad. I have dynamatted the interior and it's a little quieter, but overall, the previous owner and me both contributed to the interior being a bit ratty. And boy the plastics are so cheap.

So... I am in a huge dilemma about what to get next and could use some thoughts from you folks. My options are to keep my 2014 C7 and trade the 4R and spend ~30k on a 'new' truck (used 5th gen 4R?) or trade the C7 and the 4R together on a $60k truck.

I am considering:

• 2017 Ford Raptor with the 803 package. $61k MSRP. The 470 hp / 510 ft-lbs would make it easier to give up the sports car and go all-in on a single truck.
• 2012-2013 LX570. Same $60ish as the new Raptor. I wheel 4-5 times a year and do some overlanding, but I value everyday comfort and luxury over anything else really, so I would really like to get a nicer truck next time than the workman-like 4R. And with as much ground clearance as I have in the 4th gen, the open diffs never got in the way of the rock crawling and overlanding that I do, so I am not one to get hung up on a rear locker.
• 2012-2013 4R Trail Premium or 2012-2014 4R Limited.

Problem with options 2 & 3 would be that I'd have to put in $6-7k and a lot of energy to 'build' out the truck - lift kit, big tires, body mount chop, rock rails, etc. That's assuming the LX570 even has any aftermarket support to start with. Also, the LX570 is 6200 lbs before you build it out and would tip the scales at 7000 lbs when I am done with it. SEVEN THOUSAND LBS!!!!!!!!!!!! Which leads me to think that even the 5.7 would be pretty ordinary hauling that much weight. And I'd get 11-12 mpg. Geezuz Toyota.

The Raptor would be turnkey - start & go. Being brand new may help with any Ford build-quality issues that are bound to prop up.

Thoughts? Anyone going to smack me upside the head and tell me to keep the 4th gen?

Sounds like a Rapturd it is.

 

[wfo9]

I would be looking at one off these...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5JTPbz-wWvc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Won't be available until the spring, but should be fantastic for towing 5k... and the off-road capabilities out of the box will beat what you got... Plus killer mpg if you go for the diesel.

Other than that.. if you tow often.. just can't beat a full size truck.

I would never waste time or money on a LC... I can see why some people like them..., but a huge heavy out of date pig IHMO. I understand that statement will get some people all up in arms... but I've observed them carefully and just not impressed at all. The old 80s are great but talk about lack of power for towing....

Another good option would be just to keep the 4th gen (they are great) and buy a tow rig for daily....

 

[Vinsil]

How often are you towing that trailer?

Have you re-geared for the larger tires?

Since you have one of best sports cars made, I'd either looks at your real needs and go according. Off-road 4-5 times a year does not require larger tires, lift and armor. Unless your just after the look, that weight of the tires, armor and other stuff kills your towing ability, comfort and mileage. You can't have it all.

I'd say if you tow that trailer more than you off-road, buy a 1/2 ton truck and I don't mean a raptor. I'm talking a mid level or limited trim 1/2 ton in brand of flavor and enjoy the comfort and luxury as well as brakes and power to tow with. Limit your off-roading to stuff the truck can handle (put better tires on it and maybe some sliders to go a little farther) and you find all the things you want out of a vechile.

Your asking too much from a mid size SUV trying to have an overlanding rig, tow 4K lbs and expect luxury, power and fuel economy.


If you off-road more than you tow, I'd rent a full size truck a couple times a year and keep your nicely setup Runner. :hat:

 

[xxaarraa]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, appreciate everyone's input and ideas. A couple of things -

• I can't do the SR5 thing. Not again. My 4th gen is/was an SR5 and I went off and got leather seats from a limited, did aftermarket seat heaters, dynamatted the whole thing etc. I have always had nice/luxurious cars and cannot buy SR5 grade again and take it upmarket. Too much time and effort involved in that. Gotta be a limited, or at least a Trail Premium.
• Not much sense in getting a 3rd vehicle as a tow car. I know its asking for a lot, but if I already have a sports car that's not a daily driver, I need the truck to do everything else.
• I am not really interested in a half ton pickup. I had a really well built 09 Tacoma before the 4R, and while it was a good truck, you get way too little for your money. I hate caps on pickups and even then you have dust seal issues (I overland with several guys who have tundras/titans and they all have to deal with dust inside the bed). I realize the Raptor is a pickup and prone to the same issues too, but at least its a raptor and not an under powered half ton pickup.

I tow every summer, offroad each fall and winter. Put about 20k miles a year on the truck. I should have mentioned I got the 4th gen used, and it now has 132k.

Good suggestion to give Ford a year or two to work out kinks in their new Raptor. Maybe I'll try and get another year out of the 4R and then get a 2nd year Raptor or LX or whatever.

Now, if they announce a 6th gen 4R and bring back the V8 (5.7 not 4.6 though that's extremely unlikely), I'd be lining up to order one! But I think the 4R's days are numbered. Old school body on frame with a 5 speed auto and underpowered V6 isn't fit for the modern world we live in. It's pretty obvious really with the Highlander now costing much more than the 4R. A Highlander Hybrid Limited costs almost $50k!

BTW, this is what I'd have to give up to get a nicer truck.

 

[nb rob]

Get the Lexus.
the trim is excellent, and the sound-treatment is right up your ally.

I've seen a few landcruisers around Boston too

 

[salong53]

BTW, this is what I'd have to give up to get a nicer truck.

Now that I've seen the corvette, don't buy a nicer truck. Just put some HD rear springs on your 4runner and supercharge it, then enjoy the corvette. Make sure you have trailer brakes lol.

 

[CoolMax]

Just don't get rid of the 'vette...

 

[rjfowler]

2017 Ford Raptor with the 803 package. $61k MSRP. The 470 hp / 510 ft-lbs would make it easier to give up the sports car and go all-in on a single truck.

What is the 803 package? I don't see that in the Raptor configurator.

 

[JSparky]

The LX570 has some things that may make it more troublesome to lift, but its certainly possible. If it were me, and I was in this boat earlier this year, I'd look at the 200 series cruiser instead of the LX. You'll have to check ih8mud out but I'm pretty sure the LX has air bag suspension and some other electronics that would have to be addressed, while the 200 is just a straight lift. Total Chaos makes UCA's for them as well. Slee offroad in Colorado is an excellent resource as well.

'Fat Amy" from ih8mud and a Lexus team LX. That cruiser has a relatively "standard" lift whereas the LX has got some serious business going on. I'd seriously go spend some time behind then wheel.

 

[xxaarraa]

What is the 803 package? I don't see that in the Raptor configurator.

I meant the 802A package, sorry for the typo. It's basically everything and the kitchen sink - heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel, auto headlights, blind spot system, trailer assist camera, trailer brake controller, led lighting in bed, etc.

 

[xxaarraa]

The LX570 has some things that may make it more troublesome to lift, but its certainly possible. If it were me, and I was in this boat earlier this year, I'd look at the 200 series cruiser instead of the LX. You'll have to check ih8mud out but I'm pretty sure the LX has air bag suspension and some other electronics that would have to be addressed, while the 200 is just a straight lift. Total Chaos makes UCA's for them as well. Slee offroad in Colorado is an excellent resource as well.

'Fat Amy" from ih8mud and a Lexus team LX. That cruiser has a relatively "standard" lift whereas the LX has got some serious business going on. I'd seriously go spend some time behind then wheel.

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to do more research on ih8mud. Is there such a thing as riding around town nice and low and then hitting a button and raising the truck 2-3 inches when off-road? And does the Lexus air suspension do that for you? I wheel with several land rover guys and the lr3 / lr4 with heavy duty package can do that. There is also a hack they can do to the computer that lets them raise it more than the standard 2 inches. Without knowing too much about it, it strikes me as the best of both worlds. I'd probably buy a second set of wheels and mount duratracs or mud tires on those and put those on when I'm going wheeling and leave the passenger tires on for rest of the year and take the quiet and firm ride as well as mpg. Sounds too good to be true though?

I don't mind the complexity of an air suspension if it can accomplish that. As someone rightly pointed out earlier, coil spring lifts such as what I have in my 4th gen compromise the everyday handling quite a bit. And the OME springs start to creak and groan and make all kinds of noises that annoy me! Haha

 

[Friggin Idiot]

As someone who expects to find themselves in a similar situation in about 7 years, is there any reason the Sequoia didn't make the list of options?
Full frame SUV with V8 and there should be plenty out there for the Tundra which would fit the Sequoia as well.

 

[JSparky]

As someone who expects to find themselves in a similar situation in about 7 years, is there any reason the Sequoia didn't make the list of options?
Full frame SUV with V8 and there should be plenty out there for the Tundra which would fit the Sequoia as well.

Generally they suffer from more quality control issues and lack aftermarket support, but I've seen a few built up on the trail and they performed fine. The new Nissan Armada should be included in the comparison as well, it's essentially a re-badged Patrol.

 

[JSparky]

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to do more research on ih8mud. Is there such a thing as riding around town nice and low and then hitting a button and raising the truck 2-3 inches when off-road? And does the Lexus air suspension do that for you? I wheel with several land rover guys and the lr3 / lr4 with heavy duty package can do that. There is also a hack they can do to the computer that lets them raise it more than the standard 2 inches. Without knowing too much about it, it strikes me as the best of both worlds. I'd probably buy a second set of wheels and mount duratracs or mud tires on those and put those on when I'm going wheeling and leave the passenger tires on for rest of the year and take the quiet and firm ride as well as mpg. Sounds too good to be true though?

I don't mind the complexity of an air suspension if it can accomplish that. As someone rightly pointed out earlier, coil spring lifts such as what I have in my 4th gen compromise the everyday handling quite a bit. And the OME springs start to creak and groan and make all kinds of noises that annoy me! Haha

Got it, I was making as assumption that you didn't want adjustable suspension so I apologize (if you install aftermarket suspension the adjustable system can be troublesome). The LX does raise up to 3-inches, little bit of a different system than the rover's but achieves the goal. I've spent time behind the wheel of lr4's and cruisers and they're quite different vehicles, the cruiser/LX makes the rover feel like a jeep both in terms of size and handling.. it really depends on what you want out of it. If I had to choose one to drive across the country it'd be Toyota all the way, the cruisers/LX are supremely comfortable vehicles to drive. The only reason I ended up back with a 4Runner is cost, with the money saved I've been able to put together an entire 8x10 photography kit which made more sense for me at my point in life.

I know the rover guys have a product called the "johnson rod" that tricks the computer into maintaining an increased ride height at all times, allowing them to run bigger tires, however the suspension also has a tendency to deflate in the driveway overnight :wow: