P0441 Code!

[shahsmerdis]

Hi all,
I got a 2002 4runner SR5 , randomly getting a P0440, P0441 P0446 error code. this time it was just P0441. When to check the gas cap (which was replaced a year ago with OEM), went to remove it and heard a huge vacuum of air. I assume the vent is suck and not venting correctly. Not to mention every time I go to fill up the gas tank it keeps stopping every 2 seconds. if there is a vacuum in there, I am assuming there is no leak? Which is a good thing I guess? Does that help narrow it down for someone out there?

I am just beginning to put together how to accurately diagnose it. reading previous posts etc, but I figure I'd get this thread started if anyone can point me in the right direction. I have a feeling even if I do follow the diagnosing procedures, I might not be setup with the tools to diagnose it correctly.

My question to you guys, how advance of a scan tool do you need to be able to switch the valve open and closed? is it only the toyota hand held scan tool that can do it? I rather not pay toyota to diagnose it and pay 130 dollars just for them to say it will be 400+ dollars for the charcoal canister. Ill reset the code every 6 months if i have too, as long as it passes inspection. But perfectionist I am, not sure how long I can let this happen before I just remove it and start making a test bench to test it.. Lastly the lines around the charcoal caster are pretty badly rusted, I have a feeling anyone who touches it their quoted price will quickly change.


Any inexpensive fixes here?

Thanks!

 

[AZBub]

Is your charcoal can under the hood or back by the spare?

 

[shahsmerdis]

Is your charcoal can under the hood or back by the spare?

by the spare tire. easy access, so with 1 foot ramp, There is plenty of room to work. I guess find out where the electrical connection is, and hook up 12V battery to hear a click?

question, the valve replaceable with something like this http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-911-60...1-2282-199-2-0&sr=1-8&ymm=2002:toyota:4runner

or that only for the early 3rd gens?

 

[AZBub]

by the spare tire. easy access, so with 1 foot ramp, There is plenty of room to work. I guess find out where the electrical connection is, and hook up 12V battery to hear a click?

question, the valve replaceable with something like this http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-911-60...1-2282-199-2-0&sr=1-8&ymm=2002:toyota:4runner

or that only for the early 3rd gens?

Use a 9v battery and test every emissions VSV for the click. There should be three VSVs if memory serves me correctly. one is larger than the other two and more expensive

I had ordered the generic one Amazon said would work and it didn't so i just sourced the part number and ordered the Toyota one.

It may be time to replace your emissions lines too if they are crumbly. I think its silicone intakes where they have a kit of tubing you can use. Check the charcoal can for cracking along the seams.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Use a 9v battery and test every emissions VSV for the click. There should be three VSVs if memory serves me correctly. one is larger than the other two and more expensive

I had ordered the generic one Amazon said would work and it didn't so i just sourced the part number and ordered the Toyota one.

It may be time to replace your emissions lines too if they are crumbly. I think its silicone intakes where they have a kit of tubing you can use. Check the charcoal can for cracking along the seams.

Are they all near the charcoal canister, or is that just one of them?

my friend has a more expensive scan tool. Any chance they can be operated with software?

 

[AZBub]

No you can't operate the VSVs with a scan tool as far as I know. With the 4runners where the charcoal can is under the hood all three VSVs pertaining to emissions are right there.

 

[kc01runner]

I'm having the same issue I replaced the cannister and new OEM fuelmcap still trips every 150 miles . its frustrating as hell!

 

[AZBub]

just a heads up. You really shouldn't have to replace the charcoal can. that's pretty much the last thing you would want to do.

 

[MN4runnerman]

There is one in the engine bay and the PN is 90910-12245 it's over by the fuse box right along the fender.

 

[shahsmerdis]

There is one in the engine bay and the PN is 90910-12245 it's over by the fuse box right along the fender.

Thanks so much!

So ill need a vacuum pump and a 9v battery to test these guys? it seems like a bunch of people have the same issue, im really surprised there isn't a clear write up. Hopefully I can document mine, and present it. Just still gathering some back ground information.

 

[MN4runnerman]

Thanks so much!

So ill need a vacuum pump and a 9v battery to test these guys? it seems like a bunch of people have the same issue, im really surprised there isn't a clear write up. Hopefully I can document mine, and present it. Just still gathering some back ground information.

I had this issue last week and fixed it with a new oem gas cap but not before I did all the research on what to replace. I found this thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/166364-p0440-p0441-p0446.html and it helped a bit. And yes to your question you'll need those to test.

 

[shahsmerdis]

I had this issue last week and fixed it with a new oem gas cap but not before I did all the research on what to replace. I found this thread http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/166364-p0440-p0441-p0446.html and it helped a bit. And yes to your question you'll need those to test.

Well I'd like to hook up a scan tool to ensure its all fixed, how did you confirm yours was fixed?

Eric from SMA channel,

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaJW8Ju80ORZLp4Ur5Hf6m6-xdi1tmrZT

Does a good job in explaining the type of testing, and the overall evap system.

Unfortunately I since I don't have the tools, I dont think ill be able to accurately diagnose it the way he does. but maybe a few simple tests is a step in the right direction.

I replaced the gas cap, but since there was a huge vacuum I know there is something stuck. I guess its process of elimination to get one of these 3 to show signs of failure.

is the procedure for diagnosing each one out there somewhere?


Thanks.

 

[MN4runnerman]

Well I'd like to hook up a scan tool to ensure its all fixed, how did you confirm yours was fixed?

Eric from SMA channel,

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaJW8Ju80ORZLp4Ur5Hf6m6-xdi1tmrZT

Does a good job in explaining the type of testing, and the overall evap system.

Unfortunately I since I don't have the tools, I dont think ill be able to accurately diagnose it the way he does. but maybe a few simple tests is a step in the right direction.

I replaced the gas cap, but since there was a huge vacuum I know there is something stuck. I guess its process of elimination to get one of these 3 to show signs of failure.

is the procedure for diagnosing each one out there somewhere?


Thanks.

This video shows how they tested the VSV on the charcoal canister https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FQFULrEY3NE. I would think it's a similar process for the one in the engine bay. I used my pocket scanner to clear the codes after installing the new gas cap and that was 6 days and about 200 miles ago and I have not had them return. It's essentially a process of elimination and I would start by testing the one in the engine bay first since it's the easiest to reach.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to track down my P0440, 0441, 446 codes, Does anyone know how to get torque to read out fuel tank pressure sensor? It seems like its not supported, can anyone confirm? Or know of another scan tool that can support it that is not crazy expensive?

Thanks.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to track down my P0440, 0441, 446 codes, Does anyone know how to get torque to read out fuel tank pressure sensor? It seems like its not supported, can anyone confirm? Or know of another scan tool that can support it that is not crazy expensive?

Thanks.

I don't think that any app would read fuel tank pressure. Maybe fuel pressure only.

I had these 3 codes when I first bought my truck, after replacing the VSV at the canister and replacing the gaskets on top of the fuel tank, it ended up needing the canister. But as [MENTION=122900]AZBub[/MENTION] mentioned, its the last thing you want to do. If you do replace the canister, get one out of a junkyard, they are >$400 at the stealer. I paid $50 for mine and never had another problem since.

Those codes on my truck took 500 miles + to come back when I was trying to fix it. I ended up taking it to the dealership, and they couldn't pinpoint the problem.

 

[01thunder]

my truck kept popping evap codes often. replaced canister, everything went away.

 

[AZBub]

99.99% of the time if it's the canister it's due to cracks big and/or hairline.

Some suggest over topping off the fuel tank can cause the can to fill with fuel and drilling a hole to drain it then capping the hole. TOTALLY not necessary. This is one of those things in your truck you really shouldn't have to ever replace.

fix it for 5 bucks and get some JB weld. if you're a sissy you can spray paint it black.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shahsmerdis]

I don't think that any app would read fuel tank pressure. Maybe fuel pressure only.

I had these 3 codes when I first bought my truck, after replacing the VSV at the canister and replacing the gaskets on top of the fuel tank, it ended up needing the canister. But as [MENTION=122900]AZBub[/MENTION] mentioned, its the last thing you want to do. If you do replace the canister, get one out of a junkyard, they are >$400 at the stealer. I paid $50 for mine and never had another problem since.

Those codes on my truck took 500 miles + to come back when I was trying to fix it. I ended up taking it to the dealership, and they couldn't pinpoint the problem.

Well I Was hoping to read the waveform data to see what exactly is the issue. But looks like you need a toyota scan tool. According to this thread, there is a vapor sensor. I hope there is access to it some how.. I guess I could probe the ECU but i rather avoid that.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/166364-p0440-p0441-p0446.html#post1674118

I was trying to follow the diagnostic procedure so I can have a confirmed culprit . The only thing I am worried about is the lines to be rusted so if i just start to throw parts at it, things might become a more expensive problem and still not fix the issue.

It is definitely one of the vents, as the system is not venting. I take the gas cap off and i hear a big vacuum Just not sure where that is located. I am assuming its in the charcoal canister. not sure exactly what the vent looks like either. Rather new to this. Ill mess around with this weekend, drop the spare tire, and check. After that I'll leave it to mechanic to diagnose it early next week see what he says.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

Well I Was hoping to read the waveform data to see what exactly is the issue. But looks like you need a toyota scan tool. According to this thread, there is a vapor sensor. I hope there is access to it some how.. I guess I could probe the ECU but i rather avoid that.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/166364-p0440-p0441-p0446.html#post1674118

I was trying to follow the diagnostic procedure so I can have a confirmed culprit . The only thing I am worried about is the lines to be rusted so if i just start to throw parts at it, things might become a more expensive problem and still not fix the issue.

It is definitely one of the vents, as the system is not venting. I take the gas cap off and i hear a big vacuum Just not sure where that is located. I am assuming its in the charcoal canister. not sure exactly what the vent looks like either. Rather new to this. Ill mess around with this weekend, drop the spare tire, and check. After that I'll leave it to mechanic to diagnose it early next week see what he says.

The canister can leak within itself as well. That's what happened to mine. I sometimes hear a vacuum as well. But with replacing the canister, you also get the VSV in the back.

What you can do to make sure that the top of the gas tank isn't leaking is to squirt some soapy water on the top and see if it bubbles, if it doesn't it rules out one of the plastic openings being broken at the top of the tank.

You can squirt some soapy water on the hoses as well, but honestly without a smoke machine you are up the river without a paddle to find a pinhole leak in a hose.

As most people have found, pinhole leaks are very unusual, and most people end up replacing the canister. I would make sure the top of the gas tank was not the culprit, then find a used canister to throw in. The VSV back there is also $50, but comes with the canister.

I fixed mine without knowing the fuel tank pressure.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Here are some of the many photos I Took under the charcoal canister.

I don't think I have a valve in the anymore =P. looks like one block of rust.

One big cluster F***

EDIT ALL THE LIQUID IS FLUID FILM! NOT A LEAK