New Yorkers... Give up your guns.

[ndcent]

as a part time supporter, what weapons/magazines/accessories would you approve of?

Fact is I'm perfectly agreeable to 30 round magazines, but when you add a bump stock and a 100 round drum, it gets to be pretty ridiculous. I'm also a proud gun owner within the last three years (own several now) and I've taken good amateur interest in shooting as a hobby.

Anyways, it's not my answer to your question you're interested in, is it? You simply want to box me into some illogical narrative about "give an inch" blah blah bumper sticker slogan that we've seen in the last couple pages.

I'm not anti-2a or anti-gun because I don't find it unreasonable that in 2013, some 230 years since it's ratification, that encouraging a meaningful and rational dialog on the proper role of guns in our society can lead to positive change.

I'd rather not hide behind a Constitutional amendment; I'd rather let my arguments succeed or fail at the ballot box. I'd rather see people take an honest look at the data, face the societal toll that comes with individual choices like gun ownership, and own up to it.

I'm pro-responsibility.

 

[ndcent]

to what end tho? that's being a halfass supporter.

magazine capacity is arbitrary, and has NO bearing on anything.

Who shouldn't be allowed to own guns?

 

[ndcent]

And just in case any of you are unaware of what we have already lost:

The National Firearms Act

National Firearms Act of 1934 legal definition of National Firearms Act of 1934. National Firearms Act of 1934 synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The Gun Control Act of 1968

Gun Control Act of 1968 - encyclopedia article about Gun Control Act of 1968.

The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986

Firearm Owners Protection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there was the 1989 Import Ban, The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, and numerous attempts since to further restrict what was meant to be an inalienable right.

I'm not sure I can debate with someone who thinks we'd be a better society without the assault weapons ban.

The fringe extremity in these debates is always so disappointing.

 

[nevada]

I'm not sure I can debate with someone who thinks we'd be a better society without the assault weapons ban.

you think its actually done good?
we would be better, if not just for the simple fact, we would still be free to choose.

 

[JBecker]

I'm not sure I can debate with someone who thinks we'd be a better society without the assault weapons ban.

The fringe extremity in these debates is always so disappointing.

We don't have an assault weapons ban anymore. George W. Bush let that law sunset. They are trying to reenact that failed policy again, only much worse this time.

And if you think the 2nd amendment is a "fringe extremity", then perhaps any of the other rights guaranteed you are not important. I mean how can the 1st, 4th, or 5th be important? Perhaps kneeling before your leaders is more your style.

 

[LINY4Runner]

I'm not sure I can debate with someone who thinks we'd be a better society without the assault weapons ban.

The fringe extremity in these debates is always so disappointing.

Surely you've forgotten about how the violent crime rate plummeted after the assault weapons ban expired...

I own what the politicians would call an "assault weapon". Does that automatically mean I'm an anchor on today's society, holding it back from what it could be?

Please cite statistics on how so-called assault weapons are the weapon of choice for murders. Go on. I'll wait.















Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[JBecker]

Surely you've forgotten about how the violent crime rate plummeted after the assault weapons ban expired...

Don't bring logic and facts into a discussion with people who base their opinion off emotions and what the media tells them. Soon they'll call us extremists. Oh wait....

 

[JBecker]

single shot guns

lol ...

 

[WillK]

No intentions of spreading this beyond NYC?

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/nyregion/bloomberg-focuses-on-rest-as-in-rest-of-world.html?from=homepage

Good for him! Helping other cities out with his money. He's a philanthropist- he gives millions away every year. Nothing wrong with having a plan. Nowhere did I read about gun control though...

Interesting that people are concerned about the new law in NYC, yet LINYRunner talks about owning an assault rifle. Doesn't sound like that bad in NY after all. I bet LINYRunner can even buy a Super Big Gulp if he wants...

Understand, I'm NOT for gun control. My point was don't sweat NYC. Contrary to what people say here, NY is not the standard for politics in this country. They're not even the standard in their own state. If it was, the whole state would have gun bans on, fat bans and Super Big Gulp bans on, but they don't.

The fight for gun control isn't in NY, it's in the states that were not long ago blue states that are now red. That's where ground will be lost. NYC was lost long ago.

And really, there's still the three letter word organization to deal with- NRA.

I'm not worried...

 

[ndcent]

Straw man arguments aside, unfettered access to assault weapons (quotation marks or otherwise) is indeed an extremist view and you're in the minority. The inability to acknowledge that and explore more tactful ways of protecting what you believe in is troubling to say the least.

 

[JBecker]

Straw man arguments aside, unfettered access to assault weapons (quotation marks or otherwise) is indeed an extremist view and you're in the minority. The inability to acknowledge that and explore more tactful ways of protecting what you believe in is troubling to say the least.

Shall not be infringed is a straw man argument? Have you not seen the FBI's data on crime with all long guns? On average 320 or so die per year due to all semiautomatic rifles, shotguns, and precision rifles. In comparison about 35,000 die on Americas roadways from automobile accidents.

So given these facts from the FBI and the NHTSA, who had a straw man argument, and who is basing their opinion on hard data and facts?

I'll wait for your informed and intelligent response.

 

[hikenbike]

Shall not be infringed is a straw man argument? Have you not seen the FBI's data on crime with all long guns? On average 320 or so die per year due to all semiautomatic rifles, shotguns, and precision rifles. In comparison about 35,000 die on Americas roadways from automobile accidents.

So given these facts from the FBI and the NHTSA, who had a straw man argument, and who is basing their opinion on hard data and facts?

I'll wait for your informed and intelligent response.

What a God awful stupid comparison. If you need explanation as to why then you should be embarrassed.

 

[JBecker]

What a God awful stupid comparison. If you need explanation as to why then you should be embarrassed.

How is that a bad comparison? You realize more people die every year from wild animal attacks than long guns here? The death rate is less than 1 per 1 million for the United States. In contrast there are approximately 195,000 deaths from medical mistakes per year in the US, and over a half million deaths from heart disease every year. There are literally over 1 million deaths every year from people dying as a direct relation to eating their fat asses to death.

So tell me, how exactly is 320 deaths per year a problem? It's only a problem because the liberal media tells you to jump and you say how high.

Please bring facts and data to the argument or see yourself out. If you would like to check my numbers see the FBI, NHTSA, and CDC.

 

[nevada]

What a God awful stupid comparison. If you need explanation as to why then you should be embarrassed.

explain your position, or stfu.

 

[SV_Dude]

Interesting that people are concerned about the new law in NYC, yet LINYRunner talks about owning an assault rifle. Doesn't sound like that bad in NY after all. I bet LINYRunner can even buy a Super Big Gulp if he wants...

We are concerned about NYC because they are talking about theft of people's privately owned property. NYC may not be the voice of the state but every path starts somewhere. Yes, there are problems nation wide with politicians who are on the hunt for an all out gun ban. Because of that I am worried.

What a God awful stupid comparison. If you need explanation as to why then you should be embarrassed.

There's not a whole lot in this thread that you have said that I can agree with. This is one thing that I do agree with though. Comparing vehicles and hospitals to guns are completely different arguments. Doctors and hospitals save millions of lives every year. Cars and transportation in general are the back bone of our economy and the infrastructure of our nation. I firmly believe that if it weren't for our guns that we wouldn't have the freedom that we have now. But there isn't any ground to stand on to compare guns to doctors or cars.



A better argument would have been something along the lines of comparing the number of deaths from long guns and the so called hi-cap mags (owned by legal owners) to the number of deaths from stabbings and shootings from thugs who refuse to follow any law and who do not own any weapon legally.

 

[SV_Dude]

I think you can be pro 2a without thinking everyone should be able to freely buy high capacity semiautomatic weapons.

What is a high cap magazine? Let the high cap magazine law run across the nation and then 5 years from now a 15 round magazine will be high capacity. Next thing you know anything other than a single shot black powder rifle will be illegal.

On this side of the debate we consider 30-round mags to be "standard capacity"

Exactly!

How long does it take someone to change a magazine? 3 seconds if you're slow and taking your time? That means that you can do just as much damage with 2 15 rounds magazine than you can with a 30 round magazine with only needing 3 more seconds. The magazine size isn't the problem.

The magazine size is a stepping stone for the politicians to start making head way on more ridiculous laws. All they need to do is make people think that one useless law made a difference then the door opens to a whole new level of non sense.

 

[JBecker]

I'm gonna assume that was directed at me. You don't think guns are used for good in this country? Or worldwide? There are tens of thousands of instances every year where a firearm in the hands of a good guy either saved a life, stopped a crime, or let a good guy make it home to their family.

Regarding the economy, where do you think these weapons are made? In America by Americans. It's a booming business and one of the few American manufacturing fields still left in this nation.

 

[RunninInGA]

A better argument would have been something along the lines of comparing the number of deaths from long guns and the so called hi-cap mags (owned by legal owners) to the number of deaths from stabbings and shootings from thugs who refuse to follow any law and who do not own any weapon legally.

Or to acknowledge that a very significant portion of the gun death statistics include suicide and police-related incidents.




See how effective an armed officer was at quelling the Colorado shooting versus Newtown?

 

[JBecker]

Or to acknowledge that a very significant portion of the gun death statistics include suicide and police-related incidents.

Nearly 20,000 per year are suicides and about 1,000 per year are from officer involved shootings. The remaining majority represent a significant gang problem and other various criminal activities. If you localize those shootings you see a strong trend toward urban areas with mostly democratic political control.

 

[WFO_Racer]

Nearly 20,000 per year are suicides and about 1,000 per year are from officer involved shootings. The remaining majority represent a significant gang problem and other various criminal activities. If you localize those shootings you see a strong trend toward urban areas with mostly democratic political control.

I was telling a liberal parent at my kids school, if you remove the minorities from the equation the figures are even more eye opening.

This is why going the 80/20 route is preferred. No paper trail, nobody but your family knows what you own. No good ever comes from letting the government more than they need to know.

3D metal printers cannot get main stream quick enough for me.