How common is the Pink Milkshake?

[speedgoat]

So I've read all about the pink milkshake but how common of a failure is this really? Does it just happen to a handful of trucks that we keep hearing about or is this one of those things that will eventually happen to a large majority of T4R's once they start getting to high miles on original radiators?

My truck is a 2000 limited with 138K miles. I'm having a hard time bringing myself to pay for replacement of a part this isn't broken. The truck is amazingly clean inside and out. Engine bay and undercarriage clean enough to eat off of. Not a speck of rust anywhere. Should I really assume that the inside of the radiator is any different?

Thanks for your comments!

 

[theizzardking]

dunno, we'd have to take a large sampling from our area in the pnw and find this out, i'm at 230k and no issues what so ever, my ride has been well maintained from 1999 as well though and at this point i'm not worried about it.

 

[badattitude]

yes, just do it. I had it happen after procrastinating for a year. Mine happened at 116,000 miles and it always had Toyota red coolant in it. The koyo A1998 is about $150 and it is a pretty easy job. I had the dealer do it for about $200 in labor. but I think I could have done it myself.

Other option is to install a seprate trans cooler and bypass the radiator altogether.

 

[brian4t]

This is interesting. Some go 115K another goes over 200K. I'm willing to bet Northern States and salty roads speed up this issue. I notice your from WI, this would make more sense.

Add,

And the difference between 115 and 200K is huge. Either it's related to the location of the vehicle or Toyota switched vendors or something else. Either way something is not adding up.

 

[badattitude]

Very salty roads all winter here. However, the corrosion occurs inside the radiator so IDK? I have read more stories about it happening on 1998 and 1999 4runners. Don't recall seeing a lot of 2001 and 2002 with the proplem.

 

[Nelsonmd]

Ok, you are nit picking a little too much. This issue is a very latent failure with a low percentage of failure to begin with. 100k, 200k, the 10 or so confirmed cases on this forum is not near enough to make any kind of judgement on whether toyota changed vendors, or any factor like that is actually a cause.

If you want to do some preventive maintenance, then just install a $60 external tranny cooler (you don't need the $120 replacement radiator). There really isn't anything here to "add up". It was a poor design that sometimes fails prematurely, and it is a $60 fix. Take it or leave it.

OP, is $60 too much to spend? If you have no corrosion on the rest of the vehicle, then yeah, that might be a good sign, and if the coolant has been replaced with factory coolant regularly, that is probably also a good sign, but this is a tough thing to read exactly. You will be much better off just deciding what you want to do and do it, not worrying so much if it is absolutely necessary, or if you are endangering your tranny by not.

I'd just do it unless you really can't afford the $60. To me, it's worthwhile insurance, but it may not be for everyone.

 

[Hepar]

Very salty roads all winter here. However, the corrosion occurs inside the radiator so IDK? I have read more stories about it happening on 1998 and 1999 4runners. Don't recall seeing a lot of 2001 and 2002 with the proplem.

I've actually been curious if it was more year specific. Anyone with an 01-02 who's had the milkshake?

 

[brian4t]

Ok, you are nit picking a little too much. This issue is a very latent failure with a low percentage of failure to begin with. 100k, 200k, the 10 or so confirmed cases on this forum is not near enough to make any kind of judgement on whether toyota changed vendors, or any factor like that is actually a cause.

If you want to do some preventive maintenance, then just install a $60 external tranny cooler (you don't need the $120 replacement radiator). There really isn't anything here to "add up". It was a poor design that sometimes fails prematurely, and it is a $60 fix. Take it or leave it.

Hmm,

Don't mean to be nit picking but this subject seems to be the sole major issue that 'some' 3rd gens have from what I've read. If what you say is true then failure would almost assuredly be caused by an external factor and not the original part itself. If I'm 'nit picking' it's simply becuase the notion of replacing my transmission and radiator at the same time makes me what to chug a bottle of pepto. I understand, replace the radiator or add the cooler, this is just friendly conversation. If talking about hypothesizing, and trying to narrowing it down to year or parts or environment is nit picking so be it. The chances anyone just figuring this out over few pints is absurd, but it's still fun to engage in converstation.

 

[SCRunner12]

$60 and 2 hours of your time and you won't have to worry about it again. Compared to potentially ruining your transmission and spending 2-3k. Seems like a no brainer to me. I would just get one and not worry anymore. Just look at it as not going out to dinner 2-3 times in the month. It will pay for itself really quick.

 

[Nelsonmd]

Hmm,

Don't mean to be nit picking but this subject seems to be the sole major issue that 'some' 3rd gens have from what I've read. If what you say is true then failure would almost assuredly be caused by an external factor and not the original part itself. If I'm 'nit picking' it's simply becuase the notion of replacing my transmission and radiator at the same time makes me what to chug a bottle of pepto. I understand, replace the radiator or add the cooler, this is just friendly conversation. If talking about hypothesizing, and trying to narrowing it down to year or parts or environment is nit picking so be it. The chances anyone just figuring this out over few pints is absurd, but it's still fun to engage in converstation.

I meant trying to determine failure rate and contributing factors from a statistically insignificant number of confirmed cases is nit picking. Not trying to insult or prevent productive discussion, just trying to reel it back to reality a bit. You asserted that the difference between 115k and 200k miles before failure is statistically significant, therefore there must be a design/material difference or a location difference. I said that the mileage difference you mentioned doesn't support either of those claims. That's it.

And my point was that yes, paying $60 to 100% PREVENT having to replace the tranny and rad in the future is totally worth it (to me at least). If money is very very tight, then that might not be the conclusion.

And it is an issue with the original design. If the original design can't meet the intended use, then it is a design problem, not an intended use problem. The corrosion causing the failure is on the inside, so that suggests external environment has nothing to do with it, it is a design issue of material compatibility or the like. That said, external corrosive exposure could have an effect as well, you just wont' catch me saying the evidence suggest this, cause it doesn't (at least not yet).

Someone posted a while back some pics from them tearing open their failed radiator. It showed all the corrosion inside and some details of the failure mode. THAT is evidence you could potentially make a theory from (though you'd need to see some other examples of it to make sure it wasn't just a fluke). I wish I had it bookmarked, because it was pretty interesting. Either way, it doesn't really help the OP; he still has to make the decision on whether to drop the money on the fix.

 

[theizzardking]

i'll just put it like this,

is it worth the $60 and time to install? yes

q: will my car catch fire burn to the ground if i don't do this tomorrow?
a: probably not, but who knows.

q: is there any given mileage or time that i should really get this done at?
a: nope, too many factors due to environment, maintenance,driving style and a score of other things that could potentially contribute. could be 50k could be 350k...

q: are there warning signs this maybe failing?
a: yes, sediment in your coolant,loss of coolant,air in the coolant system i.e. bubbles/froth ect. are some of the first warning signs. further ones would be grit in the trans fluid and a bad smell and color to the trans fluid it's self.

q: would you call this an pandemic
a: no, not really considering the production numbers,number of forum users and number of reported cases in this little fish bowl we call the forum it would seem it's something that happens but not what i would call a "common problem" meaning maybe less then 10% -15% of our members have had this problem, but it does happen and with regularity if that makes any sense. i know i'm splitting hairs now, but common to me means more like 40% of people have the problem and i don;t feel that it's any where near that bad.





that's my view on it and feel free to add anything i missed, and heck i could even be wrong on that last one, so view points are welcome.

 

[speedgoat]

Thanks for all the responses so far. So a quick search on wikipedia shows that my truck is one of 112,000 units made in 2000. Even if the milkshake happens to 10% of them that means there would be 11,000 4runners just from that model year with this failure. So between 1996 and 2002 there might be as many as 100,000 trucks with the milkshake if it happens 10% of the time. Are there really that many?

 

[brian4t]

All points well taken. I guess I'll go ahead and throw out my theory and be done with it. My past Rover (Discovery) had a high rate of head gasket failure. Most around 80-100k, some as early as 30K and a few lasted for 150K or more. This problem was rampant, meaning much worse than the milk shake from our 4runners. There were many different theory's about expansion rates of the heads and bad blocks from the factory but one of the biggest theory's was the Dexcool coolant used in Rovers and Chevy's. It was claimed that if the coolant wasn't changed every 30k it would become acidic (or the likes) and begin to break down the head gasket to the point of failure. There was also the same problem with the Valley pan gasket backing up the theory the dexcool was the culprit. All this said I was wondering if something similar could be going on with the coolant on the 4runners. This might not be the case but I have not read this theory elsewhere and thought I'd throw it out there. BTW, I replaced the head gaskets in my Discovery not once but twice in a four year period. Before you ask yes, the heads were skimmed and I used OEM gaskets and correct torque specs on the (New) head bolts.

 

[theizzardking]

Thanks for all the responses so far. So a quick search on wikipedia shows that my truck is one of 112,000 units made in 2000. Even if the milkshake happens to 10% of them that means there would be 11,000 4runners just from that model year with this failure. So between 1996 and 2002 there might be as many as 100,000 trucks with the milkshake if it happens 10% of the time. Are there really that many?

yeah but it's still just 10% of the time no matter how large or small the number, you have a 10% chance of that happening regardless if there are 1 million made that year or 100, 10% is 10%, like i said in above posts it's defiantly worth doing
as a 10% chance is still quite high really, but i don't think if you put it off for a while your going to be wishing you had done it right off the bat, provided everything is up to snuff as it should be anyways. But like everyone is saying it is worth it just for peice of mind and the insurance against that 10%, i don't want to be taken wrong here, it is a worth while thing to do, i just don't think it's going to be the end of the world if you don't do it right away.

as with anything just keep an eye on the fluid and 90% of the time you'll be fine =-)

 

[BrianSD_42]

Personally, I would recomend it above 150k. I replaced my radiator at 190k and don't regret it for a minute.

I also asked the guy who works on my truck and he said he sees the failure "fairly often", I dont have any numbers but they are a large shop in San Diego that focuses in Toyotas. I had already asked for a quote based on my trucks age and he wasn't trying to sell me on it or scare me.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Thanks for all the responses so far. So a quick search on wikipedia shows that my truck is one of 112,000 units made in 2000. Even if the milkshake happens to 10% of them that means there would be 11,000 4runners just from that model year with this failure. So between 1996 and 2002 there might be as many as 100,000 trucks with the milkshake if it happens 10% of the time. Are there really that many?

your math is off. probability math is more complex than this, your numbers far oversimplify the problem.

the question is: what % of 4Runner still on the road today suffer a pink milkshake like failure and a what mileage does it commonly occur?

to figure that out you would need access to a dealers database and then you need to run some formulas that are calculous based.

 

[theizzardking]

i'll just add as well i do plan on doing this myself, just not yet, to many other toys to buy for to many other things. thinking next summer or so.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

I strongly recommend if your truck is more than 10 years old than simply replace the radiator and it's less than $150 so don't be a cheapskate since I wouldn't take the chance and be in that small percentage of pink milkshake sufferers. It's really a small price to pay to ward off possibly spending a couple grand on a used tranny.

Is having the tranny cooler bathed in coolant inside the radiator a bad idea or design? No,it's actually a better and more efficient design than an external cooler since it still will cool the tranny fluid in stop and go traffic and more importantly when crawling along a trail off road where an external cooler will have little to no airflow going over it without rigging up an electric fan to the cooler. (yes,it's been done)

I would check your lines going into the radiator at the very least but if you live in a rust inducing climate I would change out your radiator.

 

[Garage Guy]

Someone posted a while back some pics from them tearing open their failed radiator. It showed all the corrosion inside and some details of the failure mode. THAT is evidence you could potentially make a theory from (though you'd need to see some other examples of it to make sure it wasn't just a fluke). I wish I had it bookmarked, because it was pretty interesting.

Some pictures of Toyota radiator internals here: My Radiator

 

[Nelsonmd]

Some pictures of Toyota radiator internals here: My Radiator

Nice. I don't think that is the one I am thinking of; I remember more corrosion. Good to have better pics of it though.