How much weight is too much for balancing wheels/tires? Need advice please.

[sandwich]

So I took the advice of this forum and fired my previous tire shop that messed up the balancing of my wheels. I went to a different shop on Monday (yesterday) and had them re-balance everything. Today driving to work I feel a shake in the steering wheel at about 55-65 mph. So I took it back today and low and behold, they are STILL out of balance. WTF!!!! :redbrick::redbrick::redbrick:

So I talked to the guy today and he told me there may be something wrong with either the wheels, the tires, or both. He did get the tires to "zero" out on the balancing machine BUT there is between 6 to 8oz of weight on EACH wheel. He said this is ridiculous because that's like a half pound of weight on each wheel. And the weight is not all in one spot, it's in 2 or 3 spots around the middle of the rim (static balancing). Is this normal?

Can you guys tell me if this is normal, or should I send back the wheels and tires and have them replaced?

All I wanted was a new set of shoes.. this has caused so much headache in the past week I'm almost sorry I spent money on them.

If it matters, the wheels are 20" XD Addict -12mm offset and the tires are 285/50R20 116S Nitto Terra Grapplers

Thanks for any and all help, I appreciate it guys.
Anthony

 

[stevec5000]

No that's not normal. I just balanced the wheels for Greg, mforce, last week who was having the same problem. The shop was putting the weights on the wrong side of his wheels. We took them off and re-balanced and it only took 1-1.5 oz. on each wheel. If you consider the wheels are going to be perfectly balanced from the factory (if they aren't bent or damaged) and the tires should be near perfectly balanced then when you put the tires on the wheels, if you get the dot next to the valve, they should be nearly perfectly balanced without any weights. You should only need an ounce or so to touch them up so they are perfect. If the shop can't do them it's probably better to do it yourself. You can buy a tire balancer from Harbor Freight for $60 and reuse all the weights that you already have. It sounds like you have enough weights to last for a lifetime.

 

[nevada]

i would say they arent getting chucked up on the machine correctly.
3oz is generally a lot.
6-8 would have me breaking the tire down, and spinning it on the wheel.

also, it will usually take more weight when putting them inside the wheel, versus on the lip. a lot of the newer wheels wont even accept weights on the lip, so there is no choice. but whenver its possible to do so, you get a better balance.

 

[Beakerbox]

Tire rack says, "While there is no industry standard, the general consensus of what is too much weight is when it takes more than 1% of the assembly weight to bring it into balance."

Let's take a test example of one incident I recently encountered when a customer expressed concern that 15 wheel weights were used on his 19" BMW wheel and tire package. Is 15 weights too many? Let's find out.

Each stick-on weight is a quarter of an ounce
15 weights on one wheel = 3.75 ounces
19x8.5 wheel weight = 27.5 pounds
235/35R19 tire = 24.0 pounds
Total package weight = 51.5 pounds or 824 ounces
1% of that = 8.2 ounces

15 weights (3.75 ounces total) is very reasonable given the total weight of the wheel and tire in this example.

How many wheel weights are too many? - Make Driving Fun with Performance Tires & Wheels | Tire Rack

 

[stevec5000]

Tire rack says, "While there is no industry standard, the general consensus of what is too much weight is when it takes more than 1% of the assembly weight to bring it into balance."

Let's take a test example of one incident I recently encountered when a customer expressed concern that 15 wheel weights were used on his 19" BMW wheel and tire package. Is 15 weights too many? Let's find out.

Each stick-on weight is a quarter of an ounce
15 weights on one wheel = 3.75 ounces
19x8.5 wheel weight = 27.5 pounds
235/35R19 tire = 24.0 pounds
Total package weight = 51.5 pounds or 824 ounces
1% of that = 8.2 ounces

15 weights (3.75 ounces total) is very reasonable given the total weight of the wheel and tire in this example.

How many wheel weights are too many? - Make Driving Fun with Performance Tires & Wheels | Tire Rack

3.75 ounces from the customer's point of view probably means a bad tire or it wasn't mounted properly if it's a street tire. If it's an off road or snow tire I wouldn't worry about it. 15 weights is ridiculous, I would never accept a tire balanced that way!

 

[nevada]

3.75 ounces from the customer's point of view probably means a bad tire or it wasn't mounted properly if it's a street tire. If it's an off road or snow tire I wouldn't worry about it. 15 weights is ridiculous, I would never accept a tire balanced that way!

what about 8, 1/2oz weights?

like i said earlier, balancing that way usually takes more weights, and is about the worst way to do it. but some wheels give you no other choice.

 

[Ducmonsta]

Find a local shop that has a road force balancer. And one that uses the Haweka adapters. Ask them you want to know how much "road force" is being exerted on each tire. Car tires are limited to 29lbs of road force. Our tires are limited to 39lbs of road force. If these limits are exceeded even after "road force matching" the tire and wheel, there is something wrong with the tire (usually not the wheel).

Pay whatever price it is to get it done right the first time.

 

[stevec5000]

Find a local shop that has a road force balancer. And one that uses the Haweka adapters. Ask them you want to know how much "road force" is being exerted on each tire. Car tires are limited to 29lbs of road force. Our tires are limited to 39lbs of road force. If these limits are exceeded even after "road force matching" the tire and wheel, there is something wrong with the tire (usually not the wheel).

What is "road force" exactly?

 

[mapdash]

So I took the advice of this forum and fired my previous tire shop that messed up the balancing of my wheels. I went to a different shop on Monday (yesterday) and had them re-balance everything. Today driving to work I feel a shake in the steering wheel at about 55-65 mph. So I took it back today and low and behold, they are STILL out of balance. WTF!!!! :redbrick::redbrick::redbrick:

So I talked to the guy today and he told me there may be something wrong with either the wheels, the tires, or both. He did get the tires to "zero" out on the balancing machine BUT there is between 6 to 8oz of weight on EACH wheel. He said this is ridiculous because that's like a half pound of weight on each wheel. And the weight is not all in one spot, it's in 2 or 3 spots around the middle of the rim (static balancing). Is this normal?

Can you guys tell me if this is normal, or should I send back the wheels and tires and have them replaced?

All I wanted was a new set of shoes.. this has caused so much headache in the past week I'm almost sorry I spent money on them.

If it matters, the wheels are 20" XD Addict -12mm offset and the tires are 285/50R20 116S Nitto Terra Grapplers

Thanks for any and all help, I appreciate it guys.
Anthony

I hope this isnt a wheel specific issue. I have the same wheels (different tires) and have had similar issues.

I had them rebalanced once by the shop that installed them and i am now looking to have a roadforce balance.

There is a stacked strip of weights on one of the rears that i think is the trouble wheel/tire.

 

[Ducmonsta]

What is "road force" exactly?

Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix

 

[FatDave]

Sorry to hear it, sandwich.

You can test the wheels by balancing them without tires on them. That would also be a good time to check them for being true.

As far as the tires go, balanced tires can still vibrate if they're out of round.

It doesn't account for the amount of weights used, but using the wrong type of lug nuts can cause the wheels seat improperly, which can cause vibration.

Good luck.:hatsoff:

 

[stevec5000]

what about 8, 1/2oz weights?

like i said earlier, balancing that way usually takes more weights, and is about the worst way to do it. but some wheels give you no other choice.

It might be easier to "hide" 4 1oz weights by putting two of them on each side but I would start to question what they were doing at that point.

 

[imboredeveryday]

you honestly dont want them in different spots on the inner part of the rim say one at the top of the rim and one on the bottom rim basically your counter balancing all the weight u just put on. A good tech knows how to make them balance out with weights in only one spot but very rare you will have a rim that wont balance out at all. U can road force them and if that still doesnt work then you can have them phase match them which tells you where the best spot to put that tire and rim on the car and gets it to the best.the tundras with the 20s had this issue and the only way that thoes where fixable where with a tottaly new tire on them.

 

[Ducmonsta]

If they are static balancing your tires, there should only be one place for weights. If they are dynamically balancing your tires, there will definitely be two spots. But these 2 places are on opposite sides of the wheel. For example, an old steel wheel had them on the outside of the wheel AND inside. For most aftermarket aluminum wheels, there is no longer a "lip" on the outside if the wheel for weights to be installed. Therefore, one set of weights is installed close to the back "lip" of the wheel and the other set is usually a sticky weight installed on the inside of the wheel "spoke". If at all possible, it's best to dynamically balance a tire. Size of wheel, caliper clearance, tie rod ends, and anything else that might knock a wheel weight off will determine where you can place them.

 

[sandwich]

Wow thanks for all the responses guys. I really didn't think it was this complex to have a set of tires balanced. :dammit: These are actually my first set of aftermarket wheels, ever for any car i've owned.

Will it be safe to say I have to find a shop with this road force machine? Is this the same machine that people refer to as the hunter 9700?

It would be ideal if someone in the North Jersey or even central jersey area had a GOOD shop I can go to and have this done RELIABLY. I'd be forever grateful :hatsoff:

Hell, I'd even drive out to PA or NY to have it done correctly. anyone? Bueller? lol

 

[sandwich]

I've read in some other threads where people recommend the dealership balance their wheels with the road force machine.. I don't know if I trust those guys by me.. and besides I'd imagine it would be astronomically priced and I'm not sure they'd do aftermarket wheels. I really need someone who knows what they're doing and talking about. Time to do more research, I Will check back in here later :lookout:

 

[Beakerbox]

The hunter website has a locator so you can find which shops carry the machine in your area - it doesn't have to be your local dealer.

The road force makes it somewhat idiot proof, once everything is mounted correctly the machine tells the technician what to do and when. Do you not trust your local dealer for a specific reason? have they wronged you? - or are you saying your unsure because you've no evidence to say you can trust them, in which case I'd say take it to the dealer - it's just a wheel balance and for the most part the machine does the job.


There's really no reasonable reason why you should be reluctant to bring it to a dealer - unless you know this particular dealership to really suck..

 

[sandwich]

The hunter website has a locator so you can find which shops carry the machine in your area - it doesn't have to be your local dealer.

The road force makes it somewhat idiot proof, once everything is mounted correctly the machine tells the technician what to do and when. Do you not trust your local dealer for a specific reason? have they wronged you? - or are you saying your unsure because you've no evidence to say you can trust them, in which case I'd say take it to the dealer - it's just a wheel balance and for the most part the machine does the job.


There's really no reasonable reason why you should be reluctant to bring it to a dealer - unless you know this particular dealership to really suck..

I guess logically, what you said makes sense. I think I just have a bad taste in my mouth for ALL dealerships.. and that is probably mostly due to their sales departments. But yes you are right, I shouldn't just generalize like that.

The few times I've been to the service department they have done an alright job, besides that a scheduled appointment for an oil change took over 3 hours to complete..

 

[martini]

if you get the dot next to the valve, they should be nearly perfectly balanced without any weights.

I'd like to hear more about this since this is the second time I've heard mention of this. Is this spot marked on all tires? Is it where the value is/should be installed or just near it? Thanks.

 

[stevec5000]

I'd like to hear more about this since this is the second time I've heard mention of this. Is this spot marked on all tires? Is it where the value is/should be installed or just near it? Thanks.

The spot is marked on some tires but not all, usually with just a drop of paint. It should be installed next to the valve. If you install the tires inside-out with the raised white letters or white sidewall on the inside I don't know what you do. I would guess the spot is still supposed to be on the same side of the wheel as the valve but it might not make much difference in that case.