I have SVDudeitis

[KidVermicious]

Work has been slow the past couple of nights, and I've been prowling the web.

Tell me why a motor swap (to a 3rz or whatever) is a better idea than an engnbldr RV head and mild cam, a Maxpower ported throttle body, a high flow filter on a Supra 3" AFM and a good exhaust header. With a fresh bottom and clean fuel injectors I bet that makes 140+ hp, which is dang close to the 3rz, about the same money as a 3rz donor truck, and 5000% less hassle.

 

[SV_Dude]

It all really depends on your goal. But keep in mind that once you start pepping up your engine you won't want to stop. If I could go back and do it again I would have either built a STOCK engine or did an engine swap. Yes the engine swap would have been a bit more challenging but you will have a better platform IF you decide that you need more power to run bigger tires or drive the speed limit on the freeway.

Don't do it KidV, learn from me on this one. I dumped 3 grand into my engine and could have done a 3rz swap or a few other swaps for about the same money and had more power with an engine that can be upgraded easier and cheaper.

 

[KidVermicious]

Sure, but your 3 grand went down the drain because of a machine shop error, right? I thought you were pretty happy with your motor before that. And I really don't see myself getting lost in some Arthurian Quest For The Holy Horsepower. I've been doing just fine with the 22RE for years, I'm fairly certain that just a little bump will do me. If I can make reliable 3rz power without actually swapping to a 3rz, why not?

 

[SV_Dude]

There was a machine shop error but I don't really think that robbed me of a whole lot of power. I was still able to turn my 35's with 4.88 gearing half way decent even at 6000+ feet. I definitely wouldn't call it 3k wasted, just not spent in the most efficient manner. Honestly, if you're happy with 130-140hp then refresh your bottom end, don't bore it unless you have to. Go with a good air intake from LCE that will give you a better airflow. Get a good LCE header and open the rest of your exhaust to 2.75" all the way back and get a high flow cat or get rid of your cat. Make sure your fuel injectors and all other sensors are working smooth as they should. Any variance in the EFI system can rob a lot of power if something is intermittent or not working properly. Get a mild 268 cam and a RV head (not sure what head you have now). Basically just massage the airflow, fuel and exhaust a little and you'll open the 22re quite a bit. doing those few things you'll probably spend a couple grand but you may be happy with your power output.

 

[SV_Dude]

FWIW: I rebuilt the engine again before I sold the 4runner. Total rebuild cost was under $500. The new owner says there isn't a whole lot of oil loss that isn't normal for an engine break in. He's loving the new runner and that is now his DD and his other fun car stays parked.

 

[KidVermicious]

That's pretty much my thought, a fresh block with intake and exhaust mods. I think I can do it for under $1500 (which is going to be the starting point of any engine), and I think I can put out 140 ponies.

Am I off with that estimation? engnbldr says 5-10% potential increase with his RV head alone, that's 10 hp right there. A bigger intake, ported throttle body, and header and exhaust should open up the other 20 or so I need to make my number, and probably a little better. Or that's my thinking anyway.

 

[BucknutBob]

The thing I never liked with regards to building small engines, as they pertain to off-roading in particular, is that the power nearly always comes at a higher rpm, contrary to what is desired for trail use. That's why I typically look for more cubic inches, to keep the power in the lowest rpms possible. I understand that gearing can make up for a lot, but the smaller engine must still work that much harder to remain in the sweet spot. It's not as much of an issue with small gains such as what you're proposing, Kid, as you're still close to your starting point. Your plan sounds great as long as you're sure you'll be content with that power level.

 

[Footofgod]

Here's my take. This will be an offroad rock crawler, right? The best advantages will be in gearing, dual cases, low end engine torque and good gripping tires for slow crawling. So other than pushing tires at highway speeds, what advantage is really gained with more of them cubic inches? At 2mph going up a rock wall, they won't mean squat. Keep a solid running 22RE and invest your time and money elsewhere.

(Says the guy with the 3.0.)

 

[BucknutBob]

Here's my take. This will be an offroad rock crawler, right? The best advantages will be in gearing, dual cases, low end engine torque and good gripping tires for slow crawling. So other than pushing tires at highway speeds, what advantage is really gained with more of them cubic inches? At 2mph going up a rock wall, they won't mean squat. Keep a solid running 22RE and invest your time and money elsewhere.

(Says the guy with the 3.0.)

Cubic inches are how you get that "low end engine torque" you mentioned. Having that in reserve is like extra gearing when you need it, without moving a shifter or T-case lever.

 

[Driftinfc]

I'm under a grand with a rebuild and ported complete engnbldr head with 268 cam. Spend that extra money on cool shit lol

 

[SV_Dude]

[MENTION=75090]Footofgod[/MENTION]. I gotta admit, when we went snow wheeling in December, having the v8 was really nice when I needed or wanted to throttle through something. It doesn't matter how much you gear down a 4 banger, it won't turn the tires like a bigger or more powerful engine.

 

[KidVermicious]

Ok, so I think this is going to happen. A Thorley header found it's way into the parts pile in my garage, and so I directed a few pointed questions at Ted (engnbldr). He claims to have made 143 horsepower with his RV head and a 270/430 cam on an otherwise stock motor, and that's a damned respectable number.

So here's the plan - stock bottom end, stock fuel and stock spark. I'm going to run my K&N filter in the stock cleaner housing, mated to a 3" Supra AFM and swapped to the battery side. Custom 3" tubing all the way to the throttle body, which will be bored out and bolted to an intake plenum tapered to match. An engnbldr RV head and my Compcams 260s will do the dirty work, and the backside will consist of the Thorley exhaust header, a high flow cat, and whatever the quietest muffler I can find is.

With what Ted is claiming for his head, I think this setup makes my 150hp target easily, and does it without boring, stroking, or forced induction. It might approach 160. And it's going to cost me far less than the 3rz swap would, and won't require any fabbing or harness splicing to make happen.

It won't happen right away, I've got other priorities on the truck to take care of first. But stay tuned.

 

[GonOvr]

:lol: respectable 143hp

Heres my take, yea it would be easier but what about reliability? The 3rz would be stock i assume. Instead of throwing all these parts at an engine to get the same outcome. Put a newer more efficient, more reliable (over a modded 22re, i know a stock 22re is invincible) and run it for years to come.

Engine swaps arent for everyone but the pride you get out of doing one and watching it work is priceless.

 

[haywire91]

I have had this debate for the past 4 years with myself and I was able to get to two conclusions:

1) If you are turning tires offroad or want better fuel economy then do the 3rz.

2) If you want more power and don't want to swap an engine, then mod the 22RE.

Both will cost bout the same and give you the same amount of headache in the long run; balancing having a stock vs modded engine, older vs newer engine, rewiring vs tuning, whatever you want to compare. But bottom line is a performance 22RE is great for the streets but I do not like mine off road, there is no low end torque and it sounds just too ricy. I owned a 3RZ at one point to swap in it and still wish I had actually done that. With that said, I love ripping around town with my current setup (LCE header, mild LCE cam and K&N filter).

 

[KidVermicious]

:lol: respectable 143hp

Compared to 116, that's pretty f*cking good! ound:

I have had this debate for the past 4 years with myself and I was able to get to two conclusions:

1) If you are turning tires offroad or want better fuel economy then do the 3rz.

2) If you want more power and don't want to swap an engine, then mod the 22RE.

Both will cost bout the same and give you the same amount of headache in the long run; balancing having a stock vs modded engine, older vs newer engine, rewiring vs tuning, whatever you want to compare. But bottom line is a performance 22RE is great for the streets but I do not like mine off road, there is no low end torque and it sounds just too ricy. I owned a 3RZ at one point to swap in it and still wish I had actually done that. With that said, I love ripping around town with my current setup (LCE header, mild LCE cam and K&N filter).

If I was starting from scratch, I agree that the budget would be about the same. But I've already got the cam, and I was given the header. Now all I'm short is the head itself and some cheap intake work, so I think bang for my buck the 22RE is the better option.

Get somebody to give me a 3rz donor truck and I'll change my mind again.

 

[KidVermicious]

it sounds just too ricy.

Is that a muffler thing though? I have the same concern. I don't like the Magnaflow a previous owner put on the truck, and I'm sure that once my Four Squirrels Of Fury get Furious it'll sound like crap.

The turbo mufflers are quieter, right?

 

[Quatre Coureur]

Yes the turbo muffs are quieter. Any straight- thru design is gonna sound like a Honda with a fart pipe. Mine does.

 

[BucknutBob]

The combination of a catalytic converter and a turbo muffler will keep your squirrels in check, even with the header.

 

[ChildrenOfBodom]

You could do an OEM turbo swap. You'd just have to figure out the lines. those 22re N/A motors have a 9.3:1 compression I think. You could make some power if you found a good lead on an OEM turbo setup. Except I guess it'd be a better idea to use a better turbo than a CT20.

I have only driven my 22R-TE a mile or so since it has no exhaust yet, but I'm curious how it'll stack up to my 3RZ. My 3RZ is supercharged but I am pulling around 180hp to the wheels on 4 PSI and 100% stock top and bottom end, and that's also with 214k miles. Walbro 190+8PSI+2JZ injectors+piggyback and I'm expecting at least 200-225hp. Methanol injection kits can be pretty cheap relatively so that'd be a great help with the supercharger not having an intercooler.

I like that the 3RZ has less vacuum lines and silly bull to deal with, but you have to spend a lot more money to upgrade fuel since its got a MAF instead of an AFM. Electrical shit.

 

[KidVermicious]

I love the idea of a supercharger on the 22RE, but that's beyond me right now. Hopefully at some point down the road I'll be confident enough in my motor skills to take a swing at it though. Not too interested in an OEM turbo setup though, from what I understand those are fairly cranky setups, and don't pack much punch anyway.