Original tranny fluid at 205k miles: would you change it?

I would recommend it. To each their own but I had an '05 that had 193k miles on it and had never done any transmission servicing at all. I did a drain and fill myself and never had an issue with it. It's just a good peace of mind that you're getting new fluid in there. However, do NOT do a flush...ONLY a drain and fill. Doing a flush at that mileage is where people start to see issues. I would make it known to the dealership you're only looking for a drain and fill and not a flush.

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I have 220k on my 2008 Sport Edition. I have never experienced a problem with drive train until lately. Not sure if it is a transmission, drive shaft or transfer case issue. Has anyone experienced the following

My 4wd binded up in LO and I could not even drive it. I parked and waited about 10 mins and the 4wd finally released. Since then I have noticed a vibration almost like driving over a washboard. It only happens at low acceleration and low rpms and only lasts about 5 seconds. Currently it shifts in and out of 2H, 4H, 4L and locks the differential with ease. I am starting to get worried because this issue is getting worse. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
First thing I would suggest is lubing all of the drive shaft zerks, front and rear, unless you know that's been done recently.

Also, it would help knowing if your truck is a V6 or V8, and the specific conditions under which the vibration occurs (2wd/4wd, center diff unlocked/locked, dry pavement vs gravel, actual speed, accelerating vs coasting, etc?)
 
I would recommend it. To each their own but I had an '05 that had 193k miles on it and had never done any transmission servicing at all. I did a drain and fill myself and never had an issue with it. It's just a good peace of mind that you're getting new fluid in there. However, do NOT do a flush...ONLY a drain and fill. Doing a flush at that mileage is where people start to see issues. I would make it known to the dealership you're only looking for a drain and fill and not a flush.

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i assume you mean a full exchange vs. a forced flush. if just a pan exchange i would do that myself.
 
According to a 4th Gen 4Runner Scheduled Maintenance Guide, the transmission fluid should be first inspected at 30,000 miles, then again at 60,000 miles.

If you use your 4Runner for towing, under the Special Operating Conditions it is recommended to replace the transmission fluid at 60,000 miles.

Next inspection of the transmission fluid is at 90,000 miles, then again at 120,000 miles. Transmission fluid replacement (under SOC) is recommended at 120,000 miles.

Here is a link to a video explaining when you should change your transmission fluid, answering whether or not changing your transmission fluid could damage your transmission, and whether or not to change or flush the transmission fluid.

YouTube

And this link to a video outlining the steps to actually change (not flush) the transmission fluid.

YouTube

Does that document have instructions on how to inspect the fluid in a sealed system?
 
The Scheduled Maintenance Guide is a supplement to the Owner's Manual, and should be in your glovebox. I'm pretty sure that it does not give specifics as to how to check the transmission fluid.

Here are some threads:

Just how does one check the transmission fluid?

T4R Transmission Fluid Servicing (sealed & non-sealed)

Thanks, I know the procedure to check the fluid level but “inspect” implies more of a check on the fluid’s condition. My question was more ironic than serious regarding Toyota suggesting that fluid in a sealed system can be inspected.
 
Thanks, I know the procedure to check the fluid level but “inspect” implies more of a check on the fluid’s condition. My question was more ironic than serious regarding Toyota suggesting that fluid in a sealed system can be inspected.

It wouldn't be very hard to inspect the fluid, just loosen the drain plug a bit until some of the fluid seeps out, catch a little bit in a drain pan and check it.
 
My wife took her Toyota Venza in to Jiffy Lube for an oil change at 60k miles. They told her the trans oil needed to be flushed and changed. It also has a sealed trans. She said OK.

A couple of weeks later she told me what they had done. I told her they ripped her off and it shouldn't ever have been changed. I was so angry at them. I went over there and asked if they had at least used Toyota recommended trans fluid and they said they had. It really pissed me off, but there wasn't much I could do since she approved it. I did make it clear that if there was a trans problem we would be suing them. Since my wife is a trial attorney she would just sue them herself.

She told me to take care of the maintenance scheduling of the vehicle myself from now one since she doesn't know anything about it. Since our schedules are so confined it isn't usually realistic to change things myself, but I provide her the Toyota filter and schedule the maintenance to be done by someone I know and trust who doesn't charge a lot either. I really do think Toyota sealed these trans in order to prevent people from getting crap put into their trans by scammers, but unfortunately, they still scam.
 
Calling the Toyota transmission "sealed" is a bit of an overstatement. It's no more "sealed" than your differential or your transfer case. It has a drain plug, a fill plug, a check plug, and a breather to equalize pressure to keep from blowing out the seals. It just doesn't have a dipstick or a convenient way to fill it from the top through a funnel. Basically Toyota reconfigured it so that servicing it is much like servicing your diff or tcase, although because of the torque converter it's harder to drain out all the fluid. But that applies to the older auto transmissions with dipsticks as well.
 
Calling the Toyota transmission "sealed" is a bit of an overstatement. It's no more "sealed" than your differential or your transfer case. It has a drain plug, a fill plug, a check plug, and a breather to equalize pressure to keep from blowing out the seals. It just doesn't have a dipstick or a convenient way to fill it from the top through a funnel. Basically Toyota reconfigured it so that servicing it is much like servicing your diff or tcase, although because of the torque converter it's harder to drain out all the fluid. But that applies to the older auto transmissions with dipsticks as well.

I agree that it is in some ways symbolic, but the pr on it has developed into a different narrative. Certainly a trans has nearly always been less maintenance and monitoring, and more sealed than an engine itself, but it still requires changing at some point.

I think people on forums like this have a skewed way of looking at maintenance, because they are generally far more atuned to it than most people. I think if you did a poll of 4th gen 4Runners, or many other vehicles, who have had their vehicles for several years and are approaching high miles, very few would have had the gear oil changed in their diffs or would not know if it had been done by a mechanic along the way. My thought is few think about it much and either follow the recs of a mechanic, or simply never address the maintenance at all.

Engine oil and trans oil is pretty much all that has ever been asked of me when taking it to a shop. The first thing I did when I bought my 4Runner was to change out the drive line gear oils, because I didn't know if it had ever been done. I had records on the engine oil changes.
 
Let’s call the following items “gearboxes” in the 4th gen Toyota 4Runner:
- automatic transmission
- transfer case
- rear axle, colloquially referred to as “diff”
- front axle, also affectionately referred to as “diff”

Each of these gearboxes have drain plugs and fill plugs. Each have sliding and rolling elements, otherwise known as gears and bearings, bathed in liquid lubricant. These items transmit power, and by their nature wear over time. They do not last forever. A notion arises that these gearboxes are candidates for consideration of being the limiting factors in terms of maximum useable mileage of a vehicle. In other words, theconstraint to very high mileage.

Lubricant in gearboxes needs to replaced at some time. The confusion starts to enter the picture when the car company does not clearly address this. Automotive gearboxes are some of the longest lived factory original components on a vehicle, compared to, say, windshield wipers.

There is a question of whether it is in the interest of the car company, for them to provide drivetrain maintenance instructions so that vehicles last 300,000 miles and longer. It can be argued that it is not in the car companies’ interest for vehicles to stay on the road that long, rather it can be argued it is preferred by the car companies to sell new vehicles after, say, 125,000 miles or less. Hence the lack of clear cut maintenance documentation from car companies, and obfuscating statements by dealers and repair shops with language such as “sealed for life”.
 
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Calling the Toyota transmission "sealed" is a bit of an overstatement. It's no more "sealed" than your differential or your transfer case. It has a drain plug, a fill plug, a check plug, and a breather to equalize pressure to keep from blowing out the seals. It just doesn't have a dipstick or a convenient way to fill it from the top through a funnel. Basically Toyota reconfigured it so that servicing it is much like servicing your diff or tcase, although because of the torque converter it's harder to drain out all the fluid. But that applies to the older auto transmissions with dipsticks as well.


That’s a fair point. If anyone has a better term for a no-dipstick design, fire away.

Interestingly, that oracle of knowledge called the owner’s manual doesn’t say not to change the fluid:

==
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
Fluid capacity (drain and refill), L (qt., Imp. qt.):
Up to 3.0 (3.2, 2.6)

Fluid type:
Toyota Genuine ATF WS

Change automatic transmission fluid only as necessary.

Generally, it is necessary to change automatic transmission fluid only if your vehicle is driven under one of the Special Operating Conditions listed in your “Scheduled Maintenance Guide” or “Owner’s Manual Supplement”.
When changing the automatic transmission fluid, use only “Toyota Genuine ATF WS” (ATF JWS3324 or NWS9638) to aid in assuring optimum transmission performance.

Notice: Using automatic transmission fluid other than “Toyota Genuine ATF WS” may cause deterioration in shift quality, locking up of your transmission accompanied by vibration, and ultimate- ly damage the automatic transmission of your vehicle.

Please contact your Toyota dealer for further details.
==
 
I have 220k on my 2008 Sport Edition. I have never experienced a problem with drive train until lately. Not sure if it is a transmission, drive shaft or transfer case issue. Has anyone experienced the following

My 4wd binded up in LO and I could not even drive it. I parked and waited about 10 mins and the 4wd finally released. Since then I have noticed a vibration almost like driving over a washboard. It only happens at low acceleration and low rpms and only lasts about 5 seconds. Currently it shifts in and out of 2H, 4H, 4L and locks the differential with ease. I am starting to get worried because this issue is getting worse. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

When was the last time you had the transfer case and diff's fluid changed?
If you wheel a lot and haven't changed them in over 30k miles, id say change the fluid.
 
One family 2007 SR5 4wd V6 4Runner. Went through a period of the infamous shudder after 150k miles. Very oddly, did its first synthetic engine oil change around 200k miles, and the shudder has not returned once.

I know Toyota WS is a "lifetime" fluid. And I know about the shudder fix additive.

The dealer will exchange the full fluid for about $200+ (wouldn't bother doing this job myself since the fluid value is close to $100). Wondering if others have changed out the original after 200k, and what the results were.

Changed the Transmission fluid on my 03, 4 speed at 130k and 230k miles at the dealership. I'm at 236K now. Never had any issues with my transmission and I never towed anything.

You should have the transmission fluid changed at the Dealer and just confirm if its a flush or drain/refill and confirm the quarts needed for the work. I would guess they would do a flush, since its quick and easy.

FYI... My co-worker had a 2008 RAVE 4 and he never changed the transmission fluid on it and the tyranny died on him at 250k miles on the OD. It was his commuter vehicle and he also thought the transmission fluid was "Lifetime".
 
just got the tranny fluid exchange done at toyota. $230 (minus $30 coupon).

worst part was waiting over 2 hours. why i try to do my own work at home.

drive back was smooth. haven't added any shudder juice yet.
 
2005, 4.0, 298k.

Just did my in drain and fill and then I exchanged all the fluid using the cooler line up front, but I filled at the drain plug with a funnel and a long clear tube, looking down on the passenger side along the exhaust into the fill plug, plastic spring clipped the tube to the exhaust shied near the fill hole to secure it.

Fitting at top of radiator for transmission cooler is 3/8. Here was what I used, probably in plumbing supply at most retailers that sell plumbing supplies(Menard's here);

Here's my connection, black rubber tube going into the radiator will be the fluid that is pumped from the transmission;
3/8 inner diameter clear tubing, 3 feet
3/8 to 3/8 connector
Drain jug with 2qt and 4 qt levels marked
plastic spring clip (tube at jug)

Funnel set-up to fill from above (I've never used a pump);
Flo tool flex funnel(Walmart) + Less that 3 feet of 1/2 inch inner diameter clear tubing(Menard's)
plastic spring clip (tube by fill hole)
Fill plug is 24mm, (if possible use breaker bar to loosen, or long wrench(knuckle buster...))

3 gallons Valvoline Maxlife (bought 4, one for stock being I didn't use it)

My method, learned from Sienna guy, add 1 extra quart, run the motor, drain 2 quarts, add 2, till the last time then just add 1 qt.
Time at 5:40 for fluid exchange, (ignore his jug on the topside, it's where you'd fill at, but he has a dipstick tube)
2009 Toyota Sienna Transmission Fluid Flush and Filter Change
YouTube


more details (I was going to keep this short...);

I must have started with the flex funnel somehow connected to 3/8 tubing going into the radiator, you should do this at first to clear the fluid out of the cooler if you use the top line in. Use any small funnel that connects to 3/8 tubing. The filling at the top cooler line (driver side) of the radiator goes so slow, you'll want to fill through the fill hole at the transmission, first I wanted to use the lower radiator line out, but it added difficulty and I wanted simple.

Initially, I left the drain plug off and just let 1/3 qt clean fluid chase down through the cooler (radiator) and drip out the pan to clear that part. I took the funnel off the clear tube and blew into the tube it was going so slow, that's when I opened the fill plug. To summarize, ran 1/3 qt through cooler, installed drain plug after it started to drip real slow.

Preferably get a new drain plug and gasket, and if the old plug is good keep it for a spare, mine is not perfect (next drain and fill will be replaced).

I used 11 and 3/4 quarts Valvoline Maxlife ATF. I open the transmission cooler line at the radiator I think I got maybe 7/10 of a quart out through the transmission cooler, measured after I drained the pan. I'm not sure of the total capacity, I thought 11 qts, somewhere in this thread I read 13 qts. Mine was noticeably red, as I saved before/after samples to show my buddies.

Change your fluid, I'd say at 30k to 40k it's gonna be dirty. Even if you're beyond whatever miles, because of the clutch plates and the friction material that wears off and you don't want that running through your solenoids clogging them up. It's basically a hydraulic machine, and Toyota transmissions are resilient from my experience.

Just adding dropped the pan and changed the filter last year, that's why I didn't get into that here.

If I haven't convinced you, try this;
Bob Is The Oil Guy
ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S
ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S - Bob Is The Oil Guy
 
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FYI... My co-worker had a 2008 RAVE 4 and he never changed the transmission fluid on it and the tyranny died on him at 250k miles on the OD. It was his commuter vehicle and he also thought the transmission fluid was "Lifetime".

Technically, that's a true statement given the cost of a transmission rebuild versus the value of the vehicle at 250K miles.
 

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