Rear Axle Seals: The Ultimate Information and Replacement Thread (3rd gen)

[kissmybass]

I got a question about bearing play. On my 4runner I have zero up and down play but about 1/16th of an inch in and out play (when bolted up). Is this in and out play what causes the seal leaks or is it normal?

I put brand new toyota OEM bearings in and noticed there's a little play. It's in and out as you described after it's all bolted up. I had some leaks but it's due to what Timmy the toolman said. The re-designed seal. I corrected this by just not seating the seal all the way. We're talking about 1-2mm here. Do the grease test to confirm. It should ride in the middle.

Note, Before, there was 1 aftermarket bearing on my passenger side and it had 0 play. Weird right? I think the FSM says it's ok to have some play. Hope that helps.

 

[Mudeprived]

I put brand new toyota OEM bearings in and noticed there's a little play. It's in and out as you described after it's all bolted up. I had some leaks but it's due to what Timmy the toolman said. The re-designed seal. I corrected this by just not seating the seal all the way. We're talking about 1-2mm here. Do the grease test to confirm. It should ride in the middle.

Note, Before, there was 1 aftermarket bearing on my passenger side and it had 0 play. Weird right? I think the FSM says it's ok to have some play. Hope that helps.

I was actually thinking about not pressing the seal in fully and you brought it up before i could ask. If mine leaks then I will do this method because my bearing appears to be fine.

 

[2ndhandyotaman]

Thanks mtbtim. I was finally able to get the parts I needed, just had to deal with the parts dept mngr who was out on the day that I tried to get the parts I actually needed. Apparently he heard about my 20 minute argument with the person behind the counter that day.

I can add positively to this thread now, I had an idea that helped me located the position of the abs tone ring. After I seated the bearing and pressed it onto the shaft, I put the shaft back into the axle housing and bolted it in. Then I used a big Sharpie that I inserted into the ABS sensor hole until it contacted the axle shaft, then spun the shaft to transfer a visible mark onto the shaft. I took that shaft out and used that line as a reference indicator for positioning the tone ring so that it fell right into the middle of the hole in the axle housing. Worked great, both tone rings are centered in the opening for the ABS sensor. I don't know if it really matters, but I couldn't see any harm in doing it this way. Once that was done, I used the grease trick from your video and got the retainer collar positioned so that the lip of the seal was hitting in the middle of those rings. I also positioned the bevel outboard, towards the axle shaft flange. I guess that all I can do now is wait and see if the gear oil stays where it's supposed to.

Thanks for your videos, and to everyone else on this forum that shares information. It's a big change from my dealings on the jeep forum, too many keyboard warriors with no actual experience.

 

[kissmybass]

I was actually thinking about not pressing the seal in fully and you brought it up before i could ask. If mine leaks then I will do this method because my bearing appears to be fine.

I just redid my seals since I swapped to a locker axle. Prior though it was running fine not fully seated. There’s nothing that would knock it out so I think this is safe for the folks that had machine shops match the oem positions. I was not going to go back to them to move it . Good luck.

BTW, we're talking about 99% seated here. I can take a pix if anyone is really curious. I got my spare axle that I did this on.

 

[mtbtim]

Thanks mtbtim. I was finally able to get the parts I needed, just had to deal with the parts dept mngr who was out on the day that I tried to get the parts I actually needed. Apparently he heard about my 20 minute argument with the person behind the counter that day.

I can add positively to this thread now, I had an idea that helped me located the position of the abs tone ring. After I seated the bearing and pressed it onto the shaft, I put the shaft back into the axle housing and bolted it in. Then I used a big Sharpie that I inserted into the ABS sensor hole until it contacted the axle shaft, then spun the shaft to transfer a visible mark onto the shaft. I took that shaft out and used that line as a reference indicator for positioning the tone ring so that it fell right into the middle of the hole in the axle housing. Worked great, both tone rings are centered in the opening for the ABS sensor. I don't know if it really matters, but I couldn't see any harm in doing it this way. Once that was done, I used the grease trick from your video and got the retainer collar positioned so that the lip of the seal was hitting in the middle of those rings. I also positioned the bevel outboard, towards the axle shaft flange. I guess that all I can do now is wait and see if the gear oil stays where it's supposed to.

Thanks for your videos, and to everyone else on this forum that shares information. It's a big change from my dealings on the jeep forum, too many keyboard warriors with no actual experience.

Great job. You did it right and now you'll be leak free for a very long time.

 

[calnhob]

Toyota OEM vs Nachi (ebay) bearings

My left axle is leaking so I have to get my rear axle seals and bearings replaced. Right is fine but might as well get them both done at the same time plus the truck has over 215K miles so it's time.

I bought an ebay seal/bearing kit (bearings by Nachi Made in JP) for $50 and compared them to the OEM bearing I got from Camelback (Koyo Made in JP) for $70.50. Both are OEM supplies to Toyota from what I've read.

NACHI (6308-2NSE9 on the box and 6308NSE C3 on the bearing itself) on the LEFT and KOYO (Toyo part# 90363-40020-77) on the RIGHT.

OD: should be 90mm and both were
ID: should be 40mm and both were
Thickness: don't know the oem spec but both were 24mm

Both spun smoothly although the Nachi were slightly easier to spin. Don't know if that's good or bad, just an observation.

Also, the seal/bearing kit came with 2 retainers and outer and inner seal but I'm going to only use the bearing and outer seal. Inner seal will be OEM.

<img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4462/37469930092_c65b6675e5_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_3655">
<img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4500/36831895033_e6f626b9c4_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_3656">


<img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4494/37469926502_6bd9f84e86_o.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_3657">

 

[mendozer]

hmm that's good to know. why is it needed to replace the retainers anyways? They're just metal rings with a bevel.

check this out, same NAchi bearings for less.

ebay kit, not sure if this is the same seller, but it's a two wheel kit for the price of one OEM bearing

 

[Mudeprived]

You can get all the Genuine Toyota parts for both sides (bearings, retainers, seals, ring gear, etc) for $90-something shipped from Amayama.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

hmm that's good to know. why is it needed to replace the retainers anyways? They're just metal rings with a bevel.

check this out, same NAchi bearings for less.

ebay kit, not sure if this is the same seller, but it's a two wheel kit for the price of one OEM bearing

Most people (I'm one of them) believe that the OEM parts are just better. Toyotas just seem to be very "sensitive" to AM parts. That being said, I actually used the KOYO bearings in the rear. The price difference was just too great and KOYO was the OE manufacturer of the bearings at that time.

To answer your question about the retainers. OEM price is around $15. This and the inner seal are the critical parts and together only cost lest than $30. Just doesn't make sense to replace a critical seal without replacing the sleeve it's been spinning on for 15+ years. Furthermore, if you know how to press the parts off you can reuse the outer retainer and the ABS rotor (some replace this because they are cutting it off, which is a problem in itself), saving you $70 a side.

 

[mtbtim]

Most people (I'm one of them) believe that the OEM parts are just better. Toyotas just seem to be very "sensitive" to AM parts. That being said, I actually used the KOYO bearings in the rear. The price difference was just too great and KOYO was the OE manufacturer of the bearings at that time.

To answer your question about the retainers. OEM price is around $15. This and the inner seal are the critical parts and together only cost lest than $30. Just doesn't make sense to replace a critical seal without replacing the sleeve it's been spinning on for 15+ years. Furthermore, if you know how to press the parts off you can reuse the outer retainer and the ABS rotor (some replace this because they are cutting it off, which is a problem in itself), saving you $70 a side.

Hey John, you can actually reuse BOTH retainers if you pull the parts off rather than cutting them off. The way I do it is I swap the position of the retainers on each axle. The outer retainer is just a holder for the bearing and it doesn't receive any wear from a seal riding on it. So, I put that one in the inner position and put the inner one in the outer position. More money saved.

 

[mendozer]

You can get all the Genuine Toyota parts for both sides (bearings, retainers, seals, ring gear, etc) for $90-something shipped from Amayama.

Hmm 'll look there. I got my tie rods and LBJs from Amayama. Too good of a deal to pass up. You'd think they're rusting in a warehouse for their prices!

 

[4'running'26]

Man, that kit is tempting! I, too, like to go with OEM, but considering KOYO was the original manufacturer, is there any reason to believe the kit for sale on Ebay would be a problem?

 

[4'running'26]

You can get all the Genuine Toyota parts for both sides (bearings, retainers, seals, ring gear, etc) for $90-something shipped from Amayama.

I just priced it out on Amayama and it came to a little over $200 and that's without shipping. Am I missing something?

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on this Ebay Kit and then supplementing with OEM inner seals and retainers.

 

[traben27]

I failed state inspection for my left rear brakes being coated in oil. I hadn't noticed anything on the wheel/tire, so I was surprised. I took the drum off tonight and was a little confused as it appears as everything is coated, but there's a ton of what appears to be grease everywhere, not oil. Is this what it typically looks like when the axle seal goes out?

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/65975175@N07/37507415120/in/dateposted/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4475/37507415120_b245c98c93_c.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/65975175@N07/37507414510/in/photostream/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4457/37507414510_506f25ce19_c.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I ran my finger along the bottom and it was coated in grease...

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/65975175@N07/37056698274/in/photostream/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4458/37056698274_368009bac6_c.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[mtbtim]

I failed state inspection for my left rear brakes being coated in oil. I hadn't noticed anything on the wheel/tire, so I was surprised. I took the drum off tonight and was a little confused as it appears as everything is coated, but there's a ton of what appears to be grease everywhere, not oil. Is this what it typically looks like when the axle seal goes out?

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/65975175@N07/37507415120/in/dateposted/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4475/37507415120_b245c98c93_c.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/65975175@N07/37507414510/in/photostream/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4457/37507414510_506f25ce19_c.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I ran my finger along the bottom and it was coated in grease...

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/65975175@N07/37056698274/in/photostream/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4458/37056698274_368009bac6_c.jpg" width="480" height="640" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What you have on your finger is a mix of mostly gear oil, brake dust and maybe some of the grease that got washed out of your axle bearing.

That is exactly what it looks like when your axle seal fails.

If you want to fix this yourself, you have a couple choices. Follow the lead of the OP, pull your axles and let a shop do the press work for you or you can go back a few pages in this thread and find the video [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I made for this repair and do the entire job yourself.

 

[traben27]

What you have on your finger is a mix of mostly gear oil, brake dust and maybe some of the grease that got washed out of your axle bearing.

That is exactly what it looks like when your axle seal fails.

If you want to fix this yourself, you have a couple choices. Follow the lead of the OP, pull your axles and let a shop do the press work for you or you can go back a few pages in this thread and find the video [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I made for this repair and do the entire job yourself.

Good to know. I've read the initial write up a couple of times and watched your video yesterday, just wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy as you can see that a lot of the brake components are actually completely clean.

I'm going to try and find a good shop around here to do the press work. Thanks!

 

[4'running'26]

I'm ordering all the parts for my rear seals and bearings job. I figured I'd better go ahead and get brake shoes while I'm at it since I've read all over this thread that they're likely toast due to all the diff fluid soaking them.

When ordering rear shoes from Camelback, it is described as a "shoe kit."

What does this "kit" include? Is it more than just the shoes? Springs, etc?

Link to kit here.

Also, [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION], are the ABS rings likely to get damaged during the press work? I watched your video and saw that you included those in the parts you bought but I thought they could be reused if they weren't being grinded off.

Thanks, all!

JT

 

[manualdr5]

So, I noticed my leak on Sunday, and ordered my parts last night. It's nice to see that some of the online resources have brought the parts pricing down significantly!

Parts: $273.00 Canadian
Labour: $200 Canadian (a local machine shop that does exceptional work charges about an hour per axle on these and has experience with them)

So long as I can hold out until freight arrives and time things right, I should be done for under $500! I've already got fresh oil on hand as a fluid change was on my maintenance list.

Let's see how this goes!

Hey Roamed YT, what part of Canada are you from? I need to perform this job and I'm looking for a local machine shop. I'm hoping you're in the Toronto area, thanks!

 

[manualdr5]

MC Heavy Duty Rear Axel EcoSeal

Hey Guys,

Just curious if anyone has any experience with the heavy duty rear axel seal by MC?

I'm very new to this stuff so I'm not sure if I got this right but Im guessing that this seal is designed to accommodate the retainer bevel better than the Toyota factory seal? Thus not requiring you to install the retainer in the reverse order as suggested by DrCoffee?

https://www.marlincrawler.com/axle/rear-axle-parts/heavy-duty-rear-axle-ecoseal

Dave

 

[heat]

"excluding axles with ABS"