Let's talk Long Travel

[wfo9]

Ok. Here is an attempt to get a useful (at least to me) thread going. I'm so bored with all the same old threads about..... here

So, my truck pretty much already does what I need it to do. It will go just about anywhere that is reasonable without any issues. I also have a trail toy for doing the truly insane... BUT, something still drives me to keep making the 4r more capable. It's just fun to keep evolving it and I recently ran across some unexpected bonus funds....So why the heck not. It makes me smile and forget about negative things, so I'm going to keep doing it.

Several factors have kept me from doing LT in the front.
1. Cost
2. Reliability
3. No ability to run a sway bar

I'm not too concerned with any of those now. Mainly #3 for road use, but I think the wider track + some adjustable dampening coil overs should make it decent on the road.

I'm not looking to do anything high speed at all. My main desire for LT is more drop (down travel) and better articulation and stability in the rocks. I would also like to possibly add a little more lift without bad CV angles (probably run 4"). I'm not very concerned with up travel and don't mind limiting it with some bump stops.


The TC 2" kit plus some wheel spacers for the rear is my first thought, but 3.5" might be the way to go. There does not seem to be much info out there... Here are some questions to get the conversation going.

1. Anyone know of a good vendor to work with on a LT setup. I would obviously be doing the install myself. I just need advice on the components. I figured I might try calling MT....

2. How much down travel is approximately gained with the TC 2" setup vs 3.5. I know the total travel numbers... But I'll most likely need to extend my bump stops...

3. How do you build up new longer CVs and what is the best choice for the axle vendor

4. What about tie rods

5. Limit straps... What shocks require vs don't require them. I'm looking for max down travel.

6. What 5th gens have LT up front now or have it in the build plans.

7. Clearance. who thinks the fenders could be used without modification. I'll be running my 34" MTRs, which clear now when the alignment is right.
:cheers:

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Looking at your upgrades list in your sig line AND the fact that you say the truck does everything you want it to do, but you are bored I am going to go into Dad mode:

1) How old are you?
2) How do your investments look?
3) What are your retirement plans?

Boring I know. But I made enough money to buy Miami when I was younger but I pissed it away so fast (quote from a favorite song you may or may not know).

We all know all these mods like you are talking about have maybe a penny on the dollar ROI.

You say the vehicle does exactly what you need. Why not look at option B for your windfall (save it)?

 

[marshal]

Looking at your upgrades list in your sig line AND the fact that you say the truck does everything you want it to do, but you are bored I am going to go into Dad mode:

1) How old are you?
2) How do your investments look?
3) What are your retirement plans?

Boring I know. But I made enough money to buy Miami when I was younger but I pissed it away so fast (quote from a favorite song you may or may not know).

We all know all these mods like you are talking about have maybe a penny on the dollar ROI.

You say the vehicle does exactly what you need. Why not look at option B for your windfall (save it)?

he has a 4Runner with long travel rear suspension, i don't think investments and ROI's are valid topics in the conversation. his ROI has more to do with smiles than financial gains.

 

[marshal]

Ok. Here is an attempt to get a useful (at least to me) thread going. I'm so bored with all the same old threads about..... here

So, my truck pretty much already does what I need it to do. It will go just about anywhere that is reasonable without any issues. I also have a trail toy for doing the truly insane... BUT, something still drives me to keep making the 4r more capable. It's just fun to keep evolving it and I recently ran across some unexpected bonus funds....So why the heck not. It makes me smile and forget about negative things, so I'm going to keep doing it.

Several factors have kept me from doing LT in the front.
1. Cost
2. Reliability
3. No ability to run a sway bar

I'm not too concerned with any of those now. Mainly #3 for road use, but I think the wider track + some adjustable dampening coil overs should make it decent on the road.

I'm not looking to do anything high speed at all. My main desire for LT is more drop (down travel) and better articulation and stability in the rocks. I would also like to possibly add a little more lift without bad CV angles (probably run 4"). I'm not very concerned with up travel and don't mind limiting it with some bump stops.


The TC 2" kit plus some wheel spacers for the rear is my first thought, but 3.5" might be the way to go. There does not seem to be much info out there... Here are some questions to get the conversation going.

1. Anyone know of a good vendor to work with on a LT setup. I would obviously be doing the install myself. I just need advice on the components. I figured I might try calling MT....

2. How much down travel is approximately gained with the TC 2" setup vs 3.5. I know the total travel numbers... But I'll most likely need to extend my bump stops...

3. How do you build up new longer CVs and what is the best choice for the axle vendor

4. What about tie rods

5. Limit straps... What shocks require vs don't require them. I'm looking for max down travel.

6. What 5th gens have LT up front now or have it in the build plans.

7. Clearance. who thinks the fenders could be used without modification. I'll be running my 34" MTRs, which clear now when the alignment is right.
:cheers:

the cost is very high. you're talking about $6000 for a camburg 3.5" LT in the front with king coilovers WITHOUT DSC and air bumps and extended shafts. Add in DSC, a bypass shock and heim end upgrades and you're at almost $8000 for your front suspension alone, without even tackling the no sway-bar part yet.

reliability would be a moot point, you're replacing OEM components with race grade stuff - the trouble that you'll run into is heim joints that start squeaking and shocks that need to be rebuilt.

the sway bar is obviously a big concern. without ponying up for a bypass shock to pair with your DSC coilovers there isn't a way to come close to regaining sway control without a sway bar. Sway-A-Way and Currie Enterprises both make race ready super compact torsion bars, but they're all custom applications for mounting and its up to you to determine what the proper resistance would be and how to balance that off road and on road.

I personally think metal tech is a joke because of their unwillingness to use anything but Icon coilovers, which are not race grade equipment and are not up to the task for handling the stressors of the massively increased leverage placed upon the coilover on the long travel setup.

the TC 2" setup is a 12" travel system. what that equates to as far as down travel - i don't know, but you get your money's worth out of a LT suspension you'll need to cut your fenders up or run smaller tires - i went with the prior. The camburg 3.5" setup is 14" of vertical travel on the 4x4 systems, which is a lot any way you dice it.

the kits should come with tie-rod replacements, and several of them like TC and Camburg have heim upgrade kits to get rid of the TREs.

YOU MUST RUN LIMIT STRAPS. race grade shocks are NOT built to handle excessive bottoming out, and many come with warranty stipulations highlighting that and it being grounds for void. their internal bump stops are not strong enough to support the weight of the vehicle on compression or the weight of the attached components at full droop. so air bumps and limit straps must be used.

as far as i know, the only 4Runner that is going to be running a LT front is what his face on toyota120 that is going to be pushing 37" toyos, and he's using the TC 2" kit because he didnt want it to be too wide.

fenders are going to be a big issue unless you bump stop the shit out of the suspension, which you can do and still be very capable. there isnt any way around using ALL of the available travel without cutting up your fenders. if you stick your head in your well, assuming you don't have liners - you'll see the flare edge is a solid 2.5" lower than the highest point of the wheel well

 

[4RunnerAU]

Damn, I thought this was going to be a thread about road trips. Bye felicias. (Exitthread.gif)

 

[LawnDart]

Goddamn, Will, my hard-on just became flaccid reading that.

I want Long Travel, but I know it's a fairly involved affair for sure.

the cost is very high. you're talking about $6000 for a camburg 3.5" LT in the front with king coilovers WITHOUT DSC and air bumps and extended shafts. Add in DSC, a bypass shock and heim end upgrades and you're at almost $8000 for your front suspension alone, without even tackling the no sway-bar part yet.

reliability would be a moot point, you're replacing OEM components with race grade stuff - the trouble that you'll run into is heim joints that start squeaking and shocks that need to be rebuilt.

the sway bar is obviously a big concern. without ponying up for a bypass shock to pair with your DSC coilovers there isn't a way to come close to regaining sway control without a sway bar. Sway-A-Way and Currie Enterprises both make race ready super compact torsion bars, but they're all custom applications for mounting and its up to you to determine what the proper resistance would be and how to balance that off road and on road.

I personally think metal tech is a joke because of their unwillingness to use anything but Icon coilovers, which are not race grade equipment and are not up to the task for handling the stressors of the massively increased leverage placed upon the coilover on the long travel setup.

the TC 2" setup is a 12" travel system. what that equates to as far as down travel - i don't know, but you get your money's worth out of a LT suspension you'll need to cut your fenders up or run smaller tires - i went with the prior. The camburg 3.5" setup is 14" of vertical travel on the 4x4 systems, which is a lot any way you dice it.

the kits should come with tie-rod replacements, and several of them like TC and Camburg have heim upgrade kits to get rid of the TREs.

YOU MUST RUN LIMIT STRAPS. race grade shocks are NOT built to handle excessive bottoming out, and many come with warranty stipulations highlighting that and it being grounds for void. their internal bump stops are not strong enough to support the weight of the vehicle on compression or the weight of the attached components at full droop. so air bumps and limit straps must be used.

as far as i know, the only 4Runner that is going to be running a LT front is what his face on toyota120 that is going to be pushing 37" toyos, and he's using the TC 2" kit because he didnt want it to be too wide.

fenders are going to be a big issue unless you bump stop the shit out of the suspension, which you can do and still be very capable. there isnt any way around using ALL of the available travel without cutting up your fenders. if you stick your head in your well, assuming you don't have liners - you'll see the flare edge is a solid 2.5" lower than the highest point of the wheel well

 

[Taco04]

Nice to see this as a topic! I just sent a PM to Mikey yesterday about the glass works fenders and nothing yet... Today I ordered a set of Kings with extended travel and all the bells & whistles. I am most likely going with the TC 2" kit but the Camburg kit is the top of the game and tempting. I plan on sticking with 33's but I agree with Marshal the sway bar is a big deal! I wonder how firm you can get the shocks with just the compression adjusters even though it' just a band aid of sorts...

 

[marshal]

Goddamn, Will, my hard-on just became flaccid reading that.

I want Long Travel, but I know it's a fairly involved affair for sure.

if you go all out 3.5" long travel in the front, and get the necessary associated goodies to go with it - you're only about a grand shy of a 1 ton solid axle swap in the front using a new housing.

if you want to go the garbage can rout and pick up a set of used 1 ton axles out of some truck that you happen to like - the SAS conversion starts to look pretty good, and if you do it right is exceptionally streetable. the only issue is, who do you know that is exceptional at fabricating custom front suspensions.

I've been down this rabbit hole for a long time now, and i know personally a significant portion of people in the US offroad industry - and i can say without a doubt there are only 4 people in the country that i can name off the top of my head that i would let fab up a solid axle link set on my truck.

Nice to see this as a topic! I just sent a PM to Mikey yesterday about the glass works fenders and nothing yet... Today I ordered a set of Kings with extended travel and all the bells & whistles. I am most likely going with the TC 2" kit but the Camburg kit is the top of the game and tempting. I plan on sticking with 33's but I agree with Marshal the sway bar is a big deal! I wonder how firm you can get the shocks with just the compression adjusters even though it' just a band aid of sorts...

the adjusters alone won't cut it, to get anywhere close you'll need to pair those with bypass shocks

 

[LawnDart]

I actually drove to Christmas Valley in MetalTech's FJC, and they call it long travel but it's really extended travel, and my god did that thing sway. I felt sick by the time we hit Bend, OR.

 

[Slow]

Man I would love to do this but not in the cards right now.
IMO i would stick with a 2in LT 3.5 is probably going to far for most uses you would also be adding a good amount more trac with the 3.5 really necessitating new fenders then. Axle swap using you current cv's as donors or new oem and a vice would suffice. Bypass all the way for manners
You could also considered the AP 2in kit although i am partial to TC.

Today I ordered a set of Kings with extended travel and all the bells & whistles. I am most likely going with the TC 2" kit but the Camburg kit is the top of the game and tempting. I plan on sticking with 33's but I agree with Marshal the sway bar is a big deal!

You Got the wrong shocks if you are going TC LT right away! I am also pulling the trigger in the next week or so on some ET king fronts and custom length rear LT Kings.

 

[Taco04]

Man I would love to do this but not in the cards right now.
IMO i would stick with a 2in LT 3.5 is probably going to far for most uses you would also be adding a good amount more trac with the 3.5 really necessitating new fenders then. Axle swap using you current cv's as donors or new oem and a vice would suffice. Bypass all the way for manners
You could also considered the AP 2in kit although i am partial to TC.

You Got the wrong shocks if you are going TC LT right away! I am also pulling the trigger in the next week or so on some ET king fronts and custom length rear LT Kings.

Ah you got me I ordered the LTs as well longer = extended @ least that's what she says! lol:cheers:
I ordered them specifically for the 2" TC kit so I am sure they got the right ones..

 

[Blitzkrieg]

he has a 4Runner with long travel rear suspension, i don't think investments and ROI's are valid topics in the conversation. his ROI has more to do with smiles than financial gains.

Okay. Then I'll STFU.

 

[Slow]

Ah you got me I ordered the ETs as well extended = longer @ least that's what she says! lol:cheers:

Just making sure ET and LT are 2 different things lol

 

[Taco04]

Just making sure ET and LT are 2 different things lol

Is that pic from the MR? I was there a week ago and if so that cotton wood tree has fallen across the tank kinda sad... Nice country really enjoyed that trip and look forward to going again! PS what kings are your running for the rear? Part#?

 

[wfo9]

the cost is very high. you're talking about $6000 for a camburg 3.5" LT in the front with king coilovers WITHOUT DSC and air bumps and extended shafts. Add in DSC, a bypass shock and heim end upgrades and you're at almost $8000 for your front suspension alone, without even tackling the no sway-bar part yet.

reliability would be a moot point, you're replacing OEM components with race grade stuff - the trouble that you'll run into is heim joints that start squeaking and shocks that need to be rebuilt.

the sway bar is obviously a big concern. without ponying up for a bypass shock to pair with your DSC coilovers there isn't a way to come close to regaining sway control without a sway bar. Sway-A-Way and Currie Enterprises both make race ready super compact torsion bars, but they're all custom applications for mounting and its up to you to determine what the proper resistance would be and how to balance that off road and on road.

I personally think metal tech is a joke because of their unwillingness to use anything but Icon coilovers, which are not race grade equipment and are not up to the task for handling the stressors of the massively increased leverage placed upon the coilover on the long travel setup.

the TC 2" setup is a 12" travel system. what that equates to as far as down travel - i don't know, but you get your money's worth out of a LT suspension you'll need to cut your fenders up or run smaller tires - i went with the prior. The camburg 3.5" setup is 14" of vertical travel on the 4x4 systems, which is a lot any way you dice it.

the kits should come with tie-rod replacements, and several of them like TC and Camburg have heim upgrade kits to get rid of the TREs.

YOU MUST RUN LIMIT STRAPS. race grade shocks are NOT built to handle excessive bottoming out, and many come with warranty stipulations highlighting that and it being grounds for void. their internal bump stops are not strong enough to support the weight of the vehicle on compression or the weight of the attached components at full droop. so air bumps and limit straps must be used.

as far as i know, the only 4Runner that is going to be running a LT front is what his face on toyota120 that is going to be pushing 37" toyos, and he's using the TC 2" kit because he didnt want it to be too wide.

fenders are going to be a big issue unless you bump stop the shit out of the suspension, which you can do and still be very capable. there isnt any way around using ALL of the available travel without cutting up your fenders. if you stick your head in your well, assuming you don't have liners - you'll see the flare edge is a solid 2.5" lower than the highest point of the wheel well

I'm not clear on the need for bypass or highly specialized race shocks.... I'm not interested in high speed wheeling at all. No jump or whoops for me. I like slow speed trail running and also drive on the road to get places. I don't see why ICON or Radflo shocks would not be up to the task. They work well in std travel setups and while long travel needs are typically different, they don't seem that different for a trail rig. It just needs to be valved for the additional leverage. Seems simple enough to me, but I may be missing something.

And like I said, I don't really care much about up travel gains. I'm perfectly fine loosing a little if I can gain a few more down.

I was thinking 5k total investment (which I could gain some back by selling my current coil overs and UCAs).

I don't mind taking the flare off... I'll come up with something to make it look decent... and again I don't mind extending the bump stops.

I'm not set on doing this... Just sure seems like it could be fun.

 

[marshal]

I'm not clear on the need for bypass or highly specialized race shocks.... I'm not interested in high speed wheeling at all. No jump or whoops for me. I like slow speed trail running and also drive on the road to get places. I don't see why ICON or Radflo shocks would not be up to the task. They work well in std travel setups and while long travel needs are typically different, they don't seem that different for a trail rig. It just needs to be valved for the additional leverage. Seems simple enough to me, but I may be missing something.

And like I said, I don't really care much about up travel gains. I'm perfectly fine loosing a little if I can gain a few more down.

I was thinking 5k total investment (which I could gain some back by selling my current coil overs and UCAs).

I don't mind taking the flare off... I'll come up with something to make it look decent... and again I don't mind extending the bump stops.

I'm not set on doing this... Just sure seems like it could be fun.

the bypass is what would help you regain your roll control. the bypass is essentially set up as a reactive damper - how it behaves is solely based on what you do to it.

i personally do not believe the build quality of icon or radflo is up to the magnified demands of a LT setup.

taking the flare off will do nothing, you'd only gain an 1/8th of an inch of clearance - i was just using it as a visual reference for the low point. you'd need to break out the sawsall

most kits come with everything you need, and let you option in your coilover, bumpstop, heim upgrade and axle shaft preferences. seems like SDHQ is the best online vendor for camburg stuff if you're willing to do 3.5" wider on each side. totalautomotive would probably have your back for TC.

 

[1engineer]

I say go for it if that's what you want. Eventually though as I'm sure you know the further you go from stock the less street-able they become. Oh they can be driven on the street it just becomes a chore to do so. Good luck and yeah you will have to strap it.

 

[Slow]

Is that pic from the MR? I was there a week ago and if so that cotton wood tree has fallen across the tank kinda sad... Nice country really enjoyed that trip and look forward to going again! PS what kings are your running for the rear? Part#?

Yes that is at government holes. Love that area.
Nothing special on the rears just custom length 2.5 smoothie post/stud mount. Agonized over swapping over upper mounts to accommodate a raised eye mount for a true LT rear but after talking with my buddy i think i will stick with the stock stud/location for now. But hey i am not buying for another week or so so that may change i flip flop a lot lol

 

[wfo9]

I say go for it if that's what you want. Eventually though as I'm sure you know the further you go from stock the less street-able they become. Oh they can be driven on the street it just becomes a chore to do so. Good luck and yeah you will have to strap it.

Still don't fully understand the need for limit straps. The same basic shocks work without straps. So why the need with a longer control arm and UCA? I get that some shocks require them because of the internals and I also understand for the need for high speed jumping.... but 2" of leverage pulling down makes that much of a difference in typical use? I would throw them on... but just seems optional from a common sense perspective.

 

[1engineer]

Still don't fully understand the need for limit straps. The same basic shocks work without straps. So why the need with a longer control arm and UCA? I get that some shocks require them because of the internals and I also understand for the need for high speed jumping.... but 2" of leverage pulling down makes that much of a difference in typical use? I would throw them on... but just seems optional from a common sense perspective.

In an almost static condition like slow speed droop to max you would probably be fine. In a higher speed dynamic application where the suspension can go to full droop suddenly you have to deal with not only the static mass but the additional force caused by gravity which will be much higher force.