Loose Steering

[Jeremy556]

So, for the last 15K miles or so, my steering has started to get a bit loose, and now is about to the point it feels like a GM recirc ball setup (awful, if you aren't familiar); 3-4 degrees of play in the steering wheel before the tires change direction.

With the front end in the air, I can't feel any play in the tie rods or steering linkage, and trying to rotate the wheel vertically (to check play in wheel bearings) is tight. Twisting a wheel horizontally, I can deflect it a degree or so.

Right at about 100K miles, lift, 33" mtrs, negative offset wheels, lots of hard use, etc. Looks like a new rack is about a grand, or could go with replacing inner and outer tie rods for $500, but if the whole rack needs replacement, will be out $400 for the inner tie rods, as the rack comes with those.

 

[IAmTodd]

I would start with an alignment and see how things improve.

 

[gm350reratliff]

Your wheel shouldn't move loosely at all. I'd have another person move the wheel just like you did in order to correctly ID what is loose. Another method that works good is to keep the vehicle on the ground, have some one move the streering wheel back and forth about 10-15 degrees while you look underneath.

 

[Jeremy556]

I would start with an alignment and see how things improve.

Your wheel shouldn't move loosely at all. I'd have another person move the wheel just like you did in order to correctly ID what is loose. Another method that works good is to keep the vehicle on the ground, have some one move the streering wheel back and forth about 10-15 degrees while you look underneath.

Done both in the last 48 hours.

Alignment was (surprisingly) at same specs for camber/caster as 40K miles ago, toe was only out 1/32" on one side. No noticeable difference before/after.

Having a helper turn the wheel while I am looking at the underside, nothing is obviously loose, moving in ways it shouldn't be, no pops, weird noises, or anything else.

Both lower ball joints are tight and shocks recently rebuilt, also with no change before/after.

 

[mark3406e]

Went through the same thing on my old 3rd gen. The rack was worn out inside. Inner tie rods helped for a very short time. Then put a new rack on it and all was well.

You can slide the inner boot off and with it on its own weight have someone steer the play out of the wheel and see if the inner tie rod or "ram " has play in it.

 

[Jeremy556]

Went through the same thing on my old 3rd gen. The rack was worn out inside. Inner tie rods helped for a very short time. Then put a new rack on it and all was well.

You can slide the inner boot off and with it on its own weight have someone steer the play out of the wheel and see if the inner tie rod or "ram " has play in it.

This is what I'm thinking/afraid of. Safari LTD is my local shop, maybe if I replace my rack I can donate my old one and get Hugh to build new Prado 150 racks...

 

[jrandom]

I have had the seals in a rack go out on my old 3rd gen, that was pretty obvious especially when it was cold. I don't recall have a issue with play, just harder to turn the wheel, and of course the accompanying whine of steering fluid blowing past the seals. I suppose something internal could fail besides the seals, if so you might think it would trash them to in the process. Good luck with whatever it is, crap steering sucks

 

[gm350reratliff]

One more thing, have you checked the steering shaft and all the universal joints in it? If that checks out, then it probably is the rack itself.

 

[Intruder]

When my steering rack went I don't recall there being a lot of play, just that there were certain spots where it was more difficult to turn the wheel. Hopefully it's something else since they have to lift the engine to replace the rack on the 5th gen. Took them two days to replace mine.

 

[hearno]

I know one of the 4th gen guys just had the same issue. He went with an aftermarket rack and the difference was night and day. It was [MENTION=46025]HokieRunner[/MENTION] as I recall.

 

[Intruder]

I know one of the 4th gen guys just had the same issue. He went with an aftermarket rack and the difference was night and day. It was [MENTION=46025]HokieRunner[/MENTION] as I recall.

I know when I had my rack replaced there were no aftermarket options for the 5th gen. Haven't really looked into it again since, though.

 

[wfo9]

I'm guessing replacing the entire rack is the best option.

On a related note, there are two totaled 150s in the last week here (a t4r trail and an FJ). Both were roll overs and all the parts were very low miles. I'm trying to find out where they are going , so I can inquire for parts and the steering rack + CV axles... is one of the things I wanted to get.

 

[HokieRunner]

I went with a reman'd rack from CVJ axles. Good quality and cheaper than a new OEM. Came ready to install with new inner tie rods and was a pretty simple swap. Of course. ..no idea if they do 5th gen racks yet. Also...part of the steering play I experienced was due to the bushing wear. The rack bushings were shot so the rack would actually deflect a bit before you'd get steering response.

 

[Jeremy556]

Quick update: I think I figured out my issue. Worn out UCA bushings.

I had already purchased new bushings and uniballs, which I planned to install when I rebuilt my coilovers, but everything felt tight, so I skipped that part.

Today, I figured out that it all felt tight at full droop, but when lifting the suspension to ride height (I know better than this, think I missed it before because I was thinking about the shock rebuild), there was a little bit of play fore/aft in the UCA.

I pulled the arms, replaced the bushings and went ahead and replaced the uniballs, as the arms were already out, and so I could try out my new 20 ton press (other than crushing random things :nerd: ). The old uniballs didn't have any play in them, but they definitely were not as tight as the new ones, as to be expected after 40K miles. The old bushings were a bit wallowed out and I could tilt the sleeves inside the bushings with my fingers, where new bushings are nearly a press fit.

During a short test drive, I no longer had a few degrees of play in the steering wheel before the tires turned, no longer had steering wheel shake going over uneven bumps, and the front suspension is much quieter. I still have a clunk when hitting a bump with one side, which I am 87% certain is due to worn out sway bar bushings - I can fit a large flat blade screw driver between the bushings and the bar.

 

[wfo9]

Glad you found the issue. Much cheaper then a new steering rack.

I'm surprised to hear you still run swaybars. KDSS?

I still need to come up with a disconnect system. I've gotten comfortable with how it drives without it, but I know I'm being stupid doing a lot of road miles without it on there.

Acceptable risk I guess.

 

[Jeremy556]

I'm surprised to hear you still run swaybars. KDSS?

Yep. I love being able to fly through the twisties, mtrs howling, and have no body roll. At some point in the not too distant future, I'll probably go long travel and remove the sways, but my new sway bushings should be here on Tuesday...