IMHO..my 1995 toyota 4runner poorly designed..

[rumme]

This is my 1st toyota 4runner...1995 , V6 auto - 4wd

I bought it used about 3 weeks ago for $2200....the engine is clean as a pin...no bad engine noises, and 155,000 miles. The air conditioning even works great...

BUT...

now that Ive had it a few weeks, and had to do some things to it, I am quickly coming to the opinion that the people who desinged this , are crazier then a sh1thouse rat ..

changed all 6 plugs...dealer wanted $300 to do it...I did it for $15 , but it was a pain in the butt...way to tight fit for anyone who isnt anorexic or who has muscles...

Yesterday, the starter started to make that clicking noise , and the vehicle wouldnt start reliably....time to change the starter...my Haynes manual made it sound really simple....the manual has a few short sentences about taking 2 bolts out...and you are done...WHAT A JOKE.... never in my life have I had to spend 2-3 hours, just to get 2 bolts off and take a starter out...THIS IS PATHETIC DESIGNING/ENGINEERING.....the dealer wanted $250 just in labor to do this job....

I got the bolts out finally...and somehow managed to get the starter out, without taking other components off...but I have no idea if I will be able to get the new starter back in thru the wheel well area, and get that bottom bolt in.

If this werent bad enough, this v6 engine is a real dog...we have some decent mountainous roads in my area, and this V6 cant handle em to well...

Im starting to wonder if maybe I shoula kept my 1981 dodge ram 150...it ran reliable..and I could change the starter and plugs, in 20 minutes...

this 1995 4runner is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

it also looks like this Haynes service manual is a big joke. They never even mentioned that the only way to get the bottom bolt out of the starter is to use a 3-4 foot extension and go in thru the front of the vehicle.

I have a feeling im gonna be a cussing sailor, when I try to put the new starter back in.

 

[rumme]

Oh..and my MPG on this thing isnt much better then my dodge 360 -V8...

im averaging about 15 mpg...only 3 miles better then my dodge, which had plenty of power....

 

[OCMike]

What? No rant about the cup holder location? :beer:

 

[Saved]

You are one of the first people I have read that is honest about these vehicles. Since this is a 4runner forum with die hard enthusiasts most would say that the 4runner is the best thing since sliced bread even if they could not get theirs started.
I have a 92 and while it fits my requirements the truth is that they are poorly designed in several areas and have some major problems. From what I read about them it is not just the second generation that has the problems. Although Toyota does usually correct the problems from one generation to the next they seem to have a bent on designing new problems into the next generation. For sure anyone who would design a sensor under the intake manifold has some serious mental issues and Toyota has done that along with some other really dumb things.
So I tell people that I am satisfied, but I do tell them of the good and bad, and I don't use mine like most do. All I bought it for was to pull a boat and launch it without getting stuck at the boat ramp and I live only 10 minute away so it serves me since I only put about 2000 miles a year on it.

 

[ChoochCharlie]

Dude. You may need to work on some other cars before griping about the 4Runners.
IMHO, all cars have their issues.
As for plugs, none beat the rear #6 on my '97 Chevy Venture for me. Took an hour of arm twisting.
Then again, my buddies Supra required the removal of the super charger and head to change the plugs.

I have changed several starters that required the unbolting and lifting of the engine to get it out. A Toyota truck comes to mind.

As for your Haynes, try using an old Chilton, no that's an incomplete pita.

Oh, and welcome to the club.

 

[rumme]

Dude. You may need to work on some other cars before griping about the 4Runners.
IMHO, all cars have their issues.
As for plugs, none beat the rear #6 on my '97 Chevy Venture for me. Took an hour of arm twisting.
Then again, my buddies Supra required the removal of the super charger and head to change the plugs.

I have changed several starters that required the unbolting and lifting of the engine to get it out. A Toyota truck comes to mind.

As for your Haynes, try using an old Chilton, no that's an incomplete pita.

Oh, and welcome to the club.

I fully understand that most of todays newer vehicles, may be even harder to do maintenance work on, then the 95 4runner...but that doesnt change the fact that the toyota engineers could have desinged these 4 runners, so much better.....I mean cmon...it should not take hours to get 2 bolts out to change a starter...

things like starters, fuel pumps , fuel filters, spark plugs , air filters, etc...are maintenance items that the owner should be able to deal with and replace in a fairly easy manner...

I fully expect things like timing belts, head gaskets , etc..to be a pain in the azz to fix/change...but desingers should put more thought into making it easier to replace/repair items that are external parts of the engine...

people should not have to pay $400 to have a damn starter put on their vehicle...these are toyotas for gods sake...not Lamborghinis

and this V6, really is a dog, when it comes to power...and ya know...I wouldnt even have a problem with that..if the engine got 20- 28 mpg...heck...they barely manage 18 mpg...if they are properly tuned and running at peak performance in a stock format..so what we have is a very weak V6....that doesnt even get good gas mileage...

im just giving my honest opinions...I could be wrong...but these are my current opinions after having to do some work on this 4runner...and driving it upo and down hilly highways.

 

[rumme]

What? No rant about the cup holder location? :beer:

hahaha...yeah...how clever to have the cupholders right near the vents....

once again..proof that some of these 4runner engineers, werent the sharpest knives in the drawer...

 

[RotaMan2]

Welcome to the CLUB,,,, I see now you are on the starter issue...LOL, Did you get that volatage draw fixed? I hope you did'nt buy a new starter, If so, Then you could have bought a repair kit for under 15 bucks. I just did mine last week. It did'nt take me 2 hrs tough. Maybe 20 minutes tops. Oh well, we all have our diffrent approach to the same destination. and seriously, Welcome.

 

[rumme]

Welcome to the CLUB,,,, I see now you are on the starter issue...LOL, Did you get that volatage draw fixed. I hope you did buy a new starter. If so then you could bought a repair kit for under 15 bucks. I just did mine last week. It did'nt take me 2 hrs tough. Maybe 20 minutes maxed. Oh well, we all have our diffrent approach to the same destination. and seriously, Welcome.

well my local Oreilly auto parts has a reman starter for $65 with core exchange...and it has a limited lifetime warranty...

ironically, autozone and advance also has a starter for it, and they are charging $139.99
..

amazing how price shopping can save ya some $$$$

question....I was able to get the old starter out thru the wheel well area, without taking anything off the truck { other then the front right tire}

will I be able to get the new starter thru the wheel well area and positioned properly to bolt it up , or will I need to take other things off to get the new starter into the tight spot ?

 

[RotaMan2]

Yes, but did you remove the the small metal cover that is part of the whell well? You have to take out the rubber mud guards with it. I think it's 4 10mm bolts.

 

[rumme]

Welcome to the CLUB,,,, I see now you are on the starter issue...LOL, Did you get that volatage draw fixed? I hope you did'nt buy a new starter, If so, Then you could have bought a repair kit for under 15 bucks. I just did mine last week. It did'nt take me 2 hrs tough. Maybe 20 minutes tops. Oh well, we all have our diffrent approach to the same destination. and seriously, Welcome.

I had to take it to the toyota service station to find out what was pulling the voltage....it was a aftermarket GPS box that was mounted behind the dash area, underneath the steering wheel ....

that cost me $125 of them to take it out...took about 1 hour...so they charge about $125 a hour just in labor...

I asked em how much they would charge me to put on my new fuel filter , and he said it would be at least a 1 hour service charge minimum { $125] ...i told em forget...

its ridiculous...$300 to have plugs changed...$400 to have a starter put on...$125 to have a fuel filter put on { and I already had a brand new fuel filter that I pre bought in a box ready to go} ...etc...

this is absoloute insanity...and in the end, when it is running properly,,,,it still lacks power and has poor MPG...


im gonna put a new starter on it...and hope to get at least a few years of dependability out of it....if more things start to go bad or need replacing...shes getting put back on craigslist and sold . I gotta have a vehicle that is either depandable...or, fairly easy for me to do maintenance work on if it isnt depandable...

 

[rumme]

Yes, but did you remove the the small metal cover that is part of the whell well? You have to take out the rubber mud guards with it. I think it's 4 10mm bolts.

hmmm...no, I did not remove anything else but the right front tire....this stupid Haynes manual just says to take out the two bolts..and and doesnt even mention that you need to get the front bolt out by using a 3 ft long extension coming in from the front grill area...

do you have a picture of the small metal cover, that I need to remove ?

My Haynes manual doesnt show 1 damn picture of the removal procedure for the starter,.

 

[RotaMan2]

Look into the passenger wheel well, You will see the 10 mm bolts right above the upper A arms


Fuel filter is easy, I did that after i worked on my starter.

On the passenger side on the frame rail next to the t-case. 17mm and 14 mm nut wrench to un bolt the fuel lines. 12mm to unbolt the filter from the frame.

 

[rumme]

Look into the passenger wheel well, You will see the 10 mm bolts right above the upper A arms


Fuel filter is easy, I did that after i worked on my starter.

On the passenger side on the frame rail next to the t-case. 17mm and 14 mm nut wrench to un bolt the fuel lines. 12mm to unbolt the filter from the frame.

so you think I will have to remove those 10m.m bolts, to get the new starter installed ?

can I assume it is also difficult to get to those bolts ? How many bolts need to be removed ?

 

[RotaMan2]

there are (4) bolts, I don't even know how you got the starter out without taking those bolts out and the wheel well cover, that there amazed me. LOL

You will have to play with it to get in there but it will get in through there.

I used to be a Toyota tech for many years and thats the way i was thought to get the starters in and out.

 

[RonMAIDEN]

There are reasons why the 2nd gen is the most maligned of generation of 4Runners. Underpowered and bad MPG are just a couple.

 

[rumme]

I think another design flaw is how heavy this vehicle is...I think I read that it weighs about 4000 lbs...

dont get me wrong...I know toyotas are usually reliable and generally have very solid transmissions ,etc....but this 95 4runner seems like a bit of a outcast..LOL....poor power, poor MPG...very sluggish , weighs to much , etc...


If this thing weighed 2800 lbs..instead of 4000 lbs...I think its performance would have been much better, as far as power/speed and mpg with the V6 engine.

To me, it seems like a very odd vehicle for toyota to mass produce...it doesnt get good gas mileage , so its not great for a daily driver who drives alot of miles...and , it lacks power , so its not great for heavy mudding , racing , in its stock form....

as I said earlier...I dont mind if the V6 lacks power..but I then expect very good MPG...and if it doesnt have very good MPG..I then expect plenty of power...this V6 doesnt achieve either of those 2 things...

 

[RotaMan2]

drop the starter into the wheel well opening, Go under the car, hold the starter into position with one hand and the other to bolt the top bolt first just a few turns to hold it inplace. then the bottom bolt. after you both in tighten the top bolt first then the bottom from the front with a 4 foot extension,,,, Lmao

 

[rumme]

there are (4) bolts, I don't even know how you got the starter out without taking those bolts out and the wheel well cover, that there amazed me. LOL

You will have to play with it to get in there but it will get in through there.

I used to be a Toyota tech for many years and thats the way i was thought to get the starters in and out.

It took me about 35 minutes of cussing and finniggling to get the starter out thru the wheel well area......and I still dont know how I got it out...LOL...sheer persistence and hatred on my part , got it out...

keep in mind..I also changed the plugs on the passenger side of the motor, without removing any vacumm lines ,etc....

sometimes my sheer stubborness allows me to get things done, in a way that shouldnt be possible....:cowboy:

 

[RotaMan2]

These runners were for the "soccer MOMs", They were design for that purpose. Not to take long "mpg" trips, but for soccer moms to run around town with. They have low end torque for intown driving. and stop n go traffic.

Also back in the 90's fuel was not this much so really "mpg" was not much of an issue.