rebelbowtie
New member
I have a boat, atv, dirt bike, lawn mower, generator etc all with carburetors and never once had an issue.
Misfire
- Thread starter joneseyyy
- Start date
I have a boat, atv, dirt bike, lawn mower, generator etc all with carburetors and never once had an issue.
westwind77
New member
:lmao::lmao::lmao: Sure my friend, sure. Let me guess, you won the mega-millions, 6 times too!
joneseyyy
New member
I go to Jim Coleman in Bethesda. Generally pretty happy with them but this is the first real 'problem solving' I need them to do. Blaming bad gas is reasonable once but there has to be something else going on..maybe a sticky injector? But then again I figure that'd throw a cylinder-specific code. What the hell do I know? What dealer do you use?
Antman
Elite Member
You will. I promise! I use Stabil Marine Formula in all my gas containers, and my boat(along with a water filter).
Ethanol is crap.
rebelbowtie
New member
So according to this forum I should run 93 octane when my engine isn't timed for it and waste my money on pure ethanol free fuel. But of I drank the kool aid I'd be getting 1-mpg better with 93 octane plus a 3-5% increase without ethanol so I should be getting 27-30mpg in my truck?!!
Thank you all for showing me my errors
Thank you all for showing me my errors
Titanpat57
Senior Member
and on the tail of this I'll add that my maintenance costs of my small machinery have DOUBLED in the last 3 years due to damage caused by ethanol...even though I have the have all the gas containers filled with high test, and keep them labeled in a separate storage cabinets, some intellect manages to dump a snow blower full of regular gas, and it's in for a ring job not soon after, or at least a carb rebuild.
Ethanol is about as useful as one of those CARB compliant spouts...:repuke:
joneseyyy
New member
So I call the dealer this AM, and the service lead I've worked with the past year is no-longer...ugh. So instead of being able to see me same-day, the new dealer answer is, "can you come next Tuesday"?
I think I am going to clear the code for now, run the Toyota-branded EFI additive they sell at the dealer, and run Shell V-power or Chevron for the next 2 weeks and see if this goes away.
I also think I am going to order a scangaugeII (thanks for the inspiration PhillyD2) just so I can have greater immediate visibility/ability to monitor the truck.
I think I am going to clear the code for now, run the Toyota-branded EFI additive they sell at the dealer, and run Shell V-power or Chevron for the next 2 weeks and see if this goes away.
I also think I am going to order a scangaugeII (thanks for the inspiration PhillyD2) just so I can have greater immediate visibility/ability to monitor the truck.
Antman
Elite Member
I look forward to your post when your mower won't start due to water absorbed into your wonderful ethanol mixed miracle fuel.
You will post THAT, won't you?
rebelbowtie
New member
I look forward to your post when your mower won't start due to water absorbed into your wonderful ethanol mixed miracle fuel.
You will post THAT, won't you?
yes i promise i will, i have never stated that ethanol based fuel was a miracle, it just doesnt suck as bad as the general public claims. i dont know anyone in the corn industry either so i am not a recipient of that, in fact as much of a supporter of ethanol based fuels i am i dont think corn based ethanol makes sense.
phillyd2
Senior Member
Honestly, if it was me and if it was possible I would leave all as is until they see it.
westwind77
New member
I look forward to your post when your mower won't start due to water absorbed into your wonderful ethanol mixed miracle fuel.
You will post THAT, won't you?
Ha, or when the ethanol eats up and destroys any rubber diaphragm that may exist, especially in older engines. How about when the ethanol causes plastic to swell and cost people $500 for a repair instead of $25. The sudden and massive changes I have seen from pre to post ethanol give me solid evidence to say....ethanol sucks! Parts that would never have an issue for years were failing every year when ethanol was released. Oh, must be a weird co-ink-dink! Nothing we can do about it in MA, just accept it and move on...and mumble under our breath...ethanol sucks.
joneseyyy
New member
Koons Toyota Tysons Corner.
rebelbowtie
New member
youre just one of those "people" who dont accept change, if you were around when they phased out leaded fuel for unleaded you would have said the same thing.
OrangeTexan
New member
Slightly off topic-
Rebel is correct.
If an engine was built from the start with ethanol only in mind, you would find that it would have a higher compression ratio, and much more aggressive timing parameters. This would allow you to use the ethanol to its full potential - you would create more horsepower and torque over the entire RPM range and run with just as good or better fuel economy as gas. However you would not be able to run gasoline in this engine, unless it was forced induction (where the cylinder pressure can be significantly controlled). Running ethanol only is not practical for most people because of lack of infrastructure, so car manufactures make flex fuel vehicles, which come with a host of compromises, include sorry ethanol mileage. The vehicles' ECU is programmed to identify the fuel as ethanol and make adjustments as necessary, but you can only adjust things so much (like variable valve timing, etc) to improve the dynamic compression ratio for ethanol use. Thus the compromise of bad ethanol mileage, while retaining the ability to adjust back to more optimal fuel and timing maps for gasoline. Why do they make flex fuel vehicles then? Its all about PR.
Back on topic -
From the example given above where the ECU was reflashed, it seems there may some issue with the engine running lean, possibly from gas in the region with too much ethanol, or maybe a known issue from Toyota where some engines are just a bit more detonation prone. Hard to say at moment what it really is, but it seems that Toyota has identified a fix in the form of a ECU reflash that causes the engine to run a bit more rich, which would be a "safer" tune, but will cause the fuel economy to drop.
Rebel is correct.
If an engine was built from the start with ethanol only in mind, you would find that it would have a higher compression ratio, and much more aggressive timing parameters. This would allow you to use the ethanol to its full potential - you would create more horsepower and torque over the entire RPM range and run with just as good or better fuel economy as gas. However you would not be able to run gasoline in this engine, unless it was forced induction (where the cylinder pressure can be significantly controlled). Running ethanol only is not practical for most people because of lack of infrastructure, so car manufactures make flex fuel vehicles, which come with a host of compromises, include sorry ethanol mileage. The vehicles' ECU is programmed to identify the fuel as ethanol and make adjustments as necessary, but you can only adjust things so much (like variable valve timing, etc) to improve the dynamic compression ratio for ethanol use. Thus the compromise of bad ethanol mileage, while retaining the ability to adjust back to more optimal fuel and timing maps for gasoline. Why do they make flex fuel vehicles then? Its all about PR.
Back on topic -
From the example given above where the ECU was reflashed, it seems there may some issue with the engine running lean, possibly from gas in the region with too much ethanol, or maybe a known issue from Toyota where some engines are just a bit more detonation prone. Hard to say at moment what it really is, but it seems that Toyota has identified a fix in the form of a ECU reflash that causes the engine to run a bit more rich, which would be a "safer" tune, but will cause the fuel economy to drop.
1engineer
Moderator
Your argument is not completely correct. You are correct about the power but you are incorrect about the efficiency.
A gallon of ethanol contains less energy than a gallon of pure gasoline. The amount of energy difference varies depending on the blend. For example, a gallon of pure ethanol (E100) contains 34% less energy than a gallon of gasoline. (eia.gov) So, gallon to gallon, ethanol just does not have the energy potential. Also it will be really hard to start on cold winter mornings. For more on this search "enthalpy of vaporization" and learn about vapor pressure.
OrangeTexan
New member
Hmm, yes you are right about the energy content. On paper gasoline looks to be better. On a personal, practical level, I have seen it different. I have seen some pretty good mpg numbers from cars built and tuned exclusively for ethanol. Most of the benefit comes from the higher octane of ethanol and alcohol cooling effect it has on the air charge. You can compress ethanol much more before it detonates, which means your combustion is much more controlled and predictable, which allows you to run much more lean than gasoline. The ability to use higher compression also allows for a more complete burn vs gasoline, so less unburned, wasted fuel is leaving the cylinder, which will also contribute to mpg . This is all to say - at cruising conditions, a purpose built ethanol car will get better mpg in my experience.
1engineer - I have read many of your posts and have come to respect your knowledge, but from one engineer to another, I'll have to ask that you consider my practical experience in this matter. I can understand if you still disagree - I wouldnt believe it unless I saw it either.
I agree with you about the hard starting in the cold. This would be an issue in colder regions.
Regardless, I'd have to agree with some of the other comments made. Ethanol can be some really nasty stuff and has been known to tear up fuel systems. Currently, I think it is a waste of tax payer money. I hate the "10%" stuff at the pumps.
1engineer - I have read many of your posts and have come to respect your knowledge, but from one engineer to another, I'll have to ask that you consider my practical experience in this matter.
I can understand if you still disagree - I wouldnt believe it unless I saw it either.I agree with you about the hard starting in the cold. This would be an issue in colder regions.
Regardless, I'd have to agree with some of the other comments made. Ethanol can be some really nasty stuff and has been known to tear up fuel systems. Currently, I think it is a waste of tax payer money. I hate the "10%" stuff at the pumps.
