Hola! Opinions - buy this Runner? (Pics)

[Roostabunny]

First post for me - been interested in classic Toyota 4x4s for a while. That said, my daily driver is an '81 Suzuki GS850. For years my wife's been bugging me to buy a second vehicle that the kids can fit in (and, honestly, even in Alabama, the winter mornings can get pretty cold).

[Edit: Side note, the GS Resources is an amazing forum, and my experience there led me to decide that I'd never buy another vehicle that didn't have a cult. )

So, in the middle of what I feared might be an unexpected engine rebuild on the cycle (Turns out it's the clutch, which is a lot easier. Parts are on the way), I ran across this dusty old runner at the local park & sell.

So, I'm looking for a rainy/cold day driver that'll carry more than one passenger, and I'd like to take it off road when I can. I'm an OK mechanic though I don't have a garage. I've kept the GS running for 7 years doing 99% of my work in a parking lot. Between me and the internet, on a classic Toyota like this I'd plan on doing anything short of an automatic trans rebuild. Course, I hope to just drive it for the time being.

So, what better place to get feedback than here?

Here's the facts...
'86, Automatic, SR5

Paper in the window says:
10K on rebuilt engine
New: Gas Tank
New: Fuel Pump
New: Fuel Filter
New: Pressure regulator
Fresh injectors

Tires are slightly different from stock, I think... 265/70R15, but don't look like anything special or off-road specific.

Looks like he's done some de-rusting or something underneath. The closeup of the front bumper will let you see what most of the suspension looks like with that semi-gloss black. Maybe pre-emptive rust converter or something. The metal looks solid, so I don't think it's hiding anything.

It hasn't been registered since 2010 according to the sticker on the plate.

He's asking $1800. If the AC works and there's nothing glaring about how it runs or drives, I though to make an offer of $1500, chalking that $300 up to replacing the munched rear bumper and... replacing the missing windshield wipers?

That's all I know at the moment. I'm meeting the seller (bringing a friend who's rebuilt a couple of 1st gen runners) after work today, so interested to hear about things to look/listen/feel for. Thanks!

 

[CRassett]

Clean looking Runner with VERY little rust on the body and undercarriage? Yes please. All day long. In my parts (minnesota) you dont find that. At all. Added Roof rack is kind of cool as long as it doesn't leak, looks like a headlight is needed and bumper as you stated. Parts are cheap for stock stuff, I say go for it. Or I will... Good luck!

 

[KidVermicious]

I don't see anything jumping out at me. It's a decent deal at $1500, though if you've got any 5 speeds for sale in your area I'd do that instead. The auto transmission behind the 22re is a leach.

 

[Roostabunny]

Clean looking Runner with VERY little rust on the body and undercarriage? Yes please. All day long. In my parts (minnesota) you dont find that. At all. Added Roof rack is kind of cool as long as it doesn't leak, looks like a headlight is needed and bumper as you stated. Parts are cheap for stock stuff, I say go for it. Or I will... Good luck!

I hear that. I grew up in New England and there's just no winning the battle against rust up there where they use salt. Can't beat the desert for keeping cars alive a long time, but with effort you stand in chance here in Alabama.

There's a front and rear bumper on CL right now for $150 go figure. Black, but hey, guess it matches the paint job the seller did on the wheels.

I almost referred to the seller as the PO. Apparently I'm hoping this deal works out.

 

[Roostabunny]

I don't see anything jumping out at me. It's a decent deal at $1500, though if you've got any 5 speeds for sale in your area I'd do that instead. The auto transmission behind the 22re is a leach.

Yeah, 5-speed and one year older would have been awesome. But nothing around drive-able in this price range. BTW, what do you mean by leach? Is that just about feel and power delivery?

I'm guessing it's old news to you, but I think it's possible to convert to a 5-speed. Saw one over at YotaTech, and he even got the manual off a 22R to fit his 22RE. So if I buy this one the plan will be to troll junkyards etc for the manual transmission and parts and keep 'em for the day the automatic gives me any trouble or whenever I have time.

But don't tell my wife I said that, after 7 years depending on a classic bike, she'd like the "car" I buy to be scheduled maintenance only for a few months.

Edit: BTW, speaking of one year older... I think you can put a solid axle on this model as well. Is that what people are referring to when they say "SAS"? Maybe Solid Axle Swap? So much new vocab.
Edit2: Don't tell my wife I said that either.
Edit3: Don't get the wrong impression about the Missus. She fully supported me selling my car and buying the bike years ago, and then supported me fixing up the bike and continuing to ride after a low-side fortunately left me with nothing worse than 4 broken ribs.

 

[KidVermicious]

Yeah, they rob power something fierce. Converting to a five speed is a fair amount of work, but it can be done. SAS is a solid axle swap, and is crazy common. I'd hold off on that, though. If you get to wheeling hard enough that you're breaking CV shafts and such, then an SAS might be for you. But the IFS is plenty sturdy for mild wheeling, and much better mannered on the pavement.

 

[Roostabunny]

Yeah, they rob power something fierce. Converting to a five speed is a fair amount of work, but it can be done. SAS is a solid axle swap, and is crazy common. I'd hold off on that, though. If you get to wheeling hard enough that you're breaking CV shafts and such, then an SAS might be for you. But the IFS is plenty sturdy for mild wheeling, and much better mannered on the pavement.

Awesome info, appreciate that!

BTW, the catalytic converter looks to have been cut out and replaced with some straight pipe. No smog test here in AL, so it won't prevent driving it around, but my instinct is to eventually install one.

Is this just a cheap-skate solution to a worn out CC?

 

[KidVermicious]

Is this just a cheap-skate solution to a worn out CC?

Or somebody thought they were getting more power.

 

[crash813]

Body and paint are in good condition for the $1500 price range. Looks like a clean start from the outside anyways but you still have to remember thats its nearly 30years old. Lots of maintenance items that most PO's don't take care of. Just know going in that things will break and things will need to be taken care of.

Right off the bat, I will almost guarantee the a/c does not work. 90% of the ones out there don't. The only ones I've seen that do are owners that take real good care of them and somewhere in the last 15 years, spent the money to convert over from R12.

The other gotcha on these are all the little plastic, rubber, and electrical parts. Most haven't survived 30years, junk yards have limited 1st gens and buying new parts from Toyota, if they have them, gets $$$. You need to be honest if you're the kind of guy that wants to fix things that are wrong or if you can live with stuff as long as it gets you there. Think door switches, window switches, plastic trim, door handles, rubber gaskets everywhere, etc.

Here's a quick list of things I've done or need to do in the 2 months I've owned mine, which was a little rougher than yours:

- rear wheel cylinders
- flush brake fluid
- new discs
- new tie rod ends
- timing belt (water pump, tensioner, thermostat)
- coolant flush
- flat rear leaf springs
- master window switch on drivers door
- climate control unit, broken hinge
- rear window ghosts
- leaking power steering pump
- torn cv boot
- flush tran fluid and change filter
- leaking valve covers
- plugs, wires
- clean TB
- replace intake manifold gasket
- pcv valve and lots of vacuum lines
- driver side mirror fell off (glass alone from Toyota is $45 :-o )
- intermittent starter (ignition switch issue, common problem)

I think thats most of the list anyways. Like I said, depends on if you're a do it right guy or a just keep it running guy. Just be honest with what you want and how much it will cost you. All of this is on a decent driving '89. Atleast $500 plus right there if you can do it yourself.

 

[fourwd1]

I would not trust an evaluation that "the frame looks good" just based on looking at the pics.
These trucks are infamous for rusty frames, and you can't tell just by looking at it (even in person), especially with a nice fresh coat of paint on it !! (What's that hiding?)

You have to go over the entire frame with a small hammer or something looking for bad spots. They rust from the inside out, so you don't notice it until its really bad.

 

[Roostabunny]

Body and paint are in good condition for the $1500 price range. Looks like a clean start from the outside anyways but you still have to remember thats its nearly 30years old. Lots of maintenance items that most PO's don't take care of. Just know going in that things will break and things will need to be taken care of.

Right off the bat, I will almost guarantee the a/c does not work. 90% of the ones out there don't. The only ones I've seen that do are owners that take real good care of them and somewhere in the last 15 years, spent the money to convert over from R12.

The other gotcha on these are all the little plastic, rubber, and electrical parts. Most haven't survived 30years, junk yards have limited 1st gens and buying new parts from Toyota, if they have them, gets $$$. You need to be honest if you're the kind of guy that wants to fix things that are wrong or if you can live with stuff as long as it gets you there. Think door switches, window switches, plastic trim, door handles, rubber gaskets everywhere, etc.

Here's a quick list of things I've done or need to do in the 2 months I've owned mine, which was a little rougher than yours:

- rear wheel cylinders
- flush brake fluid
- new discs
- new tie rod ends
- timing belt (water pump, tensioner, thermostat)
- coolant flush
- flat rear leaf springs
- master window switch on drivers door
- climate control unit, broken hinge
- rear window ghosts
- leaking power steering pump
- torn cv boot
- flush tran fluid and change filter
- leaking valve covers
- plugs, wires
- clean TB
- replace intake manifold gasket
- pcv valve and lots of vacuum lines
- driver side mirror fell off (glass alone from Toyota is $45 :-o )
- intermittent starter (ignition switch issue, common problem)

I think thats most of the list anyways. Like I said, depends on if you're a do it right guy or a just keep it running guy. Just be honest with what you want and how much it will cost you. All of this is on a decent driving '89. Atleast $500 plus right there if you can do it yourself.

Great list, Crash813, thanks! Really awesome info.

My daily driver is 5 years older than this rig, so, yeah, I know about 30-year-old plastic and electrics. Oh how I know.

Course, there's a lot more of both on a 4-wheeled vehicle, so it's a good point. The list looks manageable, but maybe a little more costy than I was counting on. He's asking $1800, and I figured to offer $1500 and spend the other $300 on a punch list like this. With ongoing needs, of course.

I'm a keep it going and make improvements slowly guy. On my bike I've made my own stainless brake lines, upgraded shocks and fork springs, and made a few other upgrades over the years (along with rebuilding carbs and calipers and all that required stuff), but I've put up with a weeping base gasket for years because I need the bike to get to work and I can't do a top-end rebuild over the weekend.

That said, the AC is a big deal to the Missus, who won't want me shuttling the kids without it in summer time. The fact that it's October might buy me some time, but it'd be better if it worked today. Fingers crossed, I'll know in 3 hours. And between now and then I'll try to get an idea what AC fixing will cost me. I may have friends that can help make it a DIY (with friends) job. But again, I'm borrowing trouble from tomorrow at this point. Hope springs eternal that I've got a 10%-er with working AC.

 

[Roostabunny]

I would not trust an evaluation that "the frame looks good" just based on looking at the pics.
These trucks are infamous for rusty frames, and you can't tell just by looking at it (even in person), especially with a nice fresh coat of paint on it !! (What's that hiding?)

You have to go over the entire frame with a small hammer or something looking for bad spots. They rust from the inside out, so you don't notice it until its really bad.

Good tip, Appreciate it! No AC would be inconvenient, rusted out frame would be way worse.

 

[nevada]

BTW, the catalytic converter looks to have been cut out and replaced with some straight pipe. No smog test here in AL, so it won't prevent driving it around, but my instinct is to eventually install one.

Is this just a cheap-skate solution to a worn out CC?

don't bother. its better off without.

Or somebody thought they were getting more power.

it does in fact help, albeit only just slightly.. plus it sounds better.

mine has been running without for atleast 10 years.

Right off the bat, I will almost guarantee the a/c does not work. 90% of the ones out there don't. The only ones I've seen that do are owners that take real good care of them and somewhere in the last 15 years, spent the money to convert over from R12.

while, this is probably true for most, mine still works great, and im still running R12.

 

[Roostabunny]

don't bother. its better off without.


it does in fact help, albeit only just slightly.. plus it sounds better.

mine has been running without for atleast 10 years.


while, this is probably true for most, mine still works great, and im still running R12.

OK, reason to hope.

Just gotta keep it all straight: Make sure the frame blows cold and bang on the AC with a little hammer.

 

[fourwd1]

Just gotta keep it all straight: Make sure the frame blows cold and bang on the AC with a little hammer.

That's it. And I'd the AC doesn't work, use a bigger hammer !

 

[KidVermicious]

don't bother. its better off without.


it does in fact help, albeit only just slightly.. plus it sounds better.

Not to start a fight, but all of those assertions are debatable . There's definitely nothing better about what a cat-less truck does to the air, I doubt you could detect any change on the dyno after removing it, and I personally think a 4banger like the 22RE with a straight pipe or cat-less exhaust sounds like crap. His neighbors probably think so too.

eace:

Run the cat, Roosta. Even if you don't have emissions testing, you're probably required by law to have one, and you'll be doing everybody else a favor anyway.

 

[Roostabunny]

OK fellas, here's the report...

Bottom line, I'm leaning toward walking away from this one. I'm just feeling like it's not a good fit for some of my primary requirements

1.) Solid, reliable, off-road capable truck at a great price (check)
2.) Can work for my commute on day 1 (questionable)
3.) OK for occasional kid shuttling (questionable)

Details below.

First of all, the seller seemed like a stand-up guy. Loves Toyotas, and is currently working on an '85 Runner (5-speed, solid front axle. Of course, he keeps that one for himself. :moping: ) I'll certainly hold on to his number as a local parts contact.

Overall - the truck was solid, I'm not sure it's really an SR5, but I forgot to ask him about that. Main reasons being 1.) No SR5 badge 2.) No AC The mounting of the roof rack was sketchy but an easy fix, and there was an extra hole or two in the topper. One morning with a trip to ACE hardware would have had that rack perfect. The rear gate window worked fine - interior button AND with the keyhole.

"Wait... did he just say no AC? As not broken, but just not there at all??" Yupper. If I'd known what I was looking for before yesterday I would have known that up front, but oh well. So, I guess you could say that the AC on this model "works as designed".

I had my ball peen in the back of my borrowed ride but even though I got there early, I was hesitant to have the guy walk up while I was tapping on the frame of his truck with that. So I snagged a 14mm wrench instead. I didn't check every inch, but the frame felt, looked and sounded solid. Apparently the plentiful fresh underside paint happened when he replaced the gas tank. He has it jacked up on one side, didn't fancy getting dirt in his eyes constantly (the rig has clearly seen some mud) so he scrubbed and pressure washed and degreased the frame and underbody. At that point he said "what the heck" and just put a coat of satin black on there.

The reason for the new tank/press reg/injectors was that it'd sat for a while and the previous owner (to the seller) couldn't get it started. The seller said he was estimating on the 10K with the rebuilt engine, but knew the PO well and thought it was about right. The seller said he paid $800 for it in its not starting condition.

It started up with no complaints (after sitting at least a couple of weeks). The valves were bit louder than ideal, and the seller said he hadn't touched them and they could probably use an adjustment. The Check Engine light was on, but with the CC missing that's to be expected - no real data there, except that the check engine light works.

It got more interesting when I pressed the brake pedal. First, it went most of the way to the floor, and second, it set the idle to hunting something fierce. Seller said he thought it needed a new master cylinder, and looking at it, I tend to agree. So that would have been project #1 in the roadworthy-ness department.

I drove it down a parkway a mile or two, and at the point the Automatic transmission reared its ugly head. First off, now I understand first-hand what KidV meant by "leach", and second, this particular example adds insult to injury by having a marked tendency to skip 2nd gear and go straight to 3rd. Mashing the accelerator brings a downshift, but that's annoying, and overall it felt like I'd need about 1.5 miles of runway to get up to freeway speed.

He had done a drain and fill on the transmission, but it hadn't made this issue any better. I didn't play with the power mode button - wonder if that would have made a difference in the symptoms. Anyway, if it's electronics (solenoids) I might have a shot at it, but buying an Automatic with existing transmission problems sounds like a real potential headache.

Speaking of freeway speed, I need to drive my friend's 1st Gen, because I have nothing similar to compare with, but the rig felt barely stable at 50-60 mph. I might be the wider tires, and might just be the way these rigs drive, but I need some perspective and my buddy had to leave before I drove it.

I didn't engage the 4 wheel drive. Which was dumb. :doh: He said it worked great, but if I decide I want it, I'll try that before I make an offer.

So, I could live without AC, and the rest of the issues (even the master cylinder) could just be fun projects, but that tranny (being an automatic and having an existing issue) gives me pause because I need the truck I buy to be a driver from day 1. Or at least from day 7.

If I change my mind I'll come back to this thread, meantime I'm still in the market and being realistic about it. I may not find the right one for under $2k and I'm prepared to pay more for the right one. Just needed something to bust me out of the "I only have a bike" mindset.

Big thank you, too for the feedback and tips! Great intro to this forum - confirmed my hopes for finding a good cult around this truck.

 

[nevada]

good choice.

it sounds like its just not the right vehicle for YOU.


but, just an FYI, not having a cat wont throw the CEL.
so there is still something else going on there. likely an 02 sensor, since those systems are very basic...
so, if a visual inspection of the manifold/header doesn't show anything, I/E 02 sensor missing/damaged/unplugged, you would have to pull the code to know for sure.

 

[KidVermicious]

good choice.

it sounds like its just not the right vehicle for YOU.


but, just an FYI, not having a cat wont throw the CEL.
so there is still something else going on there. likely an 02 sensor, since those systems are very basic...
so, if a visual inspection of the manifold/header doesn't show anything, I/E 02 sensor missing/damaged/unplugged, you would have to pull the code to know for sure.

Yup. On the '86, the only O2 sensor is on the manifold, the computer doesn't know or care if there's a cat. If you decide to go back and look at that truck again, google up on how to pull the engine codes so you know what that check engine light really is.

 

[Roostabunny]

good choice.

it sounds like its just not the right vehicle for YOU.


but, just an FYI, not having a cat wont throw the CEL.
so there is still something else going on there. likely an 02 sensor, since those systems are very basic...
so, if a visual inspection of the manifold/header doesn't show anything, I/E 02 sensor missing/damaged/unplugged, you would have to pull the code to know for sure.

Yup. Maybe in a couple of years if we have a house and a garage (oh dare to dream) and cash for a project vehicle (so I could swap in a 5-speed and all that), but today, no.

Good info about the CEL, thanks! So there's something else going on. And I let the seller off the hook because of the missing CC. hwell:

Yup. On the '86, the only O2 sensor is on the manifold, the computer doesn't know or care if there's a cat. If you decide to go back and look at that truck again, google up on how to pull the engine codes so you know what that check engine light really is.

OK cool. I have an OBD3 bluetooth dealie for my wife's 2007 Pilot (I use Torque Pro on my phone) but it's not quite so luxurious on an '86. At least it has trouble codes. No matter how many times I've asked my bike, it won't tell me what's wrong - not with letters or numbers anyway.

Thanks again fellas!