Antman
Elite Member
Tighter is not always better! You will stretch and eventually break 5th Gen lugs at that much torque. Many have proven that already.
Good Luck!
Lug nut torque...what value do YOU use?
- Thread starter eddiebx
- Start date
Tighter is not always better! You will stretch and eventually break 5th Gen lugs at that much torque. Many have proven that already.
Good Luck!
aha2988
New member
your not the first to tell me that and the more i hear of less torque being okay the more crazy i feel for turning it that hard.
barryhiram
New member
81 LBS here, with a re-torque after 25 miles since they are aluminum wheels :lookout:
And to show you a bit more inconsistency, my owner's manual states that the torque should be 83 ft-lbs vs. 81. I doubt there was a change between the 2010 and 2013 models.
1engineer
Moderator
Simple answer is no. I can give you the long explanation if you want though.
Copp4
New member
80-90 ft. Lbs is acceptable. The inconsistencies between torque wrenches will give you these outcomes. Those who are torquing them over 90ft lb are playing Russian Roulette. I worked in several different tire & wheel shops in my teens and very early 20's. Not only are you chancing the possibility of snapping the lugs off, you are highly increasing the chances the threads in the actual lug nuts will pull out, but you are also chancing the studs will do the same. Then you will almost be guaranteed a lug will freeze up while one is attempting to remove it. Then you will find yourself having to break the stud clean off.
Follow the manufacturers recommendations or stay very close to them at least.
Follow the manufacturers recommendations or stay very close to them at least.
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simple
Senior Member
Is it zero? Or the lowest value. I have 3 torque wrenches and I'm pretty sure both foot lb ones came at 25ft lbs. the instructions are not very clear.
Lowest value
Blitzkrieg
New member
I set them to whatever is in the manual and check them after a day or two.
I like to use my super expensive Snap-On torque wrench so I actually salivate at the thought of inner rim cleaning/tire rotation day. Yes, when I rotate my tires I clean the inside of the rims.
I do set my torque wrench back to zero after use as we know its bad for them to stay loaded.
I was rotating the tires on my Corvette way back when I was young and stupid. A friend called and said some girls are coming over to party, head over. I got all distracted and actually had the wheel break free 8 miles from my house on one of the busiest avenues in Denver during rush hour.
So there I was picking up 5 lug nuts in the middle of rush hour traffic. Not good. To it's credit, the tire went up in the fender well and the rotor rode it out on the rim long enough for me to get the car stopped.
Not my best moment for sure. LOL So now, I look like some anal retentive weirdo when I check my lug nuts because I never, ever want to have that happen again.
And oh yeah, my first car was a 1971 Chevy Vega station wagon.
George Costanza out.
I like to use my super expensive Snap-On torque wrench so I actually salivate at the thought of inner rim cleaning/tire rotation day. Yes, when I rotate my tires I clean the inside of the rims.
I do set my torque wrench back to zero after use as we know its bad for them to stay loaded.
I was rotating the tires on my Corvette way back when I was young and stupid. A friend called and said some girls are coming over to party, head over. I got all distracted and actually had the wheel break free 8 miles from my house on one of the busiest avenues in Denver during rush hour.
So there I was picking up 5 lug nuts in the middle of rush hour traffic. Not good. To it's credit, the tire went up in the fender well and the rotor rode it out on the rim long enough for me to get the car stopped.
Not my best moment for sure. LOL So now, I look like some anal retentive weirdo when I check my lug nuts because I never, ever want to have that happen again.
And oh yeah, my first car was a 1971 Chevy Vega station wagon.
George Costanza out.
1engineer
Moderator
Here is a re-post of one of my old posts on the subject of lug nut torque:
Torque, when dealing with bolts and nuts, is a very simple formula that can get complicated real fast.
T = K × D × F
where T = torque, K = nut factor, sometimes called the friction factor, D = bolt diameter, and F = bolt tension generated during tightening. This formula is often called the short-form equation and you don't really want to see the long form expression.
Let me explain a few parts of this equation and the parts you folks are discussing:
T= Torque, which is sort of a way of measuring "clamp force" when dealing with your wheel studs. Other ways are used but I will leave those alone.
K= Nut or Friction factor....or in my world the CYA or fudge factor. Very important multiplier that can change for different applications and usually only determined by actual testing. In the situation you described it gets complicated. Here are some of the variables that could change the "K" factor in the equation: Is the bolt plated? Is the plating zinc? Is the bolt lubricated? If so, what type? What is the bolt's temperature? Has the bolt been pre loaded before? If so how many times and was the preload correct? And on...
D= Bolt Diameter
F= Bolt tension. The bolt tension is caused tightening. The bolt is stretched a bit during tightening. In some cases the thread can be deformed which you guys know as "stripping".
Bottom line: Can lug nut torque be changed by lubrication? You bet. How much? I have not a clue, sorry. Wiskey Wizard states a percentage and while that may be true in some applications I don't know if it applies here because:
A) Even though you have multiple lug nuts they act as one unit. The K factor will change depending on if all bolts are lubricated or only one, or two, etc.
B) Type of lubricant makes a huge difference. Don't say "It was oil" 'cause that won't help haha.
C) What was the temperature? Makes a big difference too.
D) How many times have they been torqued and were they torqued properly before?
All in all, it is a good idea to clean your bolt before torquing unless it was designed to be lubricated, which wheel studs are not. So yes, lubricating a wheel stud before torquing the lug nut could cause the stud to break because your torque values will be higher. Just don't know by how much. Hope this helps and tried to keep it simple.
Oh, Antman, your rust analogy was very good! BBB, there are some lubricants out there that will absolutely change the "real torque" vs. "measured" torque.
Torque, when dealing with bolts and nuts, is a very simple formula that can get complicated real fast.
T = K × D × F
where T = torque, K = nut factor, sometimes called the friction factor, D = bolt diameter, and F = bolt tension generated during tightening. This formula is often called the short-form equation and you don't really want to see the long form expression.
Let me explain a few parts of this equation and the parts you folks are discussing:
T= Torque, which is sort of a way of measuring "clamp force" when dealing with your wheel studs. Other ways are used but I will leave those alone.
K= Nut or Friction factor....or in my world the CYA or fudge factor. Very important multiplier that can change for different applications and usually only determined by actual testing. In the situation you described it gets complicated. Here are some of the variables that could change the "K" factor in the equation: Is the bolt plated? Is the plating zinc? Is the bolt lubricated? If so, what type? What is the bolt's temperature? Has the bolt been pre loaded before? If so how many times and was the preload correct? And on...
D= Bolt Diameter
F= Bolt tension. The bolt tension is caused tightening. The bolt is stretched a bit during tightening. In some cases the thread can be deformed which you guys know as "stripping".
Bottom line: Can lug nut torque be changed by lubrication? You bet. How much? I have not a clue, sorry. Wiskey Wizard states a percentage and while that may be true in some applications I don't know if it applies here because:
A) Even though you have multiple lug nuts they act as one unit. The K factor will change depending on if all bolts are lubricated or only one, or two, etc.
B) Type of lubricant makes a huge difference. Don't say "It was oil" 'cause that won't help haha.
C) What was the temperature? Makes a big difference too.
D) How many times have they been torqued and were they torqued properly before?
All in all, it is a good idea to clean your bolt before torquing unless it was designed to be lubricated, which wheel studs are not. So yes, lubricating a wheel stud before torquing the lug nut could cause the stud to break because your torque values will be higher. Just don't know by how much. Hope this helps and tried to keep it simple.
Oh, Antman, your rust analogy was very good! BBB, there are some lubricants out there that will absolutely change the "real torque" vs. "measured" torque.
I never seen torque values 76 ft LBS on a truck vehicle as the Toyota spec is for the alloy wheels.
typical GM alloy wheels would be 120/140 ft lbs.
with these T4R vehicles best re-torque after driving 50-100 miles.
also tire shops will F up these wheel fasteners ..they will over torque the fasteners .
I would make sure you have a torque wrench when doing this .
Good example, I built a spreadsheet using a similar formula, using a coefficient for thread lubricant or anti sieze, in this case with lug nuts, no lubricant, talk about over stressing a stud.
Will look up the formula I used and post here next week.
Greg I bet you are a HP RPN guy...correct?
77
1engineer
Moderator
Ha. Once upon a time. I'm just a mech eng that has designed a lot of off highway stuff over the years. A lot of one off designs that required a bunch of testing. We were in the field as much as the office. In your old world I spent some time on the off shore platforms with cranes, Jack up boats and ROV's. On land it was with vacuum trucks, wireline trucks and drills.
Just because you haven't heard of it does not make it true. I have went through the force analysis and even the low Toyota values give you a hefty safety factor.
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what I said was I never saw a wheel fastener torque that low on a truck . I never said I doubted TOYOTA SPEC on the torque.
again with torque that low it is best to use a torque wrench and inform the wheel shop what this spec is .
Blitzkrieg
New member
I have had very good luck with Discount Tire who I have dealt with like forever.
Yesterday when I had my TRD wheels mounted, I stressed DO NOT over-torque them and watched them torque them. They did it to the letter.
I believe lesser shops over-torque due to either:
1) Laziness
2) Lack of knowledge (see #1)
3) Baseless fear of lawsuits for a wheel "falling off"
Yesterday when I had my TRD wheels mounted, I stressed DO NOT over-torque them and watched them torque them. They did it to the letter.
I believe lesser shops over-torque due to either:
1) Laziness
2) Lack of knowledge (see #1)
3) Baseless fear of lawsuits for a wheel "falling off"
Jetboy
New member
It only takes one falling off...
It happens more than you'd think. If you're wife can't break 85ft lbs there's not a chance in hell she can get the spare out and swapped with the flat tire.
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