Non OEM Aftermarket Parts and Components

[1engineer]

Aftermarket (Non OEM) vehicle parts have been available to the end user probably since the first Model T rolled off the assembly line. I wanted to post my opinion on them and get everyone's thoughts as well.

Consumable and wear products such as oil, oil filters, brake pads, wiper blades, shocks and others are widely available. [MENTION=69860]chee[/MENTION]rs posted a nice thread yesterday on the different oil filters available. My question is "Why use aftermarket instead of OEM?"

It's been established that our OEM brake pads, under normal usage, will go at least 70K or so and perform great with no noise. Yet I still read threads on people wanting to use other brands.

I am just like the next guy and always looking for a good deal. That deal could be better performance for an increased cost or like performance for a lesser cost. In the case of shocks I understand why people change from OEM. They get a measurable or perceived performance enhancement, albeit at a higher cost. But oil filters? Oil? Brake pads? Wiper blades? I have probably done as much or more research than most of you on component performance.
Let's take oil filters for example:
What improvement can you hope to make by buying another non OEM brand? There are only two performance parameters for an oil filter and those are dirt holding capacity and particle size. Nowhere can I find specs on either of these from an aftermarket company. Oh, larger does not mean it holds more dirt. I know the OEM filter is spec'd out by the designers and it is pretty cheap to boot. Why use something else?

Brake pads:
Brake pads have three performance parameters: Stopping ability, how long will they last and perceived things like noise, dust etc. I know I can put on a set of pads that will stop a few feet shorter than the OEM pads. I know I can buy a set that are a bit cheaper than OEM. For the life of me though I can't find a set that stop quicker, make little noise or dust and cost around the same as the OEM pads.

I know oil is like a religion to some yet I doubt many of you know much about synthetics or additive packages. Wiper blades is another consumable. Can you really find a wiper that will wipe better or last longer than OEM?

I would really like to hear your thoughts and reasoning behind using aftermarket (non OEM) consumable components.
Brake pads

 

[20DYNAMITE07]

For me at least, I only go outside OEM offerings if I am:
1- trying to accomplish something that cannot be achieved using an OEM product/part... such as a lift, or in the case of my VW GTI, a stiffer rear sway bar.
2- if I can get OEM performance/quality from a part at a cheeper price (a rare occurance)

Otherwise, it is OEM for me. It just makes life so much easier and you have the assurance of compatibility, so why look anywhere else?

 

[DAGNABIT]

so who make slotted/drilled brakes for the 4runner?

 

[RedSled]

so who make slotted/drilled brakes for the 4runner?

Maybe Power Slot. :flock:

 

[Range]

so who make slotted/drilled brakes for the 4runner?

Power Stop does. I changed from OEM to Power Stop and noticed a substantial difference in stopping power with the bumper, sliders, larger tires etc... I don't think its just perceived because in order to stop I had to apply more pressure with OEM even brand new. With Power Stop the pressure applied was less.

 

[GHARP57]

What are your thought on Oil Greg?

 

[1engineer]

What are your thought on Oil Greg?

Any name brand synthetic in the proper viscosity is fine. There is no better or worse as long as you stick to the major suppliers. Why? Because these vehicles see a very light duty cycle as a rule. Even pulling a trailer a few times a year or going off road every now and then is light duty. Now, if you were pulling a heavier trailer every day or if you were racing off road then I would get specific and probably change a few things but for everyday use, any name brand is just fine.

 

[jrandom]

I just used a non OEM cabin air filter... and I am happy

I prefer OEM parts for repairs, vital maintenance (brakes, engine filters, u-joints, ect.)

Oil though, hmm, yep much like religion.

 

[Bootleg]

I switched from factory pads and rotors, at an increase in expense, because I wasn't happy with how the OEM parts preformed. I switched to Hawk Sector 27 kit with Hawk LTS pads and the results were pretty amazing. I felt the stopping distance of the stock pad compound sucked, frankly, and the stock rotors caused serious vibration with light or heavy application. I know a good part of the problems I have are based on the way I drive and I'm not changing that so I switched to a setup from a manufacturer that I've used and trusted for years racing sports cars. My braking distance is significantly shorter and the initial bit of the pad is 100% better than the stock pads. I've had to relearn all my braking points in my truck because it's so dramatically different. I'm happy paying a little more and having a slight increase in dust to know that when I hit the clamps I get a result that I can predict and that is consistent. So why do I buy aftermarket brakes? Because I'm happy paying more for a better product. As far as I'm concerned there isn't a more important part on my truck than the brakes.

Oil is oil as long as it's not cheap bulk and the same goes for filters. For the most part I agree that there's no reason to switch from OEM on wear items but I totally disagree on brakes. Riddle me this, Batman. Why do we all ditch the OEM tires if OEM parts are so good? Most of the time OEM is only sufficient, and most of the time sufficient is good enough.

 

[oljedi11950]

I would venture a guess that tires aren't technically oem ? Now their size is due the purported gas mileage & probably Toyota (I assume) gets a hell of a deal from that manufacturer ? But in reality [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] is secretly a Toy. dealer out of his garage & he has a surplus of parts he needs to move !!!!!! Yeeeeeehaaaaaaw

 

[Bevo]

I agree with jedi on tires. They aren't really OEM. I realize that Toyota does not make their OEM parts, but many are made to their specs. Tires are just off the shelf items.

 

[Ducmonsta]

The problem with "OEM" parts, in this case I'll use brake rotors, is that they aren't the same rotors that came off the assembly line. It is rare for a vehicle manufacture to use the EXACT same product at the dealership level. In fact, most of you will notice or already know that Brembo is usually the OEM rotor for our trucks. This means Brembo has the contract with Toyota to provide the factory rotors during production. Brembo is also a manufacturer of aftermarket components. Not the performance side of things, but "OE" replacement. Because of this contract, Brembo has to change something slightly to the manufacturing of these "OE" rotors so as to not compete with the "factory" rotors. Whether that means slightly thinner spec, different hub material, or even just a different number of vents in the rotor.

When you go to the parts counter at a Toyota dealership, what you are most likely purchasing is the aftermarket "OE" Brembo rotor. It will be the exact same rotor that you can most likely purchase from a outside Brembo dealer only without the Toyota packaging and part number.

On another level, if you are having the brakes done at a local Toyota dealer, they are most likely using lower grade aftermarket brake components sourced from a local distributor such as NAPA or Carquest because of the increased margins available when using such products.

So, bottom line, if Toyota is going to use "OEM" aftermarket, why shouldn't we just bypass the markup to provide the Toyota part number and box? Granted, you have to do a lot more research as to what kind of product went into your truck in the first place.

 

[GHARP57]

Any name brand synthetic in the proper viscosity is fine. There is no better or worse as long as you stick to the major suppliers. Why? Because these vehicles see a very light duty cycle as a rule. Even pulling a trailer a few times a year or going off road every now and then is light duty. Now, if you were pulling a heavier trailer every day or if you were racing off road then I would get specific and probably change a few things but for everyday use, any name brand is just fine.

I have used fishers 5w-30 and castrol gtx highmileage before and I have not noticed a difference except in my pocket. haha!

I now use "toyota oil" out of the drums which is mobil and I am pretty happy with that! cheap too!

 

[1engineer]

Riddle me this, Batman. Why do we all ditch the OEM tires if OEM parts are so good? Most of the time OEM is only sufficient, and most of the time sufficient is good enough.

I'll give you the correct answer but first I have to ask you a question:

Can you name me one tire that is better than the OEM tire?

Now remember, the tire has to meet these specs:

1. Must be inexpensive and not increase the cost of the vehicle
2. Must have a low rolling resistance tread pattern for efficiency
3. Must have a compound that is also based on efficiency
4. Tread pattern must be designed to be used in the majority of the North American market

Now remember, at any given moment in North America, the majority of roads will be dry! Only 5% of the customers will take this vehicle off road! It only snows in certain areas of North America and that area is smaller than areas that traditionally do not see snowfall! The average temperature for North America in 2013 was around 53 degrees F!

So, given the parameters above, please give me a "better" tire that will fit those parameters.

Sure, there are hundreds of tires that will outperform the OEM provided tire in specific conditions and locations but is there a better tire for general use by all end users in all locations?

For my specific use the optimal tire would be a good P rated AT tire.

 

[Ron4RNevada]

The problem with "OEM" parts, in this case I'll use brake rotors, is that they aren't the same rotors that came off the assembly line. It is rare for a vehicle manufacture to use the EXACT same product at the dealership level. In fact, most of you will notice or already know that Brembo is usually the OEM rotor for our trucks. This means Brembo has the contract with Toyota to provide the factory rotors during production. Brembo is also a manufacturer of aftermarket components. Not the performance side of things, but "OE" replacement. Because of this contract, Brembo has to change something slightly to the manufacturing of these "OE" rotors so as to not compete with the "factory" rotors. Whether that means slightly thinner spec, different hub material, or even just a different number of vents in the rotor.

When you go to the parts counter at a Toyota dealership, what you are most likely purchasing is the aftermarket "OE" Brembo rotor. It will be the exact same rotor that you can most likely purchase from a outside Brembo dealer only without the Toyota packaging and part number.

On another level, if you are having the brakes done at a local Toyota dealer, they are most likely using lower grade aftermarket brake components sourced from a local distributor such as NAPA or Carquest because of the increased margins available when using such products.

So, bottom line, if Toyota is going to use "OEM" aftermarket, why shouldn't we just bypass the markup to provide the Toyota part number and box? Granted, you have to do a lot more research as to what kind of product went into your truck in the first place.

Interesting info - - -

 

[Hellamatic]

As far as consumables go, you generally can't beat OEM. They simply just make the parts in such mass quantities that they're rarely the more expensive option, and obviously you should NEVER have any sort of warranty issue using OEM parts - not that you should anyway, but some dealerships can be dicks about it and try and pull a fast one sometimes.

On the other hand, there are certain cases where OEM tends to just simply suck balls. For instance, I used to have a 2004 2500 Ram Cummins. 5" lift, 37" rubber, and a mild tune. That truck religiously went through rear u-joints every 30-35,000km or so. An OEM Mopar u-joint was about $125, and was a 'maintenance free' unit without grease zerks. After buying 2 OEM u-joints, I finally switched to a Moog u-joint, which was $30 and had a grease zerk. I greased it on a regular basis, and it had 60,000km with no issues by the time I sold the truck.

 

[1engineer]

The problem with "OEM" parts, in this case I'll use brake rotors, is that they aren't the same rotors that came off the assembly line. It is rare for a vehicle manufacture to use the EXACT same product at the dealership level. In fact, most of you will notice or already know that Brembo is usually the OEM rotor for our trucks. This means Brembo has the contract with Toyota to provide the factory rotors during production. Brembo is also a manufacturer of aftermarket components. Not the performance side of things, but "OE" replacement. Because of this contract, Brembo has to change something slightly to the manufacturing of these "OE" rotors so as to not compete with the "factory" rotors. Whether that means slightly thinner spec, different hub material, or even just a different number of vents in the rotor.

When you go to the parts counter at a Toyota dealership, what you are most likely purchasing is the aftermarket "OE" Brembo rotor. It will be the exact same rotor that you can most likely purchase from a outside Brembo dealer only without the Toyota packaging and part number.

On another level, if you are having the brakes done at a local Toyota dealer, they are most likely using lower grade aftermarket brake components sourced from a local distributor such as NAPA or Carquest because of the increased margins available when using such products.

So, bottom line, if Toyota is going to use "OEM" aftermarket, why shouldn't we just bypass the markup to provide the Toyota part number and box? Granted, you have to do a lot more research as to what kind of product went into your truck in the first place.

What you say is true but there are so many levels...

For example Brembo could just meet Toyota specs and private label for Toyota. This would allow both Toyota and Brembo to sell the exact same component under different names only. We do that all the time.

In some cases Toyota might want a "proprietary" design from Brembo and this would mean extra cost up front but only Toyota could then sell that exact same component. Brembo would then have to make a change to sell their product. We do that also.

Bottom line is how do you know unless you are in the know? You don't. I don't. Only a few do.

I understand some thinking you are paying for the Toyota "box" it comes in but to me you are also paying for a component built to Toyota specs. Is the price really that much different on consumables?

 

[perkdog258]

WOW not surprised at the responses so far here. [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION] you make some great points. Especially when it comes to oil. Most people do not really understand all that goes in to oil let alone grease. I have yet to find many people who actually understand how grease works and the real reason for the temperature ratings.

Personally I have always found that the need to use non-OEM parts and "upgrading" your vehicle is due to great marketing. In some cases...yes...you would benefit from an upgrade to wear parts. Honestly though for the money and the performance gain I have never really seen the difference. Now I would like to point out the is just my opinion. I know others will slam me and disagree. In my opinion I have kept my 4runner stock. I do live in an area where there is heavy snow 7 months out of the year, and the state laws really prohibit offroading. So basically I love the look of most the 4runners on this site. I love the work you guys do. I am even envious of the fact that you can go on trails and take your vehicle places I only dream of. The reality for me and I am sure easily 50% of the 4runner owners out there is that OEM is just fine for us.

I really believe it is the minority that need the performance upgrades. the rest of us feel we need it but honestly don't. Do I think it is a problem getting non-OEM parts or doing these performance upgrades when you do not need them....no not really. It is up to you really. If you want to drop off some winning numbers to the NYS Lotto or a brown truck full of offroad parts for free I would gladly put them on my Limited! BUTTTT since I sure non of that will ever happen I will stick with OEM for personal reasons.


Let that bashing continue.... :keyboard:

 

[Bootleg]

I'll give you the correct answer but first I have to ask you a question:

Can you name me one tire that is better than the OEM tire?

Now remember, the tire has to meet these specs:

1. Must be inexpensive and not increase the cost of the vehicle
2. Must have a low rolling resistance tread pattern for efficiency
3. Must have a compound that is also based on efficiency
4. Tread pattern must be designed to be used in the majority of the North American market

Now remember, at any given moment in North America, the majority of roads will be dry! Only 5% of the customers will take this vehicle off road! It only snows in certain areas of North America and that area is smaller than areas that traditionally do not see snowfall! The average temperature for North America in 2013 was around 53 degrees F!

So, given the parameters above, please give me a "better" tire that will fit those parameters.

Sure, there are hundreds of tires that will outperform the OEM provided tire in specific conditions and locations but is there a better tire for general use by all end users in all locations?

For my specific use the optimal tire would be a good P rated AT tire.

You're 100% right and you're getting to the point I was making concerning my choice for brakes. "Better" all depends on how you're going to use the parts. I was more playing the devils advocate with the comment about the tires. I know they're fine for mall crawling and picking kids up from soccer. Many of us enjoy using our trucks to go places the majority of the populous don't care to go. Just like I enjoy braking harder and deeper into corners than most people because of how I learned to drive while racing. No, it's not the intended use but that's how I roll. :becky:

I will also say that slowing the truck at highway speeds when I would run into sudden traffic made me feel very unsafe. I feel like I have pretty good reaction time and I never felt like the truck got slowed fast enough on stock brakes. No longer an issue.

 

[STLDAVE]

Any name brand synthetic in the proper viscosity is fine. There is no better or worse as long as you stick to the major suppliers. Why? Because these vehicles see a very light duty cycle as a rule. Even pulling a trailer a few times a year or going off road every now and then is light duty. Now, if you were pulling a heavier trailer every day or if you were racing off road then I would get specific and probably change a few things but for everyday use, any name brand is just fine.

Its OEM oil for me. I buy a case of the Toyota full synthetic at the local Toyota dealer and get a 10% discount. That puts the price at or below what I can get a name brand full synthetic at the local parts store. Sometimes the parts stores have theirs on sale, but it never seems to be when I need it.