Kings or Icons? I know I know, not again

[MEMO CAMPOS]

I mostly wanted to know the different ride dynamics of each brand. I am so ready to pull the trigger but not even just picking a color is helping! Either way I want 2.5's all the way around and a tubular uca that I also cant make up mind on.

 

[Gabex35]

I've had both and prefer the kings. The kings were much more plush than the icons on Tarmac (on my FJ). With that being said, my Kings feel more stiff on my 4R and I think it's mostly due to the KDSS. I can't imagine the stiffer ride my icons had would have made the KDSS feel softer though.

Looks like you are in Westminster, king is right down the road from you and I recommend ordering from Tustin Toyota. They had by far the best prices around.

 

[mgrande]

I have kings and hofs05 has icons. I prefer kings as well. I don't care for the design of icons or the stiffer and shorter spring.

 

[shootmymime]

i know this is the 5th gen page but i sure do love my kings. smooth travel across the whole stroke, forgiving but stiff ride when it comes to quick hard bumps (not bottoming out or close to), Dips in the road it feels like im driving a long travel buggy with the long stroke it has.

 

[MEMO CAMPOS]

Well I'm glad all of you are loving the kings because thats what I'm leaning towards! So far so good!!!

 

[joneseyyy]

First off, I have Icons (coilovers and bypasses). As far as the major differences in the Kings vs. Icons (and Fox, for that matter) off the shelf, the construction and "quality" is the same pretty much, from everything I know, have seen, have heard, etc (I'm a suspension nerd). The difference is valving. King and Fox both use progressive valving, which is why they feel more "plush" most of the time and "stiffer" on big hits. Icons are "digressive" and feel stiffer on the road and small bumps, but feel "less stiff" when soaking up bigger hits at speed. As an FYI, either Kings or Icons can be custom valved however you want brand new or whenever you want to have them rebuilt.

For me, I like the digressive a setup of the Icons as I think it suits my driving style and how I want the truck to handle. If you can, drive both setups back to back and pick one. If you're in SoCal, you can probably do this for the cost of a round of beers for some friendly T4R members.

 

[MEMO CAMPOS]

First off, I have Icons (coilovers and bypasses). As far as the major differences in the Kings vs. Icons (and Fox, for that matter) off the shelf, the construction and "quality" is the same pretty much, from everything I know, have seen, have heard, etc (I'm a suspension nerd). The difference is valving. King and Fox both use progressive valving, which is why they feel more "plush" most of the time and "stiffer" on big hits. Icons are "digressive" and feel stiffer on the road and small bumps, but feel "less stiff" when soaking up bigger hits at speed. As an FYI, either Kings or Icons can be custom valved however you want brand new or whenever you want to have them rebuilt.

For me, I like the digressive a setup of the Icons as I think it suits my driving style and how I want the truck to handle. If you can, drive both setups back to back and pick one. If you're in SoCal, you can probably do this for the cost of a round of beers for some friendly T4R members.

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I personally do prefer the sportier, stiffer ride quality in which its why I have Icons all the way around on my 2nd gen Tacoma. However the 4runner will be in my wifes' possession 99% of the time therefore I think the plusher ride might be more appropriate. The one think I really want to remedy is the nose dive and squat not to mention the body roll and to my surprise my wife also cant stand this factory trait!

I guess my second question would be will this trait go away with kings?

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

I went from Kings to Icon and never looked back. Kings were valved completely wrong in my opinion. Maybe they have changed the valving around to improve this in the last two years, I'm not sure, but I do run the living snot out of my truck in the dirt ( just got back from a trip today actually) and know without a doubt that the Icon stuff is top notch, well developed, and well suited to our trucks. I have over 50K miles on my suspension (Icon Extended resi c/o's and Icon Omega Bypass secondaries in the front and Omega bypass resi's in the rear) and it still amazes me every time I take it out. Icon's customer service is also top notch as many members here can attest.



After my experience with Kings I had a little conversation with a well known local guy with a history in pro off road racing and first hand experience with King and Fox Racing, about the differences in what I found with the Kings vs Icons....

His take (which makes sense to me): King / Fox / Sway Away all make great products, in fact they make FANTASTIC products, BUT.... how much R&D do you think these big boy companies actually put into perfecting the product for the OEM replacement market??? I know for a fact that Icon spends many, many hours lab testing and field testing and tweaking their product to their version of perfect before it hits the market. I kind of doubt that King / Fox / etc. put this much R&D into that particular product.

In short... what it comes down to is this.... The components of Icon, Fox, King, Sway are all top notch, this is inarguable. What sets these guys apart is the little tricks that make the shocks work and work WELL for a street driven truck that sees some dirt from time to time. [MENTION=51030]joneseyyy[/MENTION] made some great points regarding the valving in his post above.

My opinion and experiences.

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I personally do prefer the sportier, stiffer ride quality in which its why I have Icons all the way around on my 2nd gen Tacoma. However the 4runner will be in my wifes' possession 99% of the time therefore I think the plusher ride might be more appropriate. The one think I really want to remedy is the nose dive and squat not to mention the body roll and to my surprise my wife also cant stand this factory trait!

I guess my second question would be will this trait go away with kings?

The increased spring rate of the aftermarket coil over is what is gonna help your nose dive the most and as far as I know, King and Icon both use the same rate of spring ( #650 ), Fox uses a lighter one ( #600 ). The compression / rebound valving helps control the motion and slow things down a bit.

 

[MEMO CAMPOS]

I went from Kings to Icon and never looked back. Kings were valved completely wrong in my opinion. Maybe they have changed the valving around to improve this in the last two years, I'm not sure, but I do run the living snot out of my truck in the dirt ( just got back from a trip today actually) and know without a doubt that the Icon stuff is top notch, well developed, and well suited to our trucks. I have over 50K miles on my suspension (Icon Extended resi c/o's and Icon Omega Bypass secondaries in the front and Omega bypass resi's in the rear) and it still amazes me every time I take it out. Icon's customer service is also top notch as many members here can attest.







After my experience with Kings I had a little conversation with a well known local guy with a history in pro off road racing and first hand experience with King and Fox Racing, about the differences in what I found with the Kings vs Icons....



His take (which makes sense to me): King / Fox / Sway Away all make great products, in fact they make FANTASTIC products, BUT.... how much R&D do you think these big boy companies actually put into perfecting the product for the OEM replacement market??? I know for a fact that Icon spends many, many hours lab testing and field testing and tweaking their product to their version of perfect before it hits the market. I kind of doubt that King / Fox / etc. put this much R&D into that particular product.



In short... what it comes down to is this.... The components of Icon, Fox, King, Sway are all top notch, this is inarguable. What sets these guys apart is the little tricks that make the shocks work and work WELL for a street driven truck that sees some dirt from time to time. [MENTION=51030]joneseyyy[/MENTION] made some great points regarding the valving in his post above.



My opinion and experiences.

This is some incredible information and as I expected its making my decision that much harder. Also is king generally less expensive than icon? I have found better pricing on the king products over icon particularly the rear shocks; $750 vs $979 for icons! What gives?

Thank you so much for the plethora of information! So proud to be a member of this community.

 

[RG79]

Another option is if your looking for a plush ride is to go with the Icon's with the CDC valve. This allows you to adjust the compression and rebound of your coil overs. I have these on mine and love them, I can set them all the way soft and the ride is super soft. On the other hand I can crank them to 5 and it is some what stiff. I had the same dilemma when choosing my shocks King or Icon. I went with Icon and I am super happy. Like SoCalTrail said Icon specializes in OE applications where as King/fox specialize in custom applications.

 

[mgrande]

The increased spring rate of the aftermarket coil over is what is gonna help your nose dive the most and as far as I know, King and Icon both use the same rate of spring ( #650 ), Fox uses a lighter one ( #600 ). The compression / rebound valving helps control the motion and slow things down a bit.

No, icon uses a 13" #650 coil and king uses a 14# #600 coil.

 

[Gabex35]

The increased spring rate of the aftermarket coil over is what is gonna help your nose dive the most and as far as I know, King and Icon both use the same rate of spring ( #650 ), Fox uses a lighter one ( #600 ). The compression / rebound valving helps control the motion and slow things down a bit.

King uses a 550 coil on their oem performance coilovers (for our rigs), but can be ordered with a different spring rate.

Btw, still interested in your take on the KDSS being the "stiff" factor when you were running kings SoCal.

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

King uses a 550 coil on their oem performance coilovers (for our rigs), but can be ordered with a different spring rate.

Btw, still interested in your take on the KDSS being the "stiff" factor when you were running kings SoCal.

Thanks for the correction, I coulda swore they were #650's but after a google search, you are correct.

All the more reason to run Icons - #650 lb springs seem just about right for our trucks.



As far as how KDSS plays with aftermarket coil overs, it does make them seem much stiffer than they are due to the nature of the system. This is partially why I ditched the system all together and really enjoy how the Icon front suspension works. It just plain works.

 

[mgrande]

Are both of y'all sure about that #550 coil? That should be the factory coil rate and #600 is king and fox, with icon at #650. Unless the 5th gen uses softer coils that a tacoma, which it shouldn't since theyre practically the exact same front suspension.

 

[Gabex35]

Are both of y'all sure about that #550 coil? That should be the factory coil rate and #600 is king and fox, with icon at #650. Unless the 5th gen uses softer coils that a tacoma, which it shouldn't since theyre practically the exact same front suspension.

I'm sure. I'm not sure why the tacomas run higher spring rates. A lot of TW guys run 700's with bumpers and winches. I was told by local reputable shop that the FJ's and 4Rs shouldn't go over 650s (on the kings)

 

[MEMO CAMPOS]

Most coilovers have the spring rate stamped on the coil don't they?
I know the icons on my tacoma have it stamped.

Im gonna reach out to king on this, I would think the 4runner is heavier than a taco therefore should come equipped with at least a 600# coil but what do I know. The 550# coil must be the reason for the "plusher" ride the kings are known for.

 

[joneseyyy]

I run 700lb springs on my icons because I run a bumper, winch, and dual battery.

 

[mgrande]

Most coilovers have the spring rate stamped on the coil don't they?
I know the icons on my tacoma have it stamped.

Im gonna reach out to king on this, I would think the 4runner is heavier than a taco therefore should come equipped with at least a 600# coil but what do I know. The 550# coil must be the reason for the "plusher" ride the kings are known for.

I know for tacomas kings come with #600 coils.

 

[mgrande]

Im gonna reach out to king on this

May want to just give Sonny a call at DSM. He'll answer any questions and would be able to valve your coilovers however you like.