New Twist on Lower Ball Joint failure

[peat]

Hi all!

I am new arround here. I found out this forum because I was looking for the measurements of the Toyota 4runner lower ball joint. Are this measurements close to the original ones? It will be very helpful if someone can help me, apart of those measurements I will need the diametre of the lower part (conical), the total height of the ball joint, the distance between the 4 bolts centres holes (rectangula pattern) and the diametre of those holes.

Thank you very much!!

P.S: sorry about my poor english,I need to improve it.

 

[Nelsonmd]

Hi all!

I am new arround here. I found out this forum because I was looking for the measurements of the Toyota 4runner lower ball joint. Are this measurements close to the original ones? It will be very helpful if someone can help me, apart of those measurements I will need the diametre of the lower part (conical), the total height of the ball joint, the distance between the 4 bolts centres holes (rectangula pattern) and the diametre of those holes.

Thank you very much!!

P.S: sorry about my poor english,I need to improve it.

Why do you want these measurements?

BTW, I don't think that picture you quoted is the toyota 4runner LBJ; it's just a random photo off the internet.

 

[peat]

Why do you want these measurements?

BTW, I don't think that picture you quoted is the toyota 4runner LBJ; it's just a random photo off the internet.

Ouuuch!!! big fail for me!! :wtf: I thought that it was 4runner LBJ. I need all the LBJ measurements because I am working in a dune buggy and we are thinking about to use them, so we need the measurements to check if it will fit. Unfortunatly I am not able to check them by myself, that´s the reason because I am asking for. So, if anybody can provide me them...

 

[freshley]

ball joint part numbers

Ok, it sounds like I'm on borrowed time. Anyone know the part numbers for the lower left and right ball joints and the uppers for a 4wd sr5 4runner?

I think I need to order some ASAP!

 

[tbst]

Ok, it sounds like I'm on borrowed time. Anyone know the part numbers for the lower left and right ball joints and the uppers for a 4wd sr5 4runner?

I think I need to order some ASAP!

Just go to toyotapartsales.com and put in your info. They are the cheapest around anyway.

 

[sportscarfan]

Random post...I saw a Tundra yesterday on the side of the highway with what clearly appeared to be LBJ failure. Drivers front wheel was folded under the truck. Amazing that they were able to pull it off to the side

 

[Nelsonmd]

Ouuuch!!! big fail for me!! :wtf: I thought that it was 4runner LBJ. I need all the LBJ measurements because I am working in a dune buggy and we are thinking about to use them, so we need the measurements to check if it will fit. Unfortunatly I am not able to check them by myself, that´s the reason because I am asking for. So, if anybody can provide me them...

For a dune buggy, I think the 4runner LBJ might be a bit heavy. What kind of buggy is this, a vehicle conversion, or a fully custom job? How big?

You should hit up a junk yard and just look around at some different cars' LBJ's. I bet you could find a much smaller/lighter one that would work, and it will probably be cheaper. I know the LBJ from my 04 Pontiac Grand Am was a very similar design, just smaller and didn't have the TRE mount on it.

Also, what are you using for a knuckle? For a dune buggy, I'd think you want one with an easier to replace bearing than the 4runner.

 

[CanukRunner]

I changed my lower ball joints because of this thread.

I do have some regrets,

1. should have used the larger taco ball joints and TRE's.

2. I know when i picked up the 8 bolts from the dealer for the LBJ's they were very light... learned later that Toyota bolts are made of cheese. Next time i'll source higher grade bolts.

You guys can argue the bolt thing if you wish but your not gonna go wrong with a stronger grade bolt.

 

[kman55]

Glad your okay and the damage is minimal! Dang I'm sorry to hear about that, that's scary as can be!

 

[Nelsonmd]

2. I know when i picked up the 8 bolts from the dealer for the LBJ's they were very light... learned later that Toyota bolts are made of cheese. Next time i'll source higher grade bolts.

You guys can argue the bolt thing if you wish but your not gonna go wrong with a stronger grade bolt.

Hmmm, just came back to this thread, and I have to disagree with you on this statement. There is really no such thing as a "higher grade bolt" as we would think of it. The grades of bolt mean very specific things, like heat treatment, hardness, and ultimate tensile strength. You don't necessarily want a harder bolt even though it's UTS is likely higher, it may fail long before a softer, lower UTS bolt would.

Sometime strain is necessary. Hardened metal can't take strain, soft metal can. Sometimes you intentionally mismatch the hardness of mating components to prevent damage.

I don't claim to know that higher grade bolts in this application is worse, but I think it is more likely that Toyota has looked into this than I can guess which is better, so I go with Toyota bolts.

That's just my opinion though, Toyota bolts may not be as good as I think they are, I havn't tested them.

 

[milowilli]

Hmmm, just came back to this thread, and I have to disagree with you on this statement. There is really no such thing as a "higher grade bolt" as we would think of it. The grades of bolt mean very specific things, like heat treatment, hardness, and ultimate tensile strength. You don't necessarily want a harder bolt even though it's UTS is likely higher, it may fail long before a softer, lower UTS bolt would.

Sometime strain is necessary. Hardened metal can't take strain, soft metal can. Sometimes you intentionally mismatch the hardness of mating components to prevent damage.

I don't claim to know that higher grade bolts in this application is worse, but I think it is more likely that Toyota has looked into this than I can guess which is better, so I go with Toyota bolts.

That's just my opinion though, Toyota bolts may not be as good as I think they are, I havn't tested them.

Coming back to this thread I am convinced this is a serious design flaw on these trucks. First Gen Tacomas, Tundras, Sequoias and 3rd gen 4Runners. There is nothing that can be done to make these trucks safe. I tried on a 02 Tundra to make it kinda bullet proof but it failed a few weeks ago and nearly hurt the driver. Toyota fixed the problem on the newer trucks.
If you drive one off road it's only a matter of time before something fails catastrophicaly.

 

[nobb]

So I just bought replacement lower ball joints. My ball joints are stamped "NRA." I thought the old Toyota ones were stamped "555" from Sankei? Did Toyota change manufacturers?

 

[BobWa]

Does anyone know the proper procedure for checking the LBJs on the vehicle? :help:

I simpy don't undestand how it should be done! With the vehicle in the air and the suspension unloaded, there is still pulling apart tension from the coil. To add to that tension, there is a spring inside the LBJ that pushed the ball out of the socket.

Using a pry bar to check for play simply adds to those 2 forces that are already pulling apart. Logically, one should COMPRESS the ball joint to see if there is play in it. Right?

 

[dunktap]

Another 1 bites......

 

[Unner]

That sucks, didn't you just redo your front end?

 

[aawolf]

Yesterday between 2 and 2:30 in the afternoon Shadow went from being on 4 wheels to this:

All 4 bolts that hold the lower ball joint to the knuckle sheared cleanly off. We assume it was a hit and run where the other car hit/bounced off the rubber of the tire and left very little other damage. That's our best guess.

$2,500 of work. Replacing the CV axle, LBJs (both sides), Knuckle, and front shocks (left one was badly dented).

My mechanic said he had seen another 3rd gen 4Runner that was hit by an Uber in traffic on the wheel with the exact same failure.

This is a huge achilles heel. Pretty scary stuff.

I love this vehicle. We drove this 4runner 22,000 miles through South America. But it's pretty troubling that there's not really any way to guard against this type of failure. All 4 bolts looked shiny and strong. I followed the torque guidelines when putting those LBJs on. :shrug:

 

[YOTAGUY93]

after seeing this im most def. changing mine out asap :faint2:

 

[maxvert]

Would anyone know these bolts size and grade .
I'd consider upgrading to a stronger bolt. . Broken bolts are unacceptable .

Max

 

[Wedgy]

Yesterday between 2 and 2:30 in the afternoon Shadow went from being on 4 wheels to this:

All 4 bolts that hold the lower ball joint to the knuckle sheared cleanly off. We assume it was a hit and run where the other car hit/bounced off the rubber of the tire and left very little other damage. That's our best guess.

$2,500 of work. Replacing the CV axle, LBJs (both sides), Knuckle, and front shocks (left one was badly dented).

My mechanic said he had seen another 3rd gen 4Runner that was hit by an Uber in traffic on the wheel with the exact same failure.

This is a huge achilles heel. Pretty scary stuff.

I love this vehicle. We drove this 4runner 22,000 miles through South America. But it's pretty troubling that there's not really any way to guard against this type of failure. All 4 bolts looked shiny and strong. I followed the torque guidelines when putting those LBJs on. :shrug:

Wow, sorry to see that. Hopefully your auto insurance will cover the damage. Generally the LBJ won't take a shearing hit like that but it's still kind of scary. I would rather see a bunch of bent stuff as opposed to a failure. If you are super worried about it you could weld a bead along the edges and grind it off when you need to change them out, easy enough to handle.

 

[JZiggy]

Wow, sorry to see that. Hopefully your auto insurance will cover the damage. Generally the LBJ won't take a shearing hit like that but it's still kind of scary. I would rather see a bunch of bent stuff as opposed to a failure. If you are super worried about it you could weld a bead along the edges and grind it off when you need to change them out, easy enough to handle.

This is making me wonder if the OEM bolts could be upgraded to a higher strength / class fastener. I need to verify but I think the factory bolts are metric class 8 which is equivalent to a grade 5 SAE. A stronger bolt like metric 10 or 12 would allow us to install the LBJ with higher torque values.