Official picture of 2010 4runner!

[sandcrawler]

First of all, the new 4Runner is nowhere near the size of a Sequoia. It's only slightly larger than the current 4Runner.

^^ hear, hear!
the specs released thus far = OAH +1.2", OAW +0.6", OAL +1.6" ... with +0.6" ground clearance on the 4WD. (+0.9" 2WD.) those aren't Sequoia proportions by any stretch. bigger than a 4G, sure -- but how much bigger than the 3G was the 4G? considerably so!

as an owner of an '06 V8, i too understand the theatrics over what seems to be the inescapable departure of the V8... but there are gobs of happy V6 4G owners; the improved V6 on the 5G will likely satisfy the majority of buyers... and in this economy/market, i personally can't blame toyota for making that decision. for my part, i'm hopeful that when we (finally!) get the chance to drive the 2010 all this debate will be mostly moot.

 

[p nut]

I'm really surprised by how much Toyota is cutting corners on this.

It doesn't have a locking gas door? wow.
and those locking gas caps don't do squat, I had one on my old car and I lost the key for it. So just took a flat screwdriver shoved it in the keyhole and turned it until it broke the lock and opened. Took all of 5 seconds to do.

What makes you think a locking gas door will be any harder to break into?

Mask Antenna?
I can't tell is it even a power antenna?

Back when I owned a 3rd gen, it had the power ant. one day right after buying it we took it on some trails. We had just went onto the trail and had the radio on, we forgot to turn it off right away. Went under a low branch and it bent the antenna and I had to replace the whole thing.

I wish they'd do away with the whole power antenna. Both of my 4Runners had the infamous stripped plastic gears. I like the good old whip antenna on my Tacoma much much better.

The more I learn about the 5th gen, the more I dislike it. I was hoping that once my house is paid off next year, maybe buying a new 4Runner. I won't be now, with no V8 and all the other things missing it just doesn't make any sense to trade mine in.

Hey, why not give it a chance? It's not even out yet!!!

On the 4CYL topic, I think it's a good move by Toyota. I do wish it still offered the V8, but I like that they've offered the I4 once again. I'm sure they've gone lengths to make it more efficient than the old I4 (hopefully, anyway). The old 2.7's were getting around 24-26MPG, IIRC.

 

[Thai]

I was trying to think of a better way to explain engine efficiency, when it occurred to me to explain it like this:

Think of two identical vehicles. One with a 400 HP V8 engine. The other vehicle is identical in every way, except that it has a 225 HP V6 engine. Now, bring them both out on the highway and drive them clear across Kansas at 65 MPH. How much HP do you think it takes to maintain 65 MPH for these vehicles (assuming they are average vehicles)? Maybe 50 HP? 60 HP? Okay, now knowing that both the V6 and V8 engines are more than capable of providing the HP necessary to propel these vehicles down the road, which one is working more efficiently? Which one will return greater fuel economy.

The answer in both cases is the vehicle with the V6 engine. Even if the V6 engine is working harder and at a higher RPM than the V8, you should be able to see that it is using a greater percentage of it's available HP and will therefore operate more efficiently. This is an extremely simplified way of explaining it, but it's the best I could think of at the moment.

Exception to conventional wisdom:

"A larger and more powerful 1.8-liter Atkinson-cycle, four-cylinder engine will produce 98 horsepower at 5,200 rpm in the new Prius. Together with its electric motor the hybrid system in the new Prius will generate a combined net horsepower of 134, an improvement of 24 horsepower over the previous generation.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, the larger engine actually helps improve highway mileage. By making more torque, the new engine can run at lower average rpm on the highway. When operating at lower rpm, the new engine uses less fuel. Mileage is especially improved in cold-start conditions and at higher speeds."

 

[p nut]

Exception to conventional wisdom:

"A larger and more powerful 1.8-liter Atkinson-cycle, four-cylinder engine will produce 98 horsepower at 5,200 rpm in the new Prius. Together with its electric motor the hybrid system in the new Prius will generate a combined net horsepower of 134, an improvement of 24 horsepower over the previous generation.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, the larger engine actually helps improve highway mileage. By making more torque, the new engine can run at lower average rpm on the highway. When operating at lower rpm, the new engine uses less fuel. Mileage is especially improved in cold-start conditions and at higher speeds."

There are always exceptions to everything. Even in the quote from above, lower RPM does not always mean improved MPG. Speed, torque curve of the engine, gearing, etc. all play a roll.

As an example, my old Acura was upgraded to 4.9 final drive. Surprisingly, at 70-75MPH average, the MPG went from 29 to 31MPG. Although the engine was at a HIGHER RPM range than before, it was easier for the car to "push" through the air, which = better MPG.

And, of course, my current Civic with a VTEC-E engine commands ~50MPG on the freeway. The 1.8 and 2.2L Honda engines cannot hold a candle to this.

 

[Spencer]

I'm not saying the v8 gets better gas mileage tha v6 I'm just saying the difference between a weak 4cyl and a strong v6 in gas mileage is not worth it.. You won't save enough gas to make up for it's lack of power. And the resale will most likely hurt worse than the 6.

Let's say gas is 3$ a gal and you drive 80 miles a day. If there was a 5mpg difference you wold save 17$ a week.. That's if you see the 5mpg difference (doubt it, more like 1-2) and you drive 560 miles a week. Oh and if you can afford a brand new car why worry about an extra (possible not likely) few dollars a week. And if you can't afford the extra you probably aren't driving to a job 40 miles away because you can probably make the same pay somewhere closer and again you shouldn't be looking for a new car anyways.

In my 1990 Nissan 4cyl truck I got 17-21 mpg
in my gfs 1.8t beetle 18-27
in my Nissan frontier 4.0 16-22.5
in my 4runner 3.4 17-21.5...
Friends 2007 z71 5.3 16-22mpg...

Usually bigger engines also have different gearing and/or more gears which help save gas mileage when cruising 70-75mph

these trucks are getting biger and bigger. It's going to be funny to see a 2.7 pushing it. Not to metion the 4runners with the 4cyl in the past are much less desireable than the v6s..

 

[ToyTech99]

Exception to conventional wisdom:

"A larger and more powerful 1.8-liter Atkinson-cycle, four-cylinder engine will produce 98 horsepower at 5,200 rpm in the new Prius. Together with its electric motor the hybrid system in the new Prius will generate a combined net horsepower of 134, an improvement of 24 horsepower over the previous generation.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, the larger engine actually helps improve highway mileage. By making more torque, the new engine can run at lower average rpm on the highway. When operating at lower rpm, the new engine uses less fuel. Mileage is especially improved in cold-start conditions and at higher speeds."

Thanks Thai, but I was trying to keep it as simple as possible to aid in understanding the theory. Throwing a Prius into the mix just messes up my simple explanation!

But anyway, a lot of people seem to be upset about the change to 4 and 6 cylinder engines and the lack of a V8. To those people I say this: Unless you use your 4Runner as a heavy tow vehicle the majority of the time, you probably won't miss that V8 more than you THINK you'll miss it. And I'd bet that people who use their 4Runners to tow don't do so the majority of the time anyway. If they did, they would probably choose another vehicle for towing purposes entirely.

Just my opinion.

 

[ToyTech99]

I'm not saying the v8 gets better gas mileage tha v6 I'm just saying the difference between a weak 4cyl and a strong v6 in gas mileage is not worth it.. You won't save enough gas to make up for it's lack of power. And the resale will most likely hurt worse than the 6.

Let's say gas is 3$ a gal and you drive 80 miles a day. If there was a 5mpg difference you wold save 17$ a week.. That's if you see the 5mpg difference (doubt it, more like 1-2) and you drive 560 miles a week. Oh and if you can afford a brand new car why worry about an extra (possible not likely) few dollars a week. And if you can't afford the extra you probably aren't driving to a job 40 miles away because you can probably make the same pay somewhere closer and again you shouldn't be looking for a new car anyways.

In my 1990 Nissan 4cyl truck I got 17-21 mpg
in my gfs 1.8t beetle 18-27
in my Nissan frontier 4.0 16-22.5
in my 4runner 3.4 17-21.5...
Friends 2007 z71 5.3 16-22mpg...

Usually bigger engines also have different gearing and/or more gears which help save gas mileage when cruising 70-75mph

these trucks are getting biger and bigger. It's going to be funny to see a 2.7 pushing it. Not to metion the 4runners with the 4cyl in the past are much less desireable than the v6s..

Whatever. I was just pointing out the myth that bigger engines are more efficient, when actually the opposite is true. There seems to be no convincing you whether in principal, theory, or logic. Maybe you should go grab a V8 4Runner before they are all gone!

 

[p nut]

I'm not saying the v8 gets better gas mileage tha v6 I'm just saying the difference between a weak 4cyl and a strong v6 in gas mileage is not worth it.. You won't save enough gas to make up for it's lack of power. And the resale will most likely hurt worse than the 6.

Let's say gas is 3$ a gal and you drive 80 miles a day. If there was a 5mpg difference you wold save 17$ a week.. That's if you see the 5mpg difference (doubt it, more like 1-2) and you drive 560 miles a week. Oh and if you can afford a brand new car why worry about an extra (possible not likely) few dollars a week. And if you can't afford the extra you probably aren't driving to a job 40 miles away because you can probably make the same pay somewhere closer and again you shouldn't be looking for a new car anyways.

In my 1990 Nissan 4cyl truck I got 17-21 mpg
in my gfs 1.8t beetle 18-27
in my Nissan frontier 4.0 16-22.5
in my 4runner 3.4 17-21.5...
Friends 2007 z71 5.3 16-22mpg...

Usually bigger engines also have different gearing and/or more gears which help save gas mileage when cruising 70-75mph

these trucks are getting biger and bigger. It's going to be funny to see a 2.7 pushing it. Not to metion the 4runners with the 4cyl in the past are much less desireable than the v6s..

What's worth it to you and what it's worth to others could be totally different. Even at the scant 4mpg difference in the old 3rd Gen's, plenty went for ithe 4CYL, because there WAS a difference in MPG. Towing, power, etc. didn't matter to them. Bottom line was, it got better gas mileage. Same thing will happen with the new 5th Gen's.

 

[4Runner8]

is the 5th gen going to have a V8 or just V6 and V4? any confirmation?

 

[Thai]

Thanks Thai, but I was trying to keep it as simple as possible to aid in understanding the theory. Throwing a Prius into the mix just messes up my simple explanation!

Sorry...just messing with this discussion....

 

[ToyTech99]

is the 5th gen going to have a V8 or just V6 and V4? any confirmation?

No V8 for now, but that doesn't mean Toyota will not decide to bring it back in a year or two. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened somewhere down the road. I'm not convinced there's a big demand for it though when you consider overall sales.

The same thing happened with the Pathfinder. They offered a V8 and the sales for V8 Pathfinders were not good at all. I believe Nissan is killing their V8 option as well.

 

[Thai]

is the 5th gen going to have a V8 or just V6 and V4? any confirmation?

BTW, don't ever say "V4"...car enthusiasts will laugh at you. Instead, say "I4". V4 does not exist in a modern car. All 4-cylinders nowadays are IN-LINE 4 configuration.

 

[4Runner8]

thats okay just wandering if the v6 can improve to if im not mistaken 255 HP then i want to know what the V8 would improve to??

 

[imwjl]

I was trying to think of a better way to explain engine efficiency, when it occurred to me to explain it like this:

Think of two identical vehicles. One with a 400 HP V8 engine. The other vehicle is identical in every way, except that it has a 225 HP V6 engine. Now, bring them both out on the highway and drive them clear across Kansas at 65 MPH. How much HP do you think it takes to maintain 65 MPH for these vehicles (assuming they are average vehicles)? Maybe 50 HP? 60 HP? Okay, now knowing that both the V6 and V8 engines are more than capable of providing the HP necessary to propel these vehicles down the road, which one is working more efficiently? Which one will return greater fuel economy.

The answer in both cases is the vehicle with the V6 engine. Even if the V6 engine is working harder and at a higher RPM than the V8, you should be able to see that it is using a greater percentage of it's available HP and will therefore operate more efficiently. This is an extremely simplified way of explaining it, but it's the best I could think of at the moment.

I'm with you and my not scientific evidence or support is fleet management in a former life and I currently have a customer in the delivery and taxi business where I'm putting in a new management and monitoring system. There may be exceptions but if you have comparable chassis the smaller engines are more efficient doing similar or appropriate work. That does not mean that smaller engine is best for every job.

Keeping it to topic: I went from a pickup to my 99 4Runner and the 2010 is in my sights. I have been happy with not having the V8 and less efficient powerplants the competitors had and I'm hoping the next generation is relatively frugal for its breed too.

I've done alright towing without an overly powerful vehicle but I used to drive semi and operate heavy equipment so it seems like I exercise caution and care many do not. I also rent heavier vehicles when needed where my current 4Runner was a move from pickup to SUV.

I hope the next generation improves the current 16/20 (if I recall) EPA rating. It may disappear from my sights if not.

 

[az4runner02]

Looks like our 3rd generation's value will hold true. Let see, I just got my 2000 4x4 with 52,000 miles for $9900. The 5th generation with the same features will most likely hit the 40K mark. I'll pass and in no time, I will be pulling one of these suckers out of the mud.


:withstupid:

 

[Thai]

Looks like our 3rd generation's value will hold true. Let see, I just got my 2000 4x4 with 52,000 miles for $9900. The 5th generation with the same features will most likely hit the 40K mark. I'll pass and in no time, I will be pulling one of these suckers out of the mud.


:withstupid:

Huh??!! How are you even comparing the two? :roadkill: I know that you like your 3rd gen, but are you smoking something illegal???

 

[JAC]

huh??!! How are you even comparing the two? :roadkill: I know that you like your 3rd gen, but are you smoking something illegal???

lmao

 

[imwjl]

BTW, don't ever say "V4"...car enthusiasts will laugh at you. Instead, say "I4". V4 does not exist in a modern car. All 4-cylinders nowadays are IN-LINE 4 configuration.

Does Subaru count?? I am sure they have opposing cylinders on their cars in US as do piston aircraft engines.

 

[ToyTech99]

Does Subaru count?? I am sure they have opposing cylinders on their cars in US as do piston aircraft engines.

That's true, but it's still not a V-configuration. I believe Subaru uses flat (or horizontally opposed) 4 cylinder engines only. As far as I know, a V4 engine has never existed, at least not in a production vehicle.

 

[az4runner02]

Huh??!! How are you even comparing the two? I know that you like your 3rd gen, but are you smoking something illegal???

My point is there is nothing more that this new truck can do that my 3rd generation can't. So what is the point of forking out an extra $30,000? And besides, don't you have a "G" forum you can go lurk around and talk about how you go off-roading with your cup of tea? I mean really, last time I checked this was a 4runner forum.