New Twist on Lower Ball Joint failure

[ChildrenOfBodom]

Wow man, that's nuts. Remember when we stopped off the 138 and you mentioned your steering was squirrely?

Looks like I wasn't talking out of my butt after all, it was the LBJ.

Good thing you're alright. The truck can be fixed.

 

[runnyrunnerton]

I just replaced mine and noticed my steering was much improved. Before it was real sloppy and it tightened up dramatically with the new LBJ's (toyota oems) I was going to get a steering bushing set but now im in no rush, the truck tracks right down the road. Am I alone or has anyone else noticed improved steering after LBJ change? If so, the loose steering may be the first indicator to future would be LBJ failures.

 

[CanukRunner]

Is it just me or does any one notce that all this pics have heavy front bumpers...

wonder if the runner cant handle a bumper up front.

 

[JohnsD90]

Well this is fun, my truck is about 550 miles away from getting home, looks like i know what im changing when i get home...

 

[Pikeman]

Is it just me or does any one notce that all this pics have heavy front bumpers...

wonder if the runner cant handle a bumper up front.

Plenty of the failures happen to stock rigs too. I have been out wheeling every weekend the past month and usually go at least once a month but normally twice. I would contribute it more to the frequent off-road usage before I do the bumper. Like I mentioned earlier unlike some others I do believe that the extra weight does contribute, but think it comes more from the trails.


COB- yeah I am guessing that is when 2 of the 4 bolts sheared but were still in there. Was driving and tracking fine after the night on the 138 until the night it happened when the other two let loose. Since two of the breaks were aged and two looked new. Found two of the bolts at the site it failed and the head of the one in my driveway.

Now for the bolts. I priced them at 3 local dealers and were between 2.75 and 3.50 each. I went to Toyotapartsales.com and they have them for .84cents each and same with Champion Toyota.

make sure everything is seated properly and torqued to factory spec with Medium thread loctite as per FSM There is a good chance last time I did my CV joints I either over torqued(couldn't find my torque wrench) or didnt have things fully seated and why they broke. Would love to think I am not at fault but not to big to accept it as a possibility.

 

[J-money$$$]

Is it just me or does any one notce that all this pics have heavy front bumpers...

wonder if the runner cant handle a bumper up front.

its more likely that the 4runners breaking ball joints seem to be lifted. those bumpers are all about 50lbs over the stock one. Thats not enough to cause any issues

 

[Nelsonmd]

Now for the bolts. I priced them at 3 local dealers and were between 2.75 and 3.50 each. I went to Toyotapartsales.com and they have them for .84cents each and same with Champion Toyota.

make sure everything is seated properly and torqued to factory spec with Medium thread loctite as per FSM There is a good chance last time I did my CV joints I either over torqued(couldn't find my torque wrench) or didnt have things fully seated and why they broke. Would love to think I am not at fault but not to big to accept it as a possibility.

Pikeman, I found 2 part numbers for those bolts, I think the additional part no is for later models, but I don't have the details on that. Do you have any idea what the difference is? Is there a difference between the LBJ's or steering knuckles for some years?

I definitely plan on ordering some new bolts after seeing this. The $7 is worth it.

 

[Pikeman]

Nelson- when I was looking at couple sites they showed an old number and a new number as replacement. I will try to get the part number for you when I get home. I just looked at my online receipt and it just says Bolt, Flange and no part number.

 

[Singtoe]

Plenty of the failures happen to stock rigs too. I have been out wheeling every weekend the past month and usually go at least once a month but normally twice. I would contribute it more to the frequent off-road usage before I do the bumper. Like I mentioned earlier unlike some others I do believe that the extra weight does contribute, but think it comes more from the trails.


COB- yeah I am guessing that is when 2 of the 4 bolts sheared but were still in there. Was driving and tracking fine after the night on the 138 until the night it happened when the other two let loose. Since two of the breaks were aged and two looked new. Found two of the bolts at the site it failed and the head of the one in my driveway.

Now for the bolts. I priced them at 3 local dealers and were between 2.75 and 3.50 each. I went to Toyotapartsales.com and they have them for .84cents each and same with Champion Toyota.

make sure everything is seated properly and torqued to factory spec with Medium thread loctite as per FSM There is a good chance last time I did my CV joints I either over torqued(couldn't find my torque wrench) or didnt have things fully seated and why they broke. Would love to think I am not at fault but not to big to accept it as a possibility.

I found that the oem bolts are really soft. They will break if you tighten too tight and if the are rusted on and they will break trying to remove them. Go ahead and upgrade to 12.9 Allen bolts. They are size m10x1.50 32mm long. They are super strong and won't break when you go to remove them. They are about $.75 each.

 

[Nelsonmd]

Nelson- when I was looking at couple sites they showed an old number and a new number as replacement. I will try to get the part number for you when I get home. I just looked at my online receipt and it just says Bolt, Flange and no part number.

I think I know what you are talking about, the first of the 2 PN's got superseded, but the other number didn't. Here they are.

90105-10406 superseded by 9008010066
90105-10505

 

[Nelsonmd]

I found that the oem bolts are really soft. They will break if you tighten too tight and if the are rusted on and they will break trying to remove them. Go ahead and upgrade to 12.9 Allen bolts. They are size m10x1.50 32mm long. They are super strong and won't break when you go to remove them. They are about $.75 each.

I wouldn't want an allen bolt. They don't seem to fair well against rust and strip easily (if you can even get the key in there, they are hard to clean from rust).

I wouldn't venture away from OEM for this kind of thing. The engineers at Toyota probably looked at alot of properties when choosing these bolts (they are a standard part, so the material should be very well understood). Remember, they are liable if an OEM part fails. You don't always want harder or heat treated parts; sometimes strain is necessary.

 

[Singtoe]

I wouldn't venture away from OEM for this kind of thing. The engineers at Toyota probably looked at alot of properties when choosing these bolts (they are a standard part, so the material should be very well understood). Remember, they are liable if an OEM part fails. You don't always want harder or heat treated parts; sometimes strain is necessary.

Toyota engineers make mistakes. There was a recall on some of the ball joints from Toyota

Most critical bolts are allen type bolts anyway. Most cars use allen bolts to hold brake calipers on (not toyota though). Rust should not be an issue on high quality steel but a few blast of paint couldn't do any harm.

 

[Pikeman]

Ok so collision center called and asked me for prices on the UCA's and coil overs. Then proceeded to tell me that with those the estimate is now $4084.00. Then proceeded to tell they think they are damaged, and think this is bent etc. etc. I went down right after lunch today and had them walk me through what and why. They again said "think" but wont know until we take measurements. They have had my truck since monday afternoon and building a quote off of speculation and clearly padding it. While I was there told them unless they could prove those were damaged that they needed to take them off the estimate. While I was there they could not justify why they felt or point to indicators why they might need to be replaced.

First thing Monday I am calling my insurance and requesting to have it sent to another shop. I don't need some shop padding their pockets at the expense of my insurance company.

 

[cj80cruiser]

Pikeman did you tighten those bolts down to spec or just get them tight. If you already answered that question I apologize. I'd feel a little better about it if you said you just tightened them down to what you thought was right since that would explain the failure better than me just thinking these could shear off at any moment.

 

[Pikeman]

Pikeman did you tighten those bolts down to spec or just get them tight. If you already answered that question I apologize. I'd feel a little better about it if you said you just tightened them down to what you thought was right since that would explain the failure better than me just thinking these could shear off at any moment.

make sure everything is seated properly and torqued to factory spec with Medium thread loctite as per FSM There is a good chance last time I did my CV joints I either over torqued(couldn't find my torque wrench) or didnt have things fully seated and why they broke. Would love to think I am not at fault but not to big to accept it as a possibility.

CJ80- mentioned in the above quote- last time I did my CV I couldnt find my Torques wrench and got them tight.

The lower ball joints are like the Pink Milkshake. When it happens it is a serious and costly repair, but IMHO we don't all need to run around like Chicken Little screaming the Sky is falling. This is a close community dedicted to these vehicles with a couple thousand members in each Generation with maybe a dozen or two instances of either problem. So we are looking at a fraction of 1% of owners on this board needing to worry about it. If you consider the worldwide sales numbers the farction of a percent is even smaller.

 

[smallfry]

Ouch, I feel your pain. Looks like you substained a little more damage than I did with the fender. :jaw drop:

The price does seem a little high.

 

[jsmithjr732]

Pikeman--tell the next shop that you are paying out of pocket. The estimate will be lower. Also ask which software they use for estimating. Audatex tends to be a higher estimate but more accurate.

Also, keep in mind that any shop referenced by your insurance company has
pre-negotiated rates and will reinspect your car if they think they're getting shafted.

Sucks to see your ride like that, but I know I'll see you on the trails again.

 

[BrianSD_42]

CJ80- mentioned in the above quote- last time I did my CV I couldnt find my Torques wrench and got them tight.

Pikeman, just for clarification: you previously redid you LBJs with factory OEM and then some X miles later the bolts sheered off?

How many miles did they last? It looks like you didn't torque them from your own comment above; not sure if I have whole picture.


I am surprised the insurance is paying for this. I guess because you were driving at the time. I am dealing with $$$ fix costs at the moment as well so I feel your pain. I almost had this failure happen to me as well but I caught it when going in for alignment.
.

 

[Singtoe]

No big deal but just so the correct info is out there...the ball joint recall was due to a manufacturing defect and not an engineering defect.

No, they engineered it wrong. Ball joints carrier the weight of the vehicle. They should carry the weight like a stick in a cup. As the stick and cup wears, there stick continues to stay in the cup. This is the case in almost all cars and trucks that use ball joints.

The Toyota design is upside down. So instead of carrying the weight like in the palm of your hand, it is carrying the weight upside down in the fingers and it is only time before it fails.

Yes, the recall was done because of manufacturer defect but as more and more 4runners ,tacoma's, and Tundras crash and burn, Toyota might do some thing about it.

 

[Big John]

I wouldn't want an allen bolt. They don't seem to fair well against rust and strip easily (if you can even get the key in there, they are hard to clean from rust).
You don't always want harder or heat treated parts; sometimes strain is necessary.

I have to agree with this. Throwing a harder, more brittle bolt at things is not the answer IMO. Use OEM bolts, torqued to spec. and it will be fine.