No KDSS for FJ Cruiser ?

[05Rrunner]

If KDSS is the best for off road why do you think Toyota does not offer it
(at least the option) on there one specific off road model the "FJ" ?

KDSS is on the lexus GX460 and the (very rare) newer land cruiser. Both expensive family style wagons that are not marketed to the off road crowd any more.

KDSS seems to be more of a rollover stability item for on road driving while still allowing it to go off road some.

 

[Jeremy556]

Cost? It is on the Prado 150 and 200 series.

If it were for "family wagons," why would it only be an option on the Trail model, and not available on the mainstream SR5 or luxury Limited models?

 

[05Rrunner]

Cost? It is on the Prado 150 and 200 series.

If it were for "family wagons," why would it only be an option on the Trail model, and not available on the mainstream SR5 or luxury Limited models?

Not buying the "cost" thing, If it really rocked in the "FJ" off road It would be a option on the "FJ" Trail Teams model at least,just like the trail option for the 4runner.
It is not offered on the limited it has xreas as standard. No Idea no SR5.

 

[KCcarguy]

It is a handling/ ride feature. Not an offroad performance feature. And its expensive.

 

[homeyclaus]

Product planning 101:

There is a (1) question of demand, and there is a (2) question of "how to meet customer expectations" and the (3) question of "will it sell, ideally with the least amount of incentive loss."

KDSS comes out as:

1. Low
2. For larger body-on-frame SUVs it helps on-road handling without being detrimental to off-road handling.
3. Only in large specialty SUVs.

In short, the calculus of how effectively it'll sell or perform in an FJ did not meet the certainty requirements.

On a longer wheelbase SUV, it either helps enough to be a sales "plus" (T4RTE), or is needed to meet customer expectations of handling and performance (LC200/LX570, LC150/Prado/GX460).

Or in layman's terms - it does not help enough to justify the cost of development, support, and marketing for the FJ.

 

[GrantK]

Actually, KDSS does help off road. It acts like a sway bar disconnect by adjusting the pressure in the corners and it helps level the truck which provides better traction and stability.

One reason it's not on the FJ is cost. The FJ is intended to be a lower priced SUV and Toyota marketing doesn't see the FJ market supporting the cost of having KDSS on it so they don't offer it.

 

[mgrande]

If you want offroad performance than just take your swaybar off

 

[MT4X4]

The new 2013 Trail Team Edition FJ Cruisers will be receiving the KDSS option along with crawl control like the Trail Edition 4Runner.

Personally we wanted our TE 4runner to not have KDSS plus it wouldn't of worked with our 2" LT kit from TC. Although it is a nice feature to have a good quality coilover is going to work just as well and perform hand over fist off road for ride quality.

 

[TRDCal]

It is a handling/ ride feature. Not an offroad performance feature. And its expensive.

What? How do you make that arguement when it's only available on the TE. Sounds like your talking about xreas.

I was under the impression its purpose is to allow for more wheel articulation while not compromising on road handling.

 

[MT4X4]

What? How do you make that arguement when it's only available on the TE. Sounds like your talking about xreas.

I was under the impression its purpose is to allow for more wheel articulation while not compromising on road handling.

The KDSS is a hydraulic ram mounted to the sway bar to push or pull the suspension arms to control body roll off road. There isn't any extra suspension travel with or without the KDSS. The only way to achieve that is to purchase a coilover that has the extended travel specs (extra 7/8" of down travel) and aftermarket upper control arms with a high misalignment joint (ex. Total Chaos, Icon, Light Racing, etc)

 

[KCcarguy]

What? How do you make that arguement when it's only available on the TE. Sounds like your talking about xreas.

I was under the impression its purpose is to allow for more wheel articulation while not compromising on road handling.

It allows a thicker swaybar (better on-road handling) while still allowing for decent articulation (off-road performance).

The KDSS is a hydraulic ram mounted to the sway bar to push or pull the suspension arms to control body roll off road. There isn't any extra suspension travel with or without the KDSS. The only way to achieve that is to purchase a coilover that has the extended travel specs (extra 7/8" of down travel) and aftermarket upper control arms with a high misalignment joint (ex. Total Chaos, Icon, Light Racing, etc)

Yep.

For the record. If I was to do it over again, I would buy a TE with KDSS. The road manners are awesome. But there is no huge advantage of a KDSS-equiped TE over a non KDSS TE when it comes to off-road capability. And I would agree with LT that coil-overs, UCAs, and tires turn the 4runner into a great all-around package.

 

[harper7]

The KDSS is a hydraulic ram mounted to the sway bar to push or pull the suspension arms to control body roll off road. There isn't any extra suspension travel with or without the KDSS. The only way to achieve that is to purchase a coilover that has the extended travel specs (extra 7/8" of down travel) and aftermarket upper control arms with a high misalignment joint (ex. Total Chaos, Icon, Light Racing, etc)

Finally ,somebody else that understands how KDSS works and what it does!!
With KDSS,I don't believe you even get the extra travel of the aftermarket UCA's or the extended travel CO's. That's due to the set up and down travel of the KDSS hydraulic ram and the set length of the link on the other side connected to the frame that acts as a fulcrum point to raise or lower the sway bar on the pass. side. That's why it's so hard to get the sway bar re-attached to the LCA's doing a lift as I found out.

It is great for onroad handling with the big sway bar.

 

[05Rrunner]

The new 2013 Trail Team Edition FJ Cruisers will be receiving the KDSS option along with crawl control like the Trail Edition 4Runner.
.

Not true , 2013 trail teams info is out cement color is the big change

 

[fxoffroad]

TOYOTA: KDSS in the 2010 Toyota 4Runner - An array of advanced features, formerly only available in the Land Cruiser, further boosts off-highway capabilities. The Trail grade offers Toyotas Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System (KDSS) as an option. KDSS radically improves terrain-following ability by disconnecting stabilizer bars to allow for more axle travel, and better suspension articulation in slow, difficult terrain."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xfYNEQKh38Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[bofa]

For the record. If I was to do it over again, I would buy a TE with KDSS. The road manners are awesome. But there is no huge advantage of a KDSS-equiped TE over a non KDSS TE when it comes to off-road capability. And I would agree with LT that coil-overs, UCAs, and tires turn the 4runner into a great all-around package.

Did you mean "wouldn't"?

 

[KCcarguy]

^No. I can tell you from personal experience that coilovers, LT tires, and UCAs improve ride, handling, and off-road performance.

 

[KCcarguy]

TOYOTA: KDSS in the 2010 Toyota 4Runner - An array of advanced features, formerly only available in the Land Cruiser, further boosts off-highway capabilities. The Trail grade offers Toyotas Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System (KDSS) as an option. KDSS radically improves terrain-following ability by disconnecting stabilizer bars to allow for more axle travel, and better suspension articulation in slow, difficult terrain.[/
QUOTE]
Ok then. Maybe those of us without KDSS should think twice before going offroad.

 

[1engineer]

The KDSS is a hydraulic ram mounted to the sway bar to push or pull the suspension arms to control body roll off road. There isn't any extra suspension travel with or without the KDSS. The only way to achieve that is to purchase a coilover that has the extended travel specs (extra 7/8" of down travel) and aftermarket upper control arms with a high misalignment joint (ex. Total Chaos, Icon, Light Racing, etc)

Finally ,somebody else that understands how KDSS works and what it does!!
With KDSS,I don't believe you even get the extra travel of the aftermarket UCA's or the extended travel CO's. That's due to the set up and down travel of the KDSS hydraulic ram and the set length of the link on the other side connected to the frame that acts as a fulcrum point to raise or lower the sway bar on the pass. side. That's why it's so hard to get the sway bar re-attached to the LCA's doing a lift as I found out.

It is great for onroad handling with the big sway bar.

Everyone you need to read these two above posts as they are correct in every way.

I watched several videos of the KDSS system last night on youtube. While it is hard to separate marketing hype truth from real truth here is what is happening:

Let's compare first a SR5. The SR5 has no KDSS and the swaybar is much smaller. These are the only two differences in suspension compared to a Trail. Everything else is the same - UCA's, LCA's springs and most important geometry. I have an SR5 and the body roll on road is more pronounced than a trail. Off road it does fine and provides the same articulation as a Trail because the geometry is the same.

If I were doing a truthful commercial without any marketing here is what it would be:
"The Trail has a bigger sway bar to help body lean during highway driving. If we kept it like this with no additions it would cause you to have less articulation off road and your wheels would not touch the ground over little bumps. We fixed that by adding a system called KDSS that lets the Trail change the sway bar stiffness by magic and give you the same articulation as the Limited and SR5 with it's puny sway bar. So now you have the best of both worlds: Great handling without as much body roll and off road performance as good as the other models."

This is the truth. You have to listen to the words of the videos and don't fall for the mumbo jumbo. Even the print ads are misleading. I can say something like "Improves off road performance" and still be truthful. How? By comparing it to the Trail with a big sway bar and no KDSS. Never mind they don't make that model (the TE with no KDSS comes with the SR5 sway bar). Now, if I said "The Trail with KDSS outperforms all other 4Runners because it has KDSS that would be a lie." Watch the wording.

With that said I still like KDSS because the majority of my driving is on the highway and just might get a TE one of these days. I won't fall for the hype though.

 

[philsey]

Not true , 2013 trail teams info is out cement color is the big change

This made me laugh. "Mall camouflage" came to mind.

/back to arguing over KDSS

 

[1engineer]

TOYOTA: KDSS in the 2010 Toyota 4Runner - An array of advanced features, formerly only available in the Land Cruiser, further boosts off-highway capabilities. The Trail grade offers Toyotas Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System (KDSS) as an option. KDSS radically improves terrain-following ability by disconnecting stabilizer bars to allow for more axle travel, and better suspension articulation in slow, difficult terrain.[/
QUOTE]
Ok then. Maybe those of us without KDSS should think twice before going offroad.

This is a perfect quote. It makes it sound like KDSS is akin to walking on water offroad and something Jesus would drive. What it DOES NOT say though is what is it better than? Boosts off highway capabilities? From a TE with a big sway bar and no KDSS? That would be true. From a SR5 with a little sway bar? That would be false. Same thing for "radically improves..." Radically improves over what? Again, maybe over a 1956 Buick but not an LE or a SR5. Gotta watch the wording lol.