Hellamatic
New member
I'm not sure I want to open this can of worms, but what brand of wheel spacers did they use? Hopefully not a cheaply built imported set - that's another cause for concern as well.
Is This Safe? Installer Did a Surprise Body Mount Chop on 2012 SR5
- Thread starter DougD
- Start date
wfo9
New member
I would not get too freaked out about the potential safety issue. It is isolated to a very specific type of impact and everyone is really guessing (including me) We only know that they put some pretty strong steel there and extended it out further than most would think is necessary at first glance.... The body mount chop is an extremely common modification on Toyota trucks. Overall, your vehicle is still very safe (just maybe not as safe as it was from the factory in that type of impact). I would still want it boxed in... But like I said before, very hard to to do without either (1 removing more material or 2 lifting the body off the frame)
But.... what would really piss me off is that it was not needed. If you wanted to run 34" tires... and they had told you a BMC was necessary.. then great. You could have made the trade-off decision...
But 33s do not require a body mount chop when the correct wheels with proper offset are used.
Again, this sounds like 4wheelParts. They are clowns.
But.... what would really piss me off is that it was not needed. If you wanted to run 34" tires... and they had told you a BMC was necessary.. then great. You could have made the trade-off decision...
But 33s do not require a body mount chop when the correct wheels with proper offset are used.
Again, this sounds like 4wheelParts. They are clowns.
RESQLAB
New member
my big concern would for the future if i wanted to trade it in... if a dealer saw that, chances are they would not take your trade & may consider that frame damage. an outside buyer might not care so much... personally, i wouldn't touch a truck that had frame modifications of ANY type.
hope you get some resolution and sorry this happened.. like everyone else said, they should of told you they were doing this w/o question! also, looks like the rubber mount has been compromised by a couple of nice slices into it? id have them replace that.
i had the same thing happen to me when i ordered wheels from ORW (off road warehouse) for an F150.. made to order custom made Centerlines @ $500 each! when they showed almost 6 months later, they hit the calipers. ORW tried to get me to use spacers and i replied, "i just paid two grand for these rims, no way am i using spacers, somebody on your end or Centerline screwed up the measurements." got a refund & never went back to ORW again.
not to get you all freaked out (and your frame mod would probably have minimal effect w/this example) but somebody on this thread said the 4Runner kinda sucked at the new overlap crash test procedure... had to look myself and they are correct:
heres the link:
Vehicle details
OUCH... but im sure they could buff that out!
hope you get some resolution and sorry this happened.. like everyone else said, they should of told you they were doing this w/o question! also, looks like the rubber mount has been compromised by a couple of nice slices into it? id have them replace that.
i had the same thing happen to me when i ordered wheels from ORW (off road warehouse) for an F150.. made to order custom made Centerlines @ $500 each! when they showed almost 6 months later, they hit the calipers. ORW tried to get me to use spacers and i replied, "i just paid two grand for these rims, no way am i using spacers, somebody on your end or Centerline screwed up the measurements." got a refund & never went back to ORW again.
not to get you all freaked out (and your frame mod would probably have minimal effect w/this example) but somebody on this thread said the 4Runner kinda sucked at the new overlap crash test procedure... had to look myself and they are correct:
heres the link:
Vehicle details
OUCH... but im sure they could buff that out!
Attachments
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sandcrawler
Senior Member
yeah, according to the product Q&A linked in OP's original post, those spacers are not hub-centric (like Spidertrax)... http://www.4wheelparts.com/Wheels/W...t=7576&t_pn=G/293-83-125T#questions_Container
...or, wait, maybe not. another A in the Q&A says they are hub-centric. not confidence-inspiring.
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They used G2 brand aluminum spacers. It's true the 4 Wheel Parts website displays conflicting answers from company reps stating these spacers ARE and ARE NOT hubcentric.
The salesman assured me they're safe but I now realize that assurance means nothing. What's the story on these spacers?
chmura
New member
My neighbor has a 2014 Tacoma with 35's with a body mount shop with no welded plate in the opening.
You will be fine. It's an eye sore without a plate. But since my neighbor hasn't had any problems for over a year running 35's and he off roads a lot. I doubt the plate is critical. Welding a plate just looks more oem and more pleasing to the eye.
You will be fine. It's an eye sore without a plate. But since my neighbor hasn't had any problems for over a year running 35's and he off roads a lot. I doubt the plate is critical. Welding a plate just looks more oem and more pleasing to the eye.
Blitzkrieg
New member
I know the tests are in the name of safety, but why does it bother me so to see perfectly new vehicles destroyed?
Also, go to the frame at 53 seconds. Why are the headrests removed? If you are going to test a vehicle and destroy it, it should be whole for a valid test not?
I don't know about NHTSA but I normally don't drive around with my headrests removed.
Also, go to the frame at 53 seconds. Why are the headrests removed? If you are going to test a vehicle and destroy it, it should be whole for a valid test not?
I don't know about NHTSA but I normally don't drive around with my headrests removed.
wfo9
New member
Lets be clear... It is not a structural part of the frame. It is just the mount for the body and the part that was cut is really a small portion of the overall mount structure.
It's probably perfectly fine as is... it just looks like crap and would make me cringe and hurt re-sale value...
They screwed up pretty bad doing this without permission, so I would politely ask for a proper fix. Get a legit fabrication/custom shop to weld it up on their dime (without melting the rubber).
It's probably perfectly fine as is... it just looks like crap and would make me cringe and hurt re-sale value...
They screwed up pretty bad doing this without permission, so I would politely ask for a proper fix. Get a legit fabrication/custom shop to weld it up on their dime (without melting the rubber).
sandcrawler
Senior Member
i would contact the manufacturer directly and verify the details for that part number myself.
i agree this is a shit show, but doesn't the back spacing match the stock wheels? obviously they are wider. do you mean that if you go to wider wheels you should increase the back spacing according? (ie another 1/2 inch in this case?)
1engineer
Moderator
Yes.
wfo9
New member
Backspacing takes width into account, so wheel size should not impact the amount needed directly. Offset is the spec that needs to increase with width to maintain the same backspacing.
Yes, the wheels had decent backspacing 4.5". But the design of the wheel would not clear the calipers (if you do a search there is plenty of info about this), so they put on spacers and decreased the effective backspacing down to 3.25". On a 9" wheels that creates a pretty bad scrub angle... Thus the need for the hack BMC. The sane person would have realized the wheels simply don't fit. There are plenty of ~4.5"BS 17x8 or 17x9 wheels that would have fit perfectly without spacers.. Just not steel pro-comp ones.
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Again, I say just have the shop weld in a reinforcement panel to take up the spot they cut out (if you really want to over build it, have them punch a 4" hole in another piece and fully box the body mounts, unlike what Toyota did.)
But the reality is that body mount is made of mild steel, so any mild 1018 grade steel will be fine.
(Referenced from this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/192575-5th-gen-body-mount-chop.html#post1964935 )
In the above diagram, the J150 frame uses a "440mpa High Strength Steel" for the upper body mount sections. A quick google search shows that a 440mpa steel has a yield point of about 65,000psi; which is similar to an AISI 1018 Mild/Low Carbon Steel (as seen in specifications for said steel standard here: AISI 1018 Mild/Low Carbon Steel ) The bottom section seems to be made of a 780mpa steel which appears to be a 1074 Hot Rolled Carbon Steel, though to be honest with you; it may not be worth trying to match that up since a rather small amount was removed of the 780mpa stuff. I think just fully boxing it in the 1018 would be more than enough to reinforce it.
Bottom line, there is probably some structrual integrity lost in the body mount; how much is difficult to determine based on pictures and theorizing alone. Even complicated computer modeling might not be enough (hence why we still do physical crash tests on vehicles.) If the issue is that much of a concern, the shop should not have any issue welding in a reinforcement strip that conforms the to new curvature of the body mount (seriously, its not that hard to just curl a strip of metal and run a good bead; I'd be shocked if they gave you a ton of crap because of it.) They did seem to not correctly inform you what "Trimming" entailed, so that may be a good way to calmly leverage the issue. But all in all, this is not a difficult matter to take care of; any decent welding/fabrication shop should be able to do this if you no longer wish to have the original shop do the work. Hell I'm sure a local member with a welder could be convinced with a 6 pack to fix it for you. :cheers:
Any further questions? :ranger:
But the reality is that body mount is made of mild steel, so any mild 1018 grade steel will be fine.
(Referenced from this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/192575-5th-gen-body-mount-chop.html#post1964935 )
In the above diagram, the J150 frame uses a "440mpa High Strength Steel" for the upper body mount sections. A quick google search shows that a 440mpa steel has a yield point of about 65,000psi; which is similar to an AISI 1018 Mild/Low Carbon Steel (as seen in specifications for said steel standard here: AISI 1018 Mild/Low Carbon Steel ) The bottom section seems to be made of a 780mpa steel which appears to be a 1074 Hot Rolled Carbon Steel, though to be honest with you; it may not be worth trying to match that up since a rather small amount was removed of the 780mpa stuff. I think just fully boxing it in the 1018 would be more than enough to reinforce it.
Bottom line, there is probably some structrual integrity lost in the body mount; how much is difficult to determine based on pictures and theorizing alone. Even complicated computer modeling might not be enough (hence why we still do physical crash tests on vehicles.) If the issue is that much of a concern, the shop should not have any issue welding in a reinforcement strip that conforms the to new curvature of the body mount (seriously, its not that hard to just curl a strip of metal and run a good bead; I'd be shocked if they gave you a ton of crap because of it.) They did seem to not correctly inform you what "Trimming" entailed, so that may be a good way to calmly leverage the issue. But all in all, this is not a difficult matter to take care of; any decent welding/fabrication shop should be able to do this if you no longer wish to have the original shop do the work. Hell I'm sure a local member with a welder could be convinced with a 6 pack to fix it for you. :cheers:
Any further questions? :ranger:
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1engineer
Moderator
Bottom of mount is 780 I think.Again, I say just have the shop weld in a reinforcement panel to take up the spot they cut out (if you really want to over build it, have them punch a 4" hole in another piece and fully box the body mounts, unlike what Toyota did.)
But the reality is that body mount is made of mild steel, so any mild 1018 grade steel will be fine.
(Referenced from this thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/192575-5th-gen-body-mount-chop.html#post1964935 )
In the above diagram, the J150 frame uses a "440mpa High Strength Steel" for the upper body mount sections. A quick google search shows that a 440mpa steel has a yield point of about 65,000psi; which is similar to an AISI 1018 Mild/Low Carbon Steel (as seen in specifications for said steel standard here: AISI 1018 Mild/Low Carbon Steel ) The bottom section seems to be made of a 780mpa steel which appears to be a 1074 Hot Rolled Carbon Steel, though to be honest with you; it may not be worth trying to match that up since a rather small amount was removed of the 780mpa stuff. I think just fully boxing it in the 1018 would be more than enough to reinforce it.
Bottom line, there is probably some structrual integrity lost in the body mount; how much is difficult to determine based on pictures and theorizing alone. Even complicated computer modeling might not be enough (hence why we still do physical crash tests on vehicles.) If the issue is that much of a concern, the shop should not have any issue welding in a reinforcement strip that conforms the to new curvature of the body mount (seriously, its not that hard to just curl a strip of metal and run a good bead; I'd be shocked if they gave you a ton of crap because of it.) They did seem to not correctly inform you what "Trimming" entailed, so that may be a good way to calmly leverage the issue.
Any further questions? :ranger:
BlackWorksInc
New member
Yeah, I just noticed that AFTER I submitted the post. Corrected the post to reflect the 780mpa steel in the bottom half.
You were just waiting to pounce on me for that weren't you, you old codger! lol
op2:Post Note-
If you check the quoted test you can see it says 780mpa in the post.
Nice try though! lol
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This is what was on the vehicle:
TRD 17x7.5 wheels with the stupid "bling rings"*
I still have all 4 of them. Did some cleaning and measuring today:
I would be just fine with painting these myself, plugging the bling ring holes, and putting my new BFG TA KO2's on them (285 70R17). Acording to 1engineer's 5th Gen Tire Fitment Guide sticky, these wheels are on the narrow side for that tire though. The back space is certainly good but I'm not sure if this is the preferred solution.
TRD 17x7.5 wheels with the stupid "bling rings"*
I still have all 4 of them. Did some cleaning and measuring today:
I would be just fine with painting these myself, plugging the bling ring holes, and putting my new BFG TA KO2's on them (285 70R17). Acording to 1engineer's 5th Gen Tire Fitment Guide sticky, these wheels are on the narrow side for that tire though. The back space is certainly good but I'm not sure if this is the preferred solution.
BlackWorksInc
New member
This is what was on the vehicle:
TRD 17x7.5 wheels with the stupid "bling rings"*
I still have all 4 of them. Did some cleaning and measuring today:
I would be just fine with painting these myself, plugging the bling ring holes, and putting my new BFG TA KO2's on them (285 70R17). Acording to 1engineer's 5th Gen Tire Fitment Guide sticky, these wheels are on the narrow side for that tire though. The back space is certainly good but I'm not sure if this is the preferred solution.
I love those "StreetLock" TRD rims, it's a shame they are on the narrow side. My 2855/70R17 Nitto Terra Grapplers came with a warning sticker that said not to mount them on anything less than a 7.5" rim (thankfully stock 4th Gen Sport Rims are exactly 7.5" like most Toyota truck rims.)
I know some people don't like the shiny "beauty ring" but I honestly would prefer that if I decide against true beadlocks. The reason being that when that rim gets scuffed up and nasty looking along that ring, I can just unbolt it and have a new one made ready to go.
I have contacted Mgmt at the shop where this installation was performed. They've agreed that I should have been notified before any cutting was done. They did not dispute that the wrong wheels were installed which led to a chain of poor choices in equipment and procedures. They expressed a willingness to meet with me on Monday to seek a resolution. I'm going to refrain from posting any new info until then. It may be several days.
In the meantime, enjoy this video of my 4Runner. The front tire rubbed a bit when I backed into the driveway while turning. Does this look it would do well on a bumpy, rutted, and sharply curved dirt road in the mountains? 'Cuz that's where I'm planning to take it...
https://youtu.be/q8n9i0qhTKc
In the meantime, enjoy this video of my 4Runner. The front tire rubbed a bit when I backed into the driveway while turning. Does this look it would do well on a bumpy, rutted, and sharply curved dirt road in the mountains? 'Cuz that's where I'm planning to take it...
https://youtu.be/q8n9i0qhTKc
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