eskimochaos
Banned
I have "raced" Hemi cherokees and commanders, its really a non issue. From a dead stop the 4R gets the cake and on the highway as well.
Kudos To Toyota For Giving the V8 the Boot!
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I have "raced" Hemi cherokees and commanders, its really a non issue. From a dead stop the 4R gets the cake and on the highway as well.
T
ToyTech99
Guest
Yeah, I think it's more hype than anything else. They love to talk up the Hemi engine in all of their vehicles, but for some reason they are matched in just about every case. Okay, so maybe the SRT Grand Cherokee is faster than other SUVs, but that's not the case with their other vehicles. Hell, even a 4.6L V8 315 HP Mustang GT can beat up on a Hemi Challenger in a drag race.
the last TLC i've owned (and still own) is a 40th anniversary 80 series decked out in OME and ARB stuff, not exactly a ligthning bolt with the 6 in-line, but that's a high mileage low-revving 6.
the 100 series was underpowered, and neither a capable off roader or on roader. the ones you saw in the middle east, australia, and africa were 105s, live axle turbodiesel variants.
G.I.G.
New member
Wow, that is a pretty bold statement. I think what has made Toyota great are reliable, go anywhere engines AND being able to compete with American V8's. Besides, I would hardly call a 4.7L V8 that gets around 20mpg "bloated".
If someone chooses the V6 over the V8, good for them. But it is at least nice to have the option of a V8.
Simply put, the Japanese SUV's in the 90's were significantly underpowered compared to their US counterparts. When I first started researching the purchase of my first SUV in 2000, I was very discouraged by the lack of power in the 4R, Xterra, Pathfinder, Rodeo, etc. I ended up purchasing a used Jeep Grand Cherokee and was very pleased with it despite it's poor reliability ratings.
After owning two GC's, I started looking into 4R's because they had finally stepped up, with both their V6 and V8's, to compete with American SUV's in the power department. I feel that I have the best of both worlds now in the 4R: a well built, reliable AND powerful SUV.
I don't tow, but I like the power curve of a V8 better than a V6. I test drove both the V8 and V6 4R back-to-back along the same stretch of highway and roads here in CO. While the V6 was certainly no schlep (and actually surprised me how well it performed), it had to do a lot more downshifting than the V8 under the same conditions. Under the "real world" driving conditions I put both the V6 and V8 4R through, they got almost exactly the same MPG's according to the lie-o-meter that I reset before each test drive, roughly 18.5 MPG's.
The other point people often overlook is that in order to squeeze out more performance from those V6's, car manufacturers are giving up MPG's with larger displacement V6's and higher compression ratios. There is a negative stigma in this country around "gas guzzling V8's" but there is still demand for them, especially as auto manufactures improve performance and MPG's. Besides, putting a gas guzzling V6 in an SUV is no better than a gas guzzling V8. My V8 4R gets better MPG's than my wife's old Pathfinder and my friend's new Xterra, again, in "real world" diving conditions.
So by not having a V8 as an option in the new 4R, I think Toyota is missing a market segment that still demands more performance and towing capacity out of a mid-sized SUV. I bet we see the new 4.6L V8 in the 4R at the mid-generation refresh, if not sooner.
Finally.....there is no replacement for displacement! :biggrin2:
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ToyTech99
Guest
Don't tell that to Jeep. They are using their new V6 in many of their new vehicles (Chrysler too), which is a smallish 3.6L and gets 4Runner V6 type fuel economy with 4Runner V8 type power. Now if they can just make it so it's reliable, they have a winner.
Co.Ag.2005
New member
Nice post, G.I.G.
I tested a V6 4R and a V8 4R from Stevinson West and they allowed me to drive each up to my house in Evergreen. Since my commute is to/from downtown Denver/Evergreen, I wanted something that made it up mountain passes, etc. very well with decent fuel economy. Well, based on the I-70 West test, you can see what I chose in my sig
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Well all I can say is I've been driving around in a V-6 powered loaner '09 Toyota Sienna the last few days (while Lexus fixes the sunroof on my GX470) and I REALLY miss my 4.7 V8. Sure, a Toyota V6 is a great engine (the 3.4 in my old '00 was very good engine) and it will be a fine engine for the 5th gen, but it simply falls short of the 4.7 V8 in terms of smooth effortless power delivery - anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves IMO. The V6 simply can't replicate the feel of having 320 lb/ft (or whatever it is) of torque at super low RPMs produced by the 4.7 V8. The only reason IMO that Toyota is dropping the V8 from the 5th gen is because of the Great Recession - if the economy picks up again I fully expect to see the new 4.6 V8 in the '11 or '12 model year 
Edit: they just called and said my GX is fixed - woohoo! I feel like such a P@#$y driving around in this minivan
Edit: they just called and said my GX is fixed - woohoo! I feel like such a P@#$y driving around in this minivan
eskimochaos
Banned
Well all I can say is I've been driving around in a V-6 powered loaner '09 Toyota Sienna the last few days (while Lexus fixes the sunroof on my GX470) and I REALLY miss my 4.7 V8. Sure, a Toyota V6 is a great engine (the 3.4 in my old '00 was very good engine) and it will be a fine engine for the 5th gen, but it simply falls short of the 4.7 V8 in terms of smooth effortless power delivery - anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves IMO. The V6 simply can't replicate the feel of having 320 lb/ft (or whatever it is) of torque at super low RPMs produced by the 4.7 V8. The only reason IMO that Toyota is dropping the V8 from the 5th gen is because of the Great Recession - if the economy picks up again I fully expect to see the new 4.6 V8 in the '11 or '12 model year
Edit: they just called and said my GX is fixed - woohoo! I feel like such a P@#$y driving around in this minivan
Any guy that drives a minivan voluntarily as his DD is a p****. Look at them on the highways, they just look So Gay
As you said, nothing beats the low end grunt from a v8...or the sound!!!!!
G.I.G.
New member
Well all I can say is I've been driving around in a V-6 powered loaner '09 Toyota Sienna the last few days (while Lexus fixes the sunroof on my GX470) and I REALLY miss my 4.7 V8. Sure, a Toyota V6 is a great engine (the 3.4 in my old '00 was very good engine) and it will be a fine engine for the 5th gen, but it simply falls short of the 4.7 V8 in terms of smooth effortless power delivery - anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves IMO. The V6 simply can't replicate the feel of having 320 lb/ft (or whatever it is) of torque at super low RPMs produced by the 4.7 V8. The only reason IMO that Toyota is dropping the V8 from the 5th gen is because of the Great Recession - if the economy picks up again I fully expect to see the new 4.6 V8 in the '11 or '12 model year
Edit: they just called and said my GX is fixed - woohoo! I feel like such a P@#$y driving around in this minivan
Agreed. And while the new 4.0L V6 is seeing a hefty HP increase (up by 32hp), it is only get a measly 7ft lbs of torque. That hardly fills the void of a 330 lbs-ft or torque producing V8.
And if you felt lame driving around a minivan while they fixed your GX, I was stuck with a Prius when my dealer had my 4R. Lame!
andyman32392
New member
The V6 is now more powerful
Has everyone forgotten about the fact that the new V6 has more power than the V8 did? That means that the towing fact will not be effected. So why do you think it won't be as powerful?:bash:
Has everyone forgotten about the fact that the new V6 has more power than the V8 did? That means that the towing fact will not be effected. So why do you think it won't be as powerful?:bash:
G.I.G.
New member
Nice post, G.I.G.
I tested a V6 4R and a V8 4R from Stevinson West and they allowed me to drive each up to my house in Evergreen. Since my commute is to/from downtown Denver/Evergreen, I wanted something that made it up mountain passes, etc. very well with decent fuel economy. Well, based on the I-70 West test, you can see what I chose in my sig
That's exactly what I did. I bought my 4R from Automotive Avenues in Lakewood off of 6th ave. They work as an auto broker so they brought me two 4R's to test drive from Burt Toyota, one with the V6 and one with the V8. I took them both out on the same test drive on 6th to I-70 then up to the second Genesee exit and back. While both engines performed well, the V8 seemed to be in more of a "comfort zone", for lack of a better term. And again, they both got virtually the same mileage doing the exact same test drive under the exact same driving conditions.
HP does not equal TQ, and the V8 still has more which make the difference when towing.
No we (or at least I
) haven't forgotten - heck even the original '03 V6 had more horsepower than the '03/'04 V8. But for a body on frame type SUV that has some medium duty towing and off-roading aspirations that weighs over 4,000 lbs, low-end torque numbers are waaaaay more important that horsepower. Would you like to have the engine from the Honda S2000 in your T4R? Probably not - but it would sure sound good when it hit 8,000 rpm Don't get me wrong, the new and improved V6 will still be a good engine for the 5th gen and I would certainly consider getting one if that's all they have to offer - but I still think it would be great to offer the V8 for those that would need and/or want the 4.6. Toyota has obviously made a decision not to do so (at least for now) given the current state of the economy. Although I read that Bernanke said the recession is "likely"
over, so who knows - maybe wie'll see the 4.6 in a T4R by '11.
Scoobs
Member
I know my 3.5 V6 RAV4 Sport will smoke my 4.7 4R LTD in a straight line to 60 , but the 4.7 feels so much better getting there.
One question that remains unanswered is why Toyota can get a good exhaust note out of the 2GR-FE 3.5 V6 but not out of the 1GR-FE 4.0 V6 ? And I know it's not displacement that is the issue.
One question that remains unanswered is why Toyota can get a good exhaust note out of the 2GR-FE 3.5 V6 but not out of the 1GR-FE 4.0 V6 ? And I know it's not displacement that is the issue.
G.I.G.
New member
Not true.
What is your definition of "more power"? There is horsepower, and there is torque. As I mentioned above, the new 4.0L V6 will be seeing 32 additional HP, but only 7 additional ft lbs of torque. The new horsepower rating will get the new V6 on par with the 4.7L V8, but it still falls well short of the 330 ft lbs of torque the V8 produces.
Another important issue to point out is that people often overlook where that power is achieved. It's often referred to as the "power curve" or "power band". If that power band is too high (close to red line) it is not as desirable, especially for truck and SUV applications. Yes, there are a lot of V6's out there that have the same, or better, HP ratings than V8's. However, if that peak HP comes at 5k or 6k rpm's, it is not as usable.
Toyota is moving in the right direction regarding power, mileage, and efficiency. But again, there is no replacement for displacement. I'd really like to see the 4.6L V8 as an option down the road with the 4R.
jmc8387
New member
Hahaha...I feel your pain on being seen in a Prius. My wife and I had one as a rental car once a couple years ago. I felt like such a nerd. Never again will we rent one of those.
I'll go one step further than that. They don't offer it, I ain't buying one.
G.I.G.
New member
I'm in the same boat. As it stands right now, I'm holding out for the 6th gen. At the very least, I'm hoping they bring back the projector headlights, get rid of the mast antenna, and offer the 4.6L V8 at the mid-generation refresh. One can only hope....
Besides, my '07 4R has just over 37k miles right now. She's good for another 250k miles I'm think'n. :biggrin2:
Do you understand the difference between torque and horsepower? Do you know what a torque curve is and why a lot of torque at low RPM is a good thing, especially when towing? Did you compare the peak torque ratings of the new V6 with the old V8?
Might I suggest that you investigate those subjects and then revisit your post?
T
ToyTech99
Guest
The exhaust system on both the V6 and V8 4Runner is virtually the same. It was obviously tuned with the V8 in mind, but it also works well with the V6.
