Nitrogen tires

K0nfusion

New member
So, when I purchased my T4R, it came with all the tires filled with Nitrogen. I love all the benefits of having my tires filled with nitrogen, but then it dawned on me that I don't have a nitrogen compressor at my house, nor have I ever seen a gas station that has a nitrogen station. So lets say I do develope a slow leak someday, can I just add regular air....or what?
 
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IMO, repeat, IMO, this is a great scam (if you pay for it). You are asking the right questions - ask them of the guy who sold you these "great benefits".

Oh, btw, the air you're breathing right now? -- It's 78.09% nitrogen.
 
Despite what grumpy pants says there are benefits to nitrogen (I wouldn't pay extra for it though)

You can get your tires filled with nitrogen for free at Costco or add regular air if you wish with no ill effects.
 
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So, baggy pants, what's in your tires?

And do you drive to Costco if yer 2# low in the left front?

Cost-benefit son, cost-benefit. I didn't say "no benefit".
 
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Lol, trust me I didn't pay for it. As an aircraft mechanic I know all the benefits...but I refuse to pay for it. It was just something the dealership gave me. (I'm sure they charged me somehow)
 
Despite what grumpy pants says there are benefits to nitrogen (I wouldn't pay extra for it though)

You can get your tires filled with nitrogen for free at Costco or add regular air if you wish with no ill effects.

Please elaborate, feel free to include some scientifically conducted studies that validate the use of nitrogen.

The only testing I've ever seen on using nitrogen in tires showed that there was something like 1.2psi less pressure lost on tires inflated to 30psi vs. regular air over a 6 month period.

Some racing teams claimed that nitrogen filled tires had less pressure fluctuation due to high temperatures from extreme speeds/cornering which helped give them that tiny edge that can make a difference on the race track. I have seen no proof of this, but giving the benefit of the doubt that it is real, I can't see any benefit in normal day to day driving on the highway, esp. on a T4R.

I've seen some vague claims about tires lasting longer, but never a shred of proof or any pretense of the science behind it - presumably normal air on the outside of a tire causes no harm, but on the inside of the tire it's destructive?

Less corrosion on rims? I've never experienced a rim, valve or tpms sensor corroded from the inside. I air my tires down at least once a month and mostly refill from a portable compressor that does not do a very good job of drying the air. Over 350,000 miles on tpms equipped vehicles w/ aluminum rims and never a failure or any indication of corrosion.

Looking for any valid data that conclusively shows Nitrogen will do anything more than extract money from consumers wallets.

David
 
So, baggy pants, what's in your tires?

And do you drive to Costco if yer 2# low in the left front?

Cost-benefit son, cost-benefit. I didn't say "no benefit".

See phillyd2's post my friend!

He is so anal that he drives to Costco every day. :thumb3:

Please elaborate, feel free to include some scientifically conducted studies that validate the use of nitrogen.

I don't feel like wasting my time explaining it, especially since I'm SURE you are a self proclaimed expert here. There are benefits, that's all I said. You have google- look it up.
 
[MENTION=96409]Canazes9[/MENTION] I know the airline industry uses (N), and that it surely costs them to do so. I also believe without doubt that they are sophisticated enough to have studied, and justified, this cost (vs plain-ol air) for airplanes.

Same could be true for the racing industry - maybe, it's their money. My guess though, for them, it's "we'll try anything for that 2/10ths sec.".

For we day-to-day drivers, it's silliness if it costs ME anything including my time. It's in my wife's new Accord, at "no cost". Do I care? nah. Will I maintain it? Ha.
 
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I don't feel like wasting my time explaining it, especially since I'm SURE you are a self proclaimed expert here. There are benefits, that's all I said. You have google- look it up.

I've googled plenty - lots of claims, very little proof. A 1.2psi (or something close to that) difference in pressure loss over 6 months is the only thing I've ever seen proven. The rest of it is pixie dust and conjecture.

David
 
Please elaborate, feel free to include some scientifically conducted studies that validate the use of nitrogen.

The only testing I've ever seen on using nitrogen in tires showed that there was something like 1.2psi less pressure lost on tires inflated to 30psi vs. regular air over a 6 month period.

Did you mean to ask and answer your own question? Antman said there are benefits, he didn't say they were major. If you don't want to use it, don't...

Also, places that use nitrogen are at least cognizant of what is going in tires... Can't tell you how many times I've seen poorly maintained compressors with excessive condensation going in tires. Avoiding that may be benefit enough for some.
 
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Juice isn't worth the squeeze to use nitrogen. My GTR comes from factory with nitrogen but I use regular air now. Not worth the hassle to drive all the way to a place that has nitrogen.
 
Both my dealer and the tech at Costco said nitro has reduced TPMS related calls by a half or more. I live at 4500 ft. elevation. Rapid overnight temperature dips would trigger the TPMS and everyone would show up at the dealer wondering what was wrong with their car.
 
Did you mean to ask and answer your own question? Antman said there are benefits, he didn't say they were major. If you don't want to use it, don't... But it's rather pompous to pop in and demand proof and scientific studies.

Also, places that use nitrogen are at least cognizant of what is going in tires... Can't tell you how many times I've seen poorly maintained compressors with excessive condensation going in tires. Avoiding that may be benefit enough for some.

I didn't demand anything - I even said please!

All I've ever seen quoted on using Nitrogen in tires doesn't have any applicability in passenger vehicles that are properly maintained. Most of the information comes from studies conducted on large load bearing commercial vehicles and as such the standards are different.

When commercial tires are run at 100psi and may log many many thousands of miles between service, often running between different temperatures the difference in maintained pressure is greater. I forget the actual difference in tires psi, but the difference fuel mileage resulting from the pressure difference can add up to a few percent increase when running with nitrogen. But that's a few percent increase in doing nothing with nitrogen vs doing nothing with air. There is no difference when air pressures are properly maintained. Fleet managers are also buying nitrogen in bulk at commodity prices, not paying $5 per fill... Its a fleet management issue that just doesn't translate into realized savings for the average consumer (if you can't get the drivers to keep the tires inflated on their rigs, switch to nitrogen and they won't lose as much).

Tire degradation due to oxidation is another plus for nitrogen that is brought up. I saw a summary of a study that indicated oxidation of the inner liner of tires pressurized with nitrogen experienced 70+% less oxidation. This sounds good and impressive until you realize that rubber oxidation is very slow to degrade tires and the average tire on a passenger vehicle will be discarded long before any significant oxidation can occur - a commercial tire that is being re-treaded many times MAY gain an additional re-tread due to decreased oxidation over the course of the carcasses multi-hundred thousand mile life span. Additionally, oxidation requires significant heat, heat that tires on passenger vehicles just don't generate. Oxidation of tires on passenger vehicles is a non-issue.

The other thing I see brought up constantly is corrosion from moisture. Again higher loads, higher heat, steel rims that could theoretically see a million plus miles - maybe they are seeing some corrosion. I've never seen a passenger vehicle rim/tpms that had significant corrosion from using air - not saying it doesn't exist, just I've never seen it.

I have difficulty believing that even your average soccer mom that never checks their tires could realize any actual fuel savings, much less anyone that actually maintains their vehicles. Nitrogen in commercial scale/fleet management may have some limited benefits, I have yet to see anything that would make me want to drive even a mile down the road to fill my tires with nitrogen for free. If someone has some data showing that nitrogen in tires for passenger vehicles actually has some benefit other than padding the pockets of the auto/tire dealership I would genuinely like to see it. I'm sorry if that's seen as rude, I've looked a lot, I can't find anything applicable to passenger vehicle use.

David
 
...I have difficulty believing that even your average soccer mom that never checks their tires could realize any actual fuel savings, much less anyone that actually maintains their vehicles...

The above two scenarios are great examples of who would benefit and who would not benefit from nitrogen tire fill. The average soccer mom that never checks the tire pressure probably goes many many months between visits to her local tire shop (where presumably they would check/refill as needed). This means she would probably lose less air between fill ups if her shop filled the tires up with nitrogen vs conventional air.

On the other hand, you have the average car enthusiast (like most of us on here), whom probably check their tire pressure routinely and keep them topped off all the time. Of course we're not going to benefit that much from nitrogen fill :)

Exactly how much air loss is hard to say due to too many variables. We have to take into consideration that not every one on the road have pristine condition wheels (with a perfectly smooth inner surface for the tire bead to seal against); also lots of people are still rolling around with rubber valve stems (which often might not seal as perfectly as TPMS valve stems), etc.

For example on my older vehicles, which have had dozens of tire changes, I've noticed the inner surface where the tire bead seals against is either corroded a bit or gummed up with rubbery stuff (from previous tire beads?), or both. This is clearly not going to seal as well as the brand new wheels on my 4runner.

I would imagine on a less than ideal tire/wheel combo, nitrogen would leak out noticeably slower than regular air; whereas on a pristine tire/wheel combo, you really can't tell the difference since well...if it ain't leaking much conventional air to begin with, how the heck can you tell how much less nitrogen leaks, lol.

This is just hearsay, but my dad has commented about how his tires leak a lot less now since costco started using nitrogen to fill his tires. His wheels are cheapo stamped steel with over 15 years of tire changing and rust. Coincidence or not? You be the judge.
 
The above two scenarios are great examples of who would benefit and who would not benefit from nitrogen tire fill. The average soccer mom that never checks the tire pressure probably goes many many months between visits to her local tire shop (where presumably they would check/refill as needed). This means she would probably lose less air between fill ups if her shop filled the tires up with nitrogen vs conventional air.

On the other hand, you have the average car enthusiast (like most of us on here), whom probably check their tire pressure routinely and keep them topped off all the time. Of course we're not going to benefit that much from nitrogen fill :)

Exactly how much air loss is hard to say due to too many variables. We have to take into consideration that not every one on the road have pristine condition wheels (with a perfectly smooth inner surface for the tire bead to seal against); also lots of people are still rolling around with rubber valve stems (which often might not seal as perfectly as TPMS valve stems), etc.

For example on my older vehicles, which have had dozens of tire changes, I've noticed the inner surface where the tire bead seals against is either corroded a bit or gummed up with rubbery stuff (from previous tire beads?), or both. This is clearly not going to seal as well as the brand new wheels on my 4runner.

I would imagine on a less than ideal tire/wheel combo, nitrogen would leak out noticeably slower than regular air; whereas on a pristine tire/wheel combo, you really can't tell the difference since well...if it ain't leaking much conventional air to begin with, how the heck can you tell how much less nitrogen leaks, lol.

This is just hearsay, but my dad has commented about how his tires leak a lot less now since costco started using nitrogen to fill his tires. His wheels are cheapo stamped steel with over 15 years of tire changing and rust. Coincidence or not? You be the judge.

I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence similar to that. I don't discount that. At the same time I was hoping for some evidence from a study. As mentioned before, the only study I've seen indicated 1.2psi over 6 months. 1.2 psi (or whatever the difference was) would be enough to trip TPMS significantly sooner on a vehicle where the tire pressure was being checked every 6 months or so say when the vehicle was being brought in for oil change.

I have trouble believing gas mileage difference from 1.2psi creating enough difference to be to pay for $20 worth of nitrogen fill, but I will concede that may still seem worth it to some if it keeps their tpms from tripping between oil changes.

David
 
[MENTION=96409]Canazes9[/MENTION] I know the airline industry uses (N), and that it surely costs them to do so. I also believe without doubt that they are sophisticated enough to have studied, and justified, this cost (vs plain-ol air) for airplanes.
They use nitrogen in aircraft tires because it is non-flammable.
 
They use nitrogen in aircraft tires because it is non-flammable.

What's the reasoning there? Pressurized O2 in the plane during flight? Landing hazard? Been linked to an accident/accident exacerbation in the past?

I don't doubt that's the reason, just curious.

David
 

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