Lift Math, Plan and Logic Sanity Check

[Jabberjaw]

Set the stage (yes, I've stated this before) ...90% DD and 10% trails. This is not going to be a rock crawler so much as an expedition rig, but I want it capable to handle rocks, crossings, etc. The only armor I'll be adding is sliders and maybe some belly plates. I don't plan on adding bumpers ...but a Slimline SS with a winch isn't out of the question.




On a 2015 SR5

Bilstein 5100 struts set at 0 (lowest perch) with OME 883 springs would give me 2" front lift.

Bilstein 5100 shocks and Toytec Superflex springs would give me 2" rear lift.

This would maintain the rake in the front and NOT require UCAs, correct? Would this lift require relocating the front sway bar?

Thoughts on Superflex vs SAW?


IF I WENT WITH:

Bilstein 5100 struts set at 0 (lowest perch) with OME 884 springs would give me 2.5" front lift.

With the same rear set up, it would level me out, correct?


Is anyone running either of these options? Likes/dislikes? If you were to do it again you would ________________.


Thanks in advance.

 

[3wbdriver]

This is mine with 5100's all around. Set @0 with OME 885's in the front to offset the weight of the SSS bumper and winch. Toytec Superflex 2" rears and nothing loaded in the back. So with 883 or 884 in the front and 0 on the setting you should end up with something along these lines. It's taken me a little while to get used to it because I was running level or slightly reverse rake for the first year. No sway bar relocate and I'm nowhere near any real caster in the front because I am still running factory UCA's, but it handles fine. If this looks good to you then you should be fine. Or you might consider running SAW 1.5's in the back to cut down slightly on the rear lift. In hindsight I might have gone with the SAW's, because I really liked the leveled look. This way I feel like I have returned to the factory rake.



This was OME's in the front with 1.25" spacers on factory rear springs. So I'm guessing the SAW's would be somewhere in the middle.

 

[Jhalko]

I am at about 2.5" up front with stock UCA's but i think I'm going to get new ones this summer, it's a little twitchy on the highway. The spring rate on the SAW rear coils is the same as the super flex so that might work better if you only do 2" up front.

 

[Vrrooom]

Why not just go with a full OME setup as they look very level as well.

 

[st8rocks]

Why not just go with a full OME setup as they look very level as well.

You will lose the comforts of a nice factory ride going with OME which is why I saved my pennies and invested in Icon. OME is an expo setup designed to carry lots of weight. I have had OME in my Rav, 3rd gen, and Landcruiser. All were stiff and a little bouncy. Overall a great upgrade but not designed for comfort.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Quick question, How much are you spending after sourcing all those parts including shipping? Compare that to the $1300 that the toytec BOSS ultimate costs. for probably just a few hundred extra you get a complete matched suspension package that is engineered to work together and has a reputable company standing behind their product. Plus its adjustable!!!! If you don't like the rake it has when your done you can change it for free(sans alignment costs)

Im not a sales guy for toytec by anymeans, but out of the hundreds of 4 runners(and tundras/tacos) I've lifted I haven't had one single issue with any of toytecs products.

Also while not required the UCAs make a very noticeable difference in handling when the vehicle is properly aligned following install. save up the extra 6-700 and just do it all at once.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

What about Bilstein 5100 @ 2.5 with a Daystar and 5100's in the rear?

 

[Jabberjaw]

This is mine with 5100's all around. Set @0 with OME 885's in the front to offset the weight of the SSS bumper and winch. Toytec Superflex 2" rears and nothing loaded in the back. So with 883 or 884 in the front and 0 on the setting you should end up with something along these lines. It's taken me a little while to get used to it because I was running level or slightly reverse rake for the first year. No sway bar relocate and I'm nowhere near any real caster in the front because I am still running factory UCA's, but it handles fine. If this looks good to you then you should be fine. Or you might consider running SAW 1.5's in the back to cut down slightly on the rear lift. In hindsight I might have gone with the SAW's, because I really liked the leveled look. This way I feel like I have returned to the factory rake.



This was OME's in the front with 1.25" spacers on factory rear springs. So I'm guessing the SAW's would be somewhere in the middle.

Looks nice.

Quick question, How much are you spending after sourcing all those parts including shipping? Compare that to the $1300 that the toytec BOSS ultimate costs. for probably just a few hundred extra you get a complete matched suspension package that is engineered to work together and has a reputable company standing behind their product. Plus its adjustable!!!! If you don't like the rake it has when your done you can change it for free(sans alignment costs)

Im not a sales guy for toytec by anymeans, but out of the hundreds of 4 runners(and tundras/tacos) I've lifted I haven't had one single issue with any of toytecs products.

Also while not required the UCAs make a very noticeable difference in handling when the vehicle is properly aligned following install. save up the extra 6-700 and just do it all at once.

A BOSS system isn't out of the question. I'm not a virgin builder and believe in doing it right(ish) the first time. This is my first non-Jeep build, so I'm still absorbing the learning curve.

 

[3wbdriver]

A BOSS system isn't out of the question. I'm not a virgin builder and believe in doing it right(ish) the first time. This is my first non-Jeep build, so I'm still absorbing the learning curve.

Smart move. I have been adding parts as my plans changed and as they became available after the initial Bilstein install. If you are seriously considering the SSS bumper and a winch I can tell you there would be about a 3/4" droop on the factory front springs. The ride was still fine but I lost the "soft" part of the spring. The total weight of that bumper and winch came to ~150lbs for figuring aftermarket spring purchase. The 885's were just about perfect to offset that, but it took a few hundred miles of driving for them to settle in a little. Part of my reason for the rear Toytecs is that there is a rear bumper somewhere in my future. Good luck with your build. :biggrin2:

 

[cjacob316]

Quick question, How much are you spending after sourcing all those parts including shipping? Compare that to the $1300 that the toytec BOSS ultimate costs. for probably just a few hundred extra you get a complete matched suspension package that is engineered to work together and has a reputable company standing behind their product. Plus its adjustable!!!! If you don't like the rake it has when your done you can change it for free(sans alignment costs)

Im not a sales guy for toytec by anymeans, but out of the hundreds of 4 runners(and tundras/tacos) I've lifted I haven't had one single issue with any of toytecs products.

Also while not required the UCAs make a very noticeable difference in handling when the vehicle is properly aligned following install. save up the extra 6-700 and just do it all at once.

I priced this out using the toytec adjustable coilovers for the front and the saw springs in the rear because I want a 2"/1.5" and it came out about $400 cheaper. You probably have to think that for some people that are looking into 5100's rather than more expensive options, $400 may be a good chunk of change

 

[Scott@Hightech]

I priced this out using the toytec adjustable coilovers for the front and the saw springs in the rear because I want a 2"/1.5" and it came out about $400 cheaper. You probably have to think that for some people that are looking into 5100's rather than more expensive options, $400 may be a good chunk of change

So you were able to save $400 by just using different rear springs(Toytec rear springs only cost $200)? Were you pricing out this kit?
Front adjustable coil over kit with Bilstein 5100's

There is a big difference in using that kit as opposed to this one that includes the new strut mount. that difference is about an good bit worth of work and the need for a strut compressor. then you have to set your ride height as well. 95% of the time the complete kit comes preset to the perfect ride height which also saves time.
http://toyteclifts.3dcartstores.com/ToytecBilstein-5100-adjustable-coilovers-_p_1171.html

Either way I'm not here to sell products for toytec. To some the extra work maybe more of a headache, others may not mind doing more work to save some money. That's why there are tons of options. Im simply saying, buying a complete suspension that is all designed to work together is much easier than piecing together components from multiple companies and making them work right. We do this all the time on jeeps and people are often unsatisfied.

TLDR: whatever company you want to use parts from use ALL their parts for the best results, IE: complete OME or all toytec or all ICON, etc.

 

[Sunriser]

Quick question, How much are you spending after sourcing all those parts including shipping? Compare that to the $1300 that the toytec BOSS ultimate costs. for probably just a few hundred extra you get a complete matched suspension package that is engineered to work together and has a reputable company standing behind their product. Plus its adjustable!!!! If you don't like the rake it has when your done you can change it for free(sans alignment costs)

Sorry for a possible thread hijack, but I've been looking at the Toytec Boss. 3" lift is overkill for me. Are the Toytec's adjustable in the rear to 1.5"? Since this would be my first build / modification, I really like the idea of being able to adjust things if I find out my first pass isn't what I'd expected.

I'm very interested in this build. Thanks.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

sorry for a possible thread hijack, but i've been looking at the toytec boss. 3" lift is overkill for me. Are the toytec's adjustable in the rear to 1.5"? Since this would be my first build / modification, i really like the idea of being able to adjust things if i find out my first pass isn't what i'd expected.

I'm very interested in this build. Thanks.

>>>>>no<<<<<

 

[cjacob316]

So you were able to save $400 by just using different rear springs(Toytec rear springs only cost $200)? Were you pricing out this kit?
Front adjustable coil over kit with Bilstein 5100's

There is a big difference in using that kit as opposed to this one that includes the new strut mount. that difference is about an good bit worth of work and the need for a strut compressor. then you have to set your ride height as well. 95% of the time the complete kit comes preset to the perfect ride height which also saves time.
ToyTec Coil Overs (95.5-04 Taco & 96-02 4RUN)

Either way I'm not here to sell products for toytec. To some the extra work maybe more of a headache, others may not mind doing more work to save some money. That's why there are tons of options. Im simply saying, buying a complete suspension that is all designed to work together is much easier than piecing together components from multiple companies and making them work right. We do this all the time on jeeps and people are often unsatisfied.

TLDR: whatever company you want to use parts from use ALL their parts for the best results, IE: complete OME or all toytec or all ICON, etc.

That kit without the shock, that way I can go back and adjust up if I add any weight, The 5100's themselves run a little cheaper at wheelers and since the saw springs are there the additional shipping charge is a wash. It should cost the same overall. Yes it takes more time to not buy an assembled coilover, but I don't have most of the tools required to install myself anyways so the $400 can go towards install costs. I would love to use a matched kit, unfortunately though you are limited with height options if you do.

The SAW springs are more expensive than the toytec superflex, The $400 savings is basically the labor saved on them assembling the coilover and the premium you pay for a pre-assembled kit

I frankly don't understand the point of having a 1-3 coilover in a kit that limits you to a two inch rear. Who would do 1" front and 2" rear.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

I would love to use a matched kit, unfortunately though you are limited with height options if you do.

Call toytec and talk to them, You may be surprised at how easy they are to deal with and how willing they are to help.

Oh and I haven't checked this week but bilstein 5100s have been on back order for quite some time. Check with wheelers before you order anything and see if they have stock and are available.

 

[Jabberjaw]

All great feedback above. I have to admit that cost is a factor. The $600 difference between the Frankenlift and Toytec = sliders.

That said, coming from years of building Jeeps, I agree with Scott. I always had the best results by going all Synergy/Rock Krawler/Tera/etc.

I could wait on the sliders and just baby it a bit during an upcoming event at Rausch Creek, but I need to sh!t or get off the pot soon.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

full trail armor and the right attitude will get you further than a 3" lift kit and 285s will get you.......:lookout:

 

[Jabberjaw]

full trail armor and the right attitude will get you further than a 3" lift kit and 285s will get you.......:lookout:

Agreed ...but an inch or two of extra clearance and "not so sloppy" springs/shocks help a lot too.

 

[cjacob316]

Remember that I said the SAW(made by eibach) spring are more expensive than the springs in the ultimate kit (toytec superflex) So you could save even more money going with the toytec superflex springs instead of the SAW, as long as you piece the itmes together and don't buy them as the kit

 

[cjacob316]

Call toytec and talk to them, You may be surprised at how easy they are to deal with and how willing they are to help.

Oh and I haven't checked this week but bilstein 5100s have been on back order for quite some time. Check with wheelers before you order anything and see if they have stock and are available.

Yeah I haven't ordered mostly because of the back order, but I did see today that they were listed as back in stock in limited quantity, seems like Bilstein fixed their machine