No KDSS for FJ Cruiser ?

[Thai]

You are giving the stock sway bar way too much credit here, also giving the insurance company too much credit as well. I wrecked my old truck to the tune of $10,000 and it didn't have a sway bar. I lost control but not because of the sway bar, because I broke the driver side tie rod and couldn't steer. The insurance company had no idea the sway bar was removed, in fact they probably thought it broke in the accident because when the shop fixed my truck they put new sway bar end links back on my truck. But yes of course someone would feel guilt if they killed someone in an accident regardless of how their vehicle was modified or rather not modified.

The question is...if you had the sways in, then would it affect the outcome? Probably not you say. Ok. Now, if your accident had involved the death of a person or a high profile accident involving many other individuals/cars. Do you think that your insurance company won't look more closely? Do you think that there will be investigators from insurance companies (both yours and the other side) looking in on it? Private investigators?

Look, for me, if you caused an accident injuring me or my family, and i see that your truck is modified (esp. modified incorrectly for on-road driving), i will go to the end of the earth to make you pay dearly...as Steve Jobs would say, i will go "thermonuclear war" on your arse!! I would spend all my money to get you behind bars or worst.

 

[rebelbowtie]

The question is...if you had the sways in, then would it affect the outcome? Probably not you say. Ok. Now, if your accident had involved the death of a person or a high profile accident involving many other individuals/cars. Do you think that your insurance company won't look more closely? Do you think that there will be investigators from insurance companies (both yours and the other side) looking in on it? Private investigators?

Look, for me, if you caused an accident injuring me or my family, and i see that your truck is modified (esp. modified incorrectly for on-road driving), i will go to the end of the earth to make you pay dearly...as Steve Jobs would say, i will go "thermonuclear war" on your arse!! I would spend all my money to get you behind bars or worst.

There are a lot of what ifs and worst case scenarios and in this one you're correct. I know that's what you want to hear and I can't argue that if lives were lost then insurance and or lawyers would use that against you and rightfully so. Many mods that we do to our vehicles render some sort of safety feature useless. Modern bumpers are designed to work with the vehicle frames crush and impact zones during an accident. You don't think putting an off road bumper on a 4Runner changes that dynamic? So I wouldn't suggest condemning someone because they want to remove their sway bar, just gently err them with caution.

 

[Thai]

I'm not really sure why everyone is in such a twist over KDSS. I've done a fair bit of off roading in my truck and granted I'm not driving the Rubicon or Dusy Ershim, but sway bars haven't been that big a differentiator in what we've been able to tackle. More often it's tires, armour, clearance, lockers, and, most important of all, driver ability.

This is actually a great post! IMO, KDSS actually should be on vehicles with lesser traction-assistive devices (aka locker). With locker(s) and to a lesser extent super aggressive traction control (CRAWL or lo-only ATRAC), the need for flexy suspension becomes less. I remember my old days off-roading with my 2004 G500. My fully-locked G-wagen would go up a nasty hill fairly easily while those long-armed old trucks (with open diffs) would bounce up and down scratching their way to the top.

Intruder's lack of need for flexy suspension (he states other stuff more important) is probably the result of his traction devices (rear locker, CRAWL, etc.). KDSS becomes less important off-road as you gain more toys. For open diffs vehicles (SR5 & Limited), KDSS represent a positive tool because it allows your tires to remain in contact with the ground. ATRAC is nice, but it pulsates the power transfer to the stuffed wheel. Although effective torque on the dangling wheel is limited, it is better than nothing.

So, yeah, while i think that KDSS is great, i do think that the rear locker is a hundred times better! But, then again, a rear locker does nothing on-road except destroy your diff if you forget to unlock it. This is again where KDSS offers a dual benefit. Should KDSS be on every 4runner? Yes. It is an expensive tool though...and probably why it is not on FJ and SR5.

 

[Thai]

You don't think putting an off road bumper on a 4Runner changes that dynamic? So I wouldn't suggest condemning someone because they want to remove their sway bar, just gently err them with caution.

That is why i don't like aftermarket bumpers...but if i had to pick, then i would get ARB simply because they have publicly stated that it has been crash-tested. This provides assurance for ME, but also adds a (thin) layer of protection if my ARB-equipped car injures someone else in a head-on collision.

But, b/w a bumper and removing sways, which do you think has more a dynamic effect on how a car handles on-road? Which potentially can cause A LOT more harm to oneself and others? That's my point.

KDSS, therefore, represents the SAFEST route and the BEST compromise for an on-road and off-road capable vehicle. The same can be said about Jeep Wrangler Rubicon's front sway disconnects from factory.

In other words,

Don't knock it til you try it.

I have ridden in a KDSS-equipped SUV (GX470) and seen if off-road against FJC...there is no question that i am a fan of the technology.

 

[rebelbowtie]

That is why i don't like aftermarket bumpers...but if i had to pick, then i would get ARB simply because they have publicly stated that it has been crash-tested. This provides assurance for ME, but also adds a (thin) layer of protection if my ARB-equipped car injures someone else in a head-on collision.

But, b/w a bumper and removing sways, which do you think has more a dynamic effect on how a car handles on-road? Which potentially can cause A LOT more harm to oneself and others? That's my point.

KDSS, therefore, represents the SAFEST route and the BEST compromise for an on-road and off-road capable vehicle. The same can be said about Jeep Wrangler Rubicon's front sway disconnects from factory.

In other words,


I have ridden in a KDSS-equipped SUV (GX470) and seen if off-road against FJC...there is no question that i am a fan of the technology.

I didn't make that statement so we could compare an O/R bumper to removing a sway bar because that's comparing apples to dildos. This thread jack is getting long in the tooth and I don't even know what the OP was anymore.

I will say that I wouldn't care if my TE had KDSS or not. I think the system is overly complicated for what it is. I simple mechanical disconnect like on Jeeps and Ram Powerwagon are a much better solution IMO. I want a TE for the locking diff and more aggressive ATRAC and that's about it, I could live without crawl control as well.

And I want a Lexus GX simply because I am a sucker for soft touch interiors and luxury options.

 

[Thai]

I will say that I wouldn't care if my TE had KDSS or not. I think the system is overly complicated for what it is. I simple mechanical disconnect like on Jeeps and Ram Powerwagon are a much better solution IMO. I want a TE for the locking diff and more aggressive ATRAC and that's about it, I could live without crawl control as well.

And I want a Lexus GX simply because I am a sucker for soft touch interiors and luxury options.

I would bet one peso that you WOULD care if your TE did not have KDSS. The alternative is the softly-suspended SR5 suspension. (Limited has a nearly as complicated XREAS.)

Actually, KDSS has to be that way because it serves two purpose. It provides a better ride ON-road as well as improved articulation off-road. The simple disco's on the Wrangler Rubis and PowerWagon only serve one purpose. As far as i know, all Wranglers have the same sway bars. These simple disco's don't do jack on-road. KDSS does. That is where the complexity comes in...providing dual benefits with one technology.

 

[rebelbowtie]

I would bet one peso that you WOULD care if your TE did not have KDSS. The alternative is the softly-suspended SR5 suspension. (Limited has a nearly as complicated XREAS.)

Actually, KDSS has to be that way because it serves two purpose. It provides a better ride ON-road as well as improved articulation off-road. The simple disco's on the Wrangler Rubis and PowerWagon only serve one purpose. As far as i know, all Wranglers have the same sway bars. These simple disco's don't do jack on-road. KDSS does. That is where the complexity comes in...providing dual benefits with one technology.

The SR5 5th gen cannot be that bad, my 4th gen SR5 drives just fine. It's a body on frame truck so I don't ask too much from it in terms of on road comfort and handling. As it sits it already handles and drives nicer than the 3/4 ton and later trucks I am used to driving.

 

[mgrande]

This thread is going downhill fast. If you have a TE with KDSS awesome, its a great system and a huge improvement over traditional sways. If you have an SR5 with coilovers (especially icons or sway aways) then take 30 minutes to remove the front sway bar and see how you like it for a day or two. If you have a family then it might not be best, but for a single guy like me its fine. My truck is my daily driver and since I removed my sway bar I have slightly more body roll compared to a stock truck, and that's kings and #600 springs. Hofs05 has driven my truck and doesn't notice a big difference compared to her SR5 on road.

 

[Dirtluver]

This thread is going downhill fast. If you have a TE with KDSS awesome, its a great system and a huge improvement over traditional sways. If you have an SR5 with coilovers (especially icons or sway aways) then take 30 minutes to remove the front sway bar and see how you like it for a day or two. If you have a family then it might not be best, but for a single guy like me its fine. My truck is my daily driver and since I removed my sway bar I have slightly more body roll compared to a stock truck, and that's kings and #600 springs. Hofs05 has driven my truck and doesn't notice a big difference compared to her SR5 on road.

I agree. I'm a single guy running without any sway bars on my 03 T4R LTD with OME 886 heavy package in the front and the truck is not dangerous even on highway and i'm not always calm on highway except that i never really running over 75mph. My articulation is completely different when crawling. With open diffs and sway bars on, i was not able to climb a 12inch rock without slipping. Like after a lot of mods, you always have to modify your driving. And i just want to mention that my old 95 corolla came originally without any sway bars.

 

[Orc]

with the FJ being discontinued who cares what it has?

 

[The Waco Kid]