No more 4r's after 1014 ?

[JayceeP]

yeah i dont think toyota is making 35k per vehicle. probably around 5k tops (more realistic is around 2-3k) after parts, labor, r&d, etc.

I was referring to revenue (I said cash flow) not profit. That's a tremendous amount of revenue for 1 model in 1 country for a "dying breed" that some claim it to be.

And if they only make a fraction of the profit a camry does (invalid comparison) then so be it. $100 or $200 million in profit is still a profit. Why eliminate that- especially when you are now one of the only major players in the BOF SUV market.

 

[eddiebx]

Well of course it's a small drop in the total product mix compared to their big sellers. I was just speculating if the 4R sales/margins were enough for them to soldier on.

I would like to think so...however small a contribution to the overall mix it's still profitable. Unlike some vehicles deliberately being marketed as loss leaders in the red like some of the Big 3 sometimes do for instance (just imo).

I'm sure every little bit helps...I mean profit is profit, and at the end of the day it all adds up right?

If a car company trimmed their model line up down to strictly the current hot sellers, they're going to be in big trouble once that type of car is not a fad anymore.

 

[KCcarguy]

As far as I know Toyota has said they will keep the FJ cruiser because its their "pride and joy" as a heritage model and off-road offering; they understand its a small sales volume but want to keep it anyways, as with the 4Runner, at least for another generation...

Are you sure Toyota said that about the FJ and not the Land Cruiser? Why would a 7yo design take priority and hold more prestige within the company than the 4runner that's been around for over 25 years?

 

[LandCruiser]

Are you sure Toyota said that about the FJ and not the Land Cruiser? Why would a 7yo design take priority and hold more prestige within the company than the 4runner that's been around for over 25 years?

The FJ Cruiser isn't a Land Cruiser. It's some bastardized caricature that undermines a 50+ year heritage rather than honors it. Land Cruisers don't have independent suspension.

There's only one vehicle for sale today that has Land Cruiser blood in its veins.

I'd trade my 4Runner for one if they ever sold one here. But Toyota never will.

EVER.

btw, it comes with factory front, rear, and center lockers, diesel, snorkel, manual transmission, and, yes, those are manually locking hubs up front. I drove one over a trip to Australia two years ago and wanted to put it on a ship back to America.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I don't remember where I read the statement (Automobile, PM, PS, or something else) but Toyota basically said they are proud of their FJ and its niche market of enthusiasts and are scaling back production as they made a lot initially, but are not planning to cancel it anytime soon.

As for the FJ cruiser being a bastardized version of the original? The same could be said about the 4Runner as the 2nd gen was the last to utilize front and rear solid axles (IIRC) and now its got an IFS! Even the new Landcruisers are IFS (and IRS I believe, haven't checked.) Times change, things get changed and nameplates get used.

 

[FlatlandTRD]

Ok, first off, the 4rnr is fine. If anything is cut it will be the Sequoia since it's basically the same as the Land Cruiser (200 series). Some of us need to brush up on our 4rnr history too... Top4Runners.com - Toyota 4Runner Informational Website

The SFA was replace with IFS in '86, still 1st gen, the 2nd gen was introduced in '90, and continued to be small and capable off road. The 4rnr has always been a nicer version of the pickup, and later Tacoma with the same wheel base as the regular cab.

In '98 the LCs (100 series) went to IFS, and there are knock down drag-out web wars comparing the previous SFA (80 series) to the newer wagon. Yet there are those who buy $60K+ LCs today and actually wheel them. And the only things that have IRS are AWD Toyotas, pretty sure that's safe for a while too.

The FJC shares the Prado platform, which is called a Land Cruiser every where else, even says so right on the vehicle. But quite honestly, who cares?! I'd still rather wheel with any Land Cruiser, 4rnr, FJC, pickup, Tacoma, etc then the entitled heep crowd (I've tried, they get angry when you make the obstacle that stopped them look easy on smaller tires and less bolt-ons).

But getting back on topic, when I can travel in comfort, with plenty of power on the mountain passes, wheel some pretty decent stuff, in a vehicle that will last the test of time, and get back home... why would I care what Toyota does?! Ain't nobody got time for that!

 

[NoDak]

trust me, I don't want them to end the 4runner now or in the future. I learned my lesson back in 2007 when I got rid of my 04 runner. I went to a sonata for what I thought was a good idea (mpg for work every week and trips). what I didn't realize is for the bad winters we get here, the 4runner was a better feeling. FWD or 4wd/awd (hybrids) doesn't cut it in those deep snow falls/ice combo we get here, in the end true 4wd or Subaru awd makes a world of difference in my sanity/patience.

when I couldn't get up my slight incline in my driveway to get into the garage, that broke the camels back so to speak. I traded to a Subaru and have been dying to get back into a 4runner LE.

my father has been a loyal Toyota person and now me (since 84) and my converted wife are Toyota fans. when we gave up her 06 Tacoma for a 09 rav4 v6, I think she died a little that day even though she never showed it. just last summer we got her back into a Tacoma and she loves it regardless of the nit picks of the interior that I don't like.

one way or another this year or next year I will be getting back into a 4runner LE.

 

[sven]

If anything is cut it will be the Sequoia since it's basically the same as the Land Cruiser (200 series). . .

. . . And the only things that have IRS are AWD Toyotas, pretty sure that's safe for a while too.

Actually, the Sequoia has been IRS since the 2008 model year when the second generation debuted.

 

[nghiS4]

My 4Runner is a truck. Yours is an SUV.

Bring back the 1st Gen so I can buy one now, since I couldn't afford to back when I was in high school!

 

[KCcarguy]

The FJ Cruiser isn't a Land Cruiser. It's some bastardized caricature that undermines a 50+ year heritage rather than honors it. Land Cruisers don't have independent suspension.

There's only one vehicle for sale today that has Land Cruiser blood in its veins.

I'd trade my 4Runner for one if they ever sold one here. But Toyota never will.

EVER.

btw, it comes with factory front, rear, and center lockers, diesel, snorkel, manual transmission, and, yes, those are manually locking hubs up front. I drove one over a trip to Australia two years ago and wanted to put it on a ship back to America.

Yeah, the 70 is badd ass and I've drooled over it many times on Toyota.com.au. I think it's a little extreme to say it's the only one worthy of the LC name. Toyota doesn't take LC badge lightly and each vehicle with that badge can perform it's intended task admirably and without complaint. A 200 is pretty bloated compared to the 70, but they're not intended for the same task.

I agree that the 70 is more of an evolution of the original LC vs the FJ which is more "inspired by" the original. FJ are still a great concept and kudos to Toyota for having the balls to make them.

I don't remember where I read the statement (Automobile, PM, PS, or something else) but Toyota basically said they are proud of their FJ and its niche market of enthusiasts and are scaling back production as they made a lot initially, but are not planning to cancel it anytime soon.

As for the FJ cruiser being a bastardized version of the original? The same could be said about the 4Runner as the 2nd gen was the last to utilize front and rear solid axles (IIRC) and now its got an IFS! Even the new Landcruisers are IFS (and IRS I believe, haven't checked.) Times change, things get changed and nameplates get used.

LC200s are solid rear axle and IFS. Also, it's not accurate to say the 4runner is a bastardized version of the first gen. Even the first gen had a IFS midway through it's production cycle. The front suspension setup in the 4runner is purely a product of what is used for the pickup (Hilux, Tacoma) on which it is based. Although SFA might be better suited to certain things, there is no "formula" for a proper 4-runner.

 

[LandCruiser]

IFS is not worthy of any trail rig. Why? The CV axle/joint.

Jam the front wheel against an immovable object, turn the steering wheel to lock, give it a bit of power... then more, get frustrated and gun it...

SNAP.

I have seen this happen reliably on every trail run I've been on when someone wasn't aware of this simple fact.

Sure SFA gives you better articulation, but the durability problems with CV axles, boots, are more of a headache than I want to deal with. I also like how manufacturers throw the kitchen sink of computer aides to mimic how an SFA would behave. Also, I like how easy an SFA rig is to lift and how it maintains alignment even when beaten to hell.

Ultimately it boils down to that a properly maintained SFA rig will survive much more abuse for longer.

 

[crunchcity]

I think most here realize that lol.

 

[KCcarguy]

IFS is not worthy of any trail rig. Why? The CV axle/joint.

Jam the front wheel against an immovable object, turn the steering wheel to lock, give it a bit of power... then more, get frustrated and gun it...

SNAP.

I have seen this happen reliably on every trail run I've been on when someone wasn't aware of this simple fact.

Sure SFA gives you better articulation, but the durability problems with CV axles, boots, are more of a headache than I want to deal with. I also like how manufacturers throw the kitchen sink of computer aides to mimic how an SFA would behave. Also, I like how easy an SFA rig is to lift and how it maintains alignment even when beaten to hell.

Ultimately it boils down to that a properly maintained SFA rig will survive much more abuse for longer.

OK, good points. But not all LCs are meant to be rock crawlers.

 

[FlatlandTRD]

Actually, the Sequoia has been IRS since the 2008 model year when the second generation debuted.

Ha, guess that shows how much interest it holds for me! And how often the '08 and later are used off road. Bet the ride is comfy.

And how did this turn into a SFA vs IFS?! This tread just went down a few notches. BTW, guess I missed the original title, the 4rnrs have continued WELL past 1014!! ound:

 

[1engineer]

IFS is not worthy of any trail rig. Why? The CV axle/joint.

Jam the front wheel against an immovable object, turn the steering wheel to lock, give it a bit of power... then more, get frustrated and gun it...

SNAP.

I have seen this happen reliably on every trail run I've been on when someone wasn't aware of this simple fact.

Sure SFA gives you better articulation, but the durability problems with CV axles, boots, are more of a headache than I want to deal with. I also like how manufacturers throw the kitchen sink of computer aides to mimic how an SFA would behave. Also, I like how easy an SFA rig is to lift and how it maintains alignment even when beaten to hell.

Ultimately it boils down to that a properly maintained SFA rig will survive much more abuse for longer.

Again, you post these vague, general all encompassing statements. IFS not worthy of ANY trail rig? Seen it happen on EVERY trail run? C'mon. I have witnessed a lot of SFA failures too on the trail but you wouldn't know about that. SFA's have their place, and limitations - as do IFS. Both can be built reliably for any place you can imagine. Here is a picture of a vehicle with IFS that can go places and do things at speeds the SFA could never do.

 

[LandCruiser]

Again, you post these vague, general all encompassing statements. IFS not worthy of ANY trail rig? Seen it happen on EVERY trail run? C'mon. I have witnessed a lot of SFA failures too on the trail but you wouldn't know about that. SFA's have their place, and limitations - as do IFS. Both can be built reliably for any place you can imagine. Here is a picture of a vehicle with IFS that can go places and do things at speeds the SFA could never do.

If I had a quarter of a million bucks, I'd totally build one of those.

 

[KidVermicious]

IFS is not worthy of any trail rig. Why? The CV axle/joint.

Jam the front wheel against an immovable object, turn the steering wheel to lock, give it a bit of power... then more, get frustrated and gun it...

SNAP.

I have seen this happen reliably on every trail run I've been on when someone wasn't aware of this simple fact.

This is complete and utter horseshit. If you've seen somebody break a CV axle on every run you've been on (in Florida, no less, hah!), then you roll with some seriously shitty drivers. I've wheeled some form of IFS for the past eight years and never once broken a CV axle - it's very easy to keep your IFS intact when you actually know how to pick a line instead of just mashing the throttle and waiting for something to break. Guys are racing IFS in KOH, for hells sake, how often do you think that would happen if it was as weak as you're claiming?

I really hate this kind of bullcrap macho generalization. You don't know what you're talking about here, and the more you spout this kind of nonsense, the more you're going to convince beginning wheelers that they have to waste time and money on a solid axle swap, and that's doing them no favors.

With the money you'd invest in a solid axle swap, I'll buy a locker and some lower differential gears, and my and my IFS will kick you and your solid axle ass up and down the trail all day. And I'm not gonna break anything, either.

 

[1engineer]

This is complete and utter horseshit. If you've seen somebody break a CV axle on every run you've been on (in Florida, no less, hah!), then you roll with some seriously shitty drivers. I've wheeled some form of IFS for the past eight years and never once broken a CV axle - it's very easy to keep your IFS intact when you actually know how to pick a line instead of just mashing the throttle and waiting for something to break. Guys are racing IFS in KOH, for hells sake, how often do you think that would happen if it was as weak as you're claiming?

I really hate this kind of bullcrap macho generalization. You don't know what you're talking about here, and the more you spout this kind of nonsense, the more you're going to convince beginning wheelers that they have to waste time and money on a solid axle swap, and that's doing them no favors.

With the money you'd invest in a solid axle swap, I'll buy a locker and some lower differential gears, and my and my IFS will kick you and your solid axle ass up and down the trail all day. And I'm not gonna break anything, either.

(in Florida no less, hah!) That goes in my instant classic quote section! I very seldom post those little yellow circles doing stuff but I will make an exception here! :clap2::clap2:

 

[LandCruiser]

it's very easy to keep your IFS intact when you actually know how to pick a line instead of just mashing the throttle and waiting for something to break.

And how many people know how to do just that?

How many people know how to pick a line?

I think you're overestimating the skill set of most people on the trails out there.

I've seen lots of broken CV axles in Florida. Because we have lots of trails and lots of idiots.

You do realize that crazy bastards that hand build their rig on Pirate 4x4 are not the norm, but the exception (at least around here). Most people around here throw a cheap-o lift on their truck. 20 inch hard chrome rims, and wander off into the woods.

A tree stump will break a CV axle just as well as a rock.

And I'd never mod an IFS into a SFA (that's dumb), I'd just put up my FJ80 against an IFS 4Runner.

 

[TOY2G]

I CANNOT TAKE IT!!!!!!

I keep reading this thread and I keep holding my breath...... SO many people talking about crap they have no idea about. So people do not know the generation splits, other do not know where they hear Toyota said something, so have no clue what heritage is, still others do not understand suspension because of personal biased driving style.

So can we all just agree to think we know everything there is to know on earth and my dad could kick your dads butt.........?

Okay now that I got that off my chest. I have one thing to add that is actually related to the OP.

If you have been to the FJ summit you know that Toyota makes a big presence there. TOYOTA CORP. Two years ago in fact they flew in Akio Nishimara (Spelling?). If you dont know he is the one in Japan responsible for the FJ cruiser. He was signing vehicles and talking with anyone who would listen. this was 2010 and there was rumor that the FJ was going to be canned. Akio said quite simply, the Prado platform is so widely used, to stop production on the FJ would not be likely in the foreseeable future. He pointed out that the Prado platform is used in 5 vehicles (i do not know what 5 other than the FJ, T4R, and Prado..Perhaps a Lexus model or two) throughout the world and it is a staple in Toyota's lineup. He said they were currently working to expand one version of the vehicle or another to several new countries such as India.

Akio went on for quite awhile trying to dispatch the rumors in his broken English and a translator (sorta).

In conclusion, I, you and all of us have no idea what Toyota is going to do, and they have no reason to tell us. But some candid words from Akio make me feel like this platform is here to stay in some for or another for a long time to come.

If you were there with Akio at the Summit Dinner feel free to add anything you heard, as I only hung around for about 10 min (free food was being served) and he may have had more insight to offer on the topic.

Sorry I had to chime in and share......

And for the record...if you dont like the IFS Prado with all of its traction control devices. do a solid axle and in the process you will loose your ABS, and as a result your traction control. All three problems solved in one fail swoop