Please help me identify/fix this suspension problem

[Awdtsi42o]

Hey guys,

I have had my Toyota 4Runner for a total of 3 weeks and so far it's been great, it's an awesome vehicle and I have a ton of fun driving it, it is a very good purchase.

Overall, as I mentioned before I am very happy, however in the past 2 days I started hearing a clunking noise coming from the rear passenger side of the vehicle.

Upon further inspection of the rear passengers wheel, I noticed that there was something rusted and broken off in the suspension. I am not sure exactly what the part is or what it does so I need your help. It is probably something very simple but I just am not familiar with this suspension setup. I spoke with someone about the issue and they said it may be a thrust bar or something like that, not sure.

I have taken some pictures. I am currently on my phone so I do not know if I will be able to upload them but I am going to give it my best shot. I need to get this fixed ASAP, this is my daily driver and it being without it means work stops.

Thank you very much for any information or suggestions that may be helpful. I will be checking back on the forum frequently to reply with any information you guys need or more pictures.

Thanks again for any help its greatly appreciated,

Erick

 

[Awdtsi42o]

Pictures

Pictures, hopefully this works )_

 

[Clone of the Mean]

Hope you can weld..... That whole bracket/hanger for that link is wasted. Gonna take some serious fabrication. I hope I'm wrong, but it looks nasty.

 

[Awdtsi42o]

Bummer

What a bummer...

I thought the same thing when I first looked at it but I was hoping that I was wrong and it wasn't something major.

Anyway, how dangerous is it to drive like this? There is no other noise besides the clunking of this being loose. If I avoid bumps and take it slow can I still drive at all?

Can I still drive on the highway or is the car not safe?

I do not weld myself, but I have worked on cars most of my life is there... Is there any other way around this without welding?

Thanks again for your help,

Erick

Hope you can weld..... That whole bracket/hanger for that link is wasted. Gonna take some serious fabrication. I hope I'm wrong, but it looks nasty.

 

[SV_Dude]

Where are you located? Maybe there is someone in your local area that can help you out. I wouldn't drive on it if you can help it.

 

[Clone of the Mean]

I wouldn't drive it unless I absolutely had to. Steering is in the front, but that gives up and who knows what direction the front is gonna want to go.

It looks like it's been repaired before. It doesn't look impossible to repair, but finding something solid to attach it to looks minimal. Lotta rust there.


Good luck

 

[csrobb007]

It's major...being a link attachment point, if it did completely let go, the rear end housing will move and rotate (try to twist out of it's mountings) and send the truck to the left...hard...not to mention the lower link becoming a pogo stick and possibly digging into the road surface. Think of it like driving head-on into oncoming traffic at whatever speed. See your local fab shop...should be a relatively easy fix for a seasoned fabricator / welder. The key will be squaring the bracket(s) up prior to install, so as to not make the truck "dog walk" due to the lower links being non-adjustable. Check the other side closely and replace both at same time.
I don't know what rates the shops in your area charge, but from the picture, I would quote at three days in shop, 2 brackets made, probably 3 to 4 hundred at very most. 3 day turnaround.

 

[Awdtsi42o]

Hey guys,

Thank you very much for all of the replies, I appreciate that.

I have access to a welder that I would be able to use if I attempt this project by myself I have done minor welding in the past but I could practice before actually attempting this repair.

What would be the procedure to make a bracket and weld on? If anyone has done this before, please let me know what you did any problems you ran into, etc. I have access to a welder like I mentioned before but I am not sure what type it is.

What type of welder would be ideal for this repair?

What type of metal should I consider for making the bracket?

What other tools will I need to fabricate the brackets? Specialized tools, I have a decent set of tools.

Thanks again, I would really appreciate any guidance, would prefer to do it myself.

I'll check back in a while,

Erick

 

[Clone of the Mean]

Like csrobb says it controls the forward aspect of your rear end. The up and down is your springs. The biggest factor is finding suitable metal to reattach your brackets. And measure, measure, measure. Dunno if you can get the brackets from a dealer or aftermarket.

The cool thing about fabbing stuff is just making it.....tack it together, if you don't like it, or if you mess it up, or it doesn't fit, take it apart and redo it. A grinder, welder and good drill bits are all you need. Plasma cutters are nice too....

 

[csrobb007]

Hey guys,

Thank you very much for all of the replies, I appreciate that.

I have access to a welder that I would be able to use if I attempt this project by myself I have done minor welding in the past but I could practice before actually attempting this repair.

What would be the procedure to make a bracket and weld on? If anyone has done this before, please let me know what you did any problems you ran into, etc. I have access to a welder like I mentioned before but I am not sure what type it is.

What type of welder would be ideal for this repair?

What type of metal should I consider for making the bracket?

What other tools will I need to fabricate the brackets? Specialized tools, I have a decent set of tools.

Thanks again, I would really appreciate any guidance, would prefer to do it myself.

I'll check back in a while,

Erick

To answer your questions, first understand that this is not what I would call a "minor" project...only because if something breaks, someone gets hurt.
Having said that...Welder: Wire (MIG) with a 80/20 mix of gas...better penetration of the weld, and cleaner (read that "easier") welds than shielded or cored wire.
Brackets: Take measurements (exacting) from old bracket(s), notes about location, and pictures of everything for reference...the control arm is non-adjustable and MUST go back in the same position (rear end location, pinion angle, etc. depend on it) Brackets can be made of 1/8 inch mild steel...but probably easier to have a sheet metal / fab shop bend the bracket (take them a drawing of the part with measurements). One piece bracket will be stronger than one pieced together and look better, with less possibility of deflection issues.
Prep: Clean, clean, clean!!! Grind enough of the metal so as to remove rust, but not thin the frame...don't remove deep pits. Remaining rust etc., can be removed either chemically, or with a good blaster...don't make the frame any thinner than it already is...strength depends on it. If you find the frame has holes or isn't sound enough to cleanly weld to it...plate it and spread the pressures farther than what the bracket will place on it. Keep gas pressures high for a clean weld, tack in multiple mirror places (side to side and opposites) to reduce pull. And "glue" it!

 

[runrun85]

think you could post more pictures? I have the same year how is the over all shape? any rust besides underneath could I see your vechicle over are you doing the work yourself or is someone doin it for you?

 

[Awdtsi42o]

Thanks for all of the information and support, really means alot to me.

I am located in Mass, I would be willing to drive anywhere in the New England area if there was a member who would be willing to help out with project, if they have a welder and ripple to fabricate the part, that would be awesome.

From what I have read, seems like a MIG welder with an 80/20 mix would be ideal. I believe the welder my grandfather owns uses electric or something, I am not sure. I am going to call him later and see what he has. Then you guys can tell me if it will work on this application.

Can I just get a piece of 1/8"-3/16" metal, heat it up with a torch, pound/bend it into the shape I need, the submerge in cold water?


Also, as far as prepping the area I am going to weld onto - will a wire brush and brake cleaner work?

I am going to take measurements from the other side so I know where to weld in the new bracket. Anything else I am missing?

1. Remove old bracket and wire brush/scrape away all of the rust.
2. Take measurements, fabricate new bracket.
3. Weld in new bracket, re-install tension bar (proper name?)

If thee is something I am missing, please let me know. Thanks very much for everyones help, this is a great, very active and knowledgeable forum.

Thanks again,

Erick

 

[Clone of the Mean]

I would call the dealer and see if there is a replacement bracket available. Even call a junkyard and try to salvage one. Beats the hell out of fabricating one. Like csrobb said, definitely expect to fab the frame where you're going to replace the bracket. Dunno if its better to stitch weld it or zip it all the way up. I did a plate on my old Blazer and the instructions said to stitch weld it. (run a 1" bead every few inches around the plate). Maybe someone can give their two cents worth. Old chevy frames are weak and brittle, toyotas are pretty beefy.

I don't think a wire brush is gonna do the job for you. I would buy a few sanding discs for your grinder. They get the job done really well.

Be sure and take pictures and post up a "How To".

 

[csrobb007]

In fabbing the bracket, I would not water cool it...it takes the ability for the metal to flex a little (makes the metal brittle), and as far as brake cleaner, it's good for grease and the like but will not do anything for rust...muratic acid based cleaners work best for a chemical cleaner.
When welding...if you find there's enough metal left of the frame to weld direct...stich it with one inch welds every two inches (or so)...frames are flexable and you don't want too much heat in one area at a time (again making the steel brittle), if you box the frame in, weld 100%, it won't hurt it any.
If I was doing it, my biggest concern would be LOCATION...measure a dozen times if nessesary, but make sure it's in the right spot before you weld it...you don't look like you've got a whole lot of solid metal to be doing things twice. Take your time...you'll get it.

 

[SV_Dude]

If you end up doing this you'll be cleaning rust, grinding and welding... Be extremely careful in how you clean and prep your metal before you grind or weld on it. Make sure your cleaners are 100% dry especially in the little pits of the metal where rust has made small holes.

Read the following, it will give you a LOT of appreciation towards using chemicals before welding or grinding. A simple mistake could have costed this person his life:

Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article

 

[csrobb007]

If you end up doing this you'll be cleaning rust, grinding and welding... Be extremely careful in how you clean and prep your metal before you grind or weld on it. Make sure your cleaners are 100% dry especially in the little pits of the metal where rust has made small holes.

Read the following, it will give you a LOT of appreciation towards using chemicals before welding or grinding. A simple mistake could have costed this person his life:

Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article

Agreed! In twenty five years of gluing metal together of damn near every type and process, I've been lucky...only one small instance of poisoning that could have been worse than it was (galv or zinc poisoning), and it didn't take much to make me sick. Over the years I have upgraded my tooling and processes to include a hood (helmet) that feeds fresh filtered air, leather of every size and type...you get the idea... and it pains me to see people short cut on the most basic of safety equipment. $39 welding hood from someplace like Harbor Freight...I don't think so.
My advice to anyone is this...If you don't know what your doing, learn from someone who does...I try to teach anyone who wants to learn, and try to instill an idea of safety first. This is a trade where sometimes there isn't a second chance...in this particular instance, think of your family riding with you down the freeway...when that bracket fails...who gets hurt?
Am I just trying to scare someone? ABSOLUTELY! This isn't the type of project you "practice on"...it's not a bumper, or some other type of non-structural part on the truck...when I said in an earlier post "you can do it"...I meant with a qualified welder. I say this because of the questions you've asked, and how you've asked them...just don't take it on by yourself.
I'm not trying to be an ass...I just don't like to see people doing things that would hurt someone...get some weld time under your belt, there's nothing wrong with learning...just know your limitations.

 

[SV_Dude]

OP: If you feel confident in doing this, then go for it. But you have to make sure that you know what you're doing. Think about this, if that one part of the 4runner is rusted that much... what is the rest of it like? Is this a vehicle that is worth saving? Odds are you'll have to plate the frame at least 12" forward and aft of that location due to the rust weakening that area.

Do some practice runs with your welder on some scrap steel. Make darn sure that your welds are good and strong with plenty of penetration. Learn to cut steel with some good precision and have a good plan on how you're going to fab these brackets. If anything, if the brackets are misaligned but your welds are strong... your only problem will be a bad rear alignment.

However, my advice: If you're having to ask this question on how to fix it then I would suggest you do not fix it yourself. You need to learn how to do this stuff elsewhere. Think of this as life support. Not to be an arse but I could care less if someone tries to win a darwin award, but as CSROBB said, think of others around you.