Rear Axle Seals: The Ultimate Information and Replacement Thread (3rd gen)

[mtbtim]

Anyone have the size and thread pitch of the 4 bolts on the back of the hub that hold the axle assembly onto the axle? I'm trying to do this job without the need of the special tool to remove the bearings/retainer/ABS sensor.

These guys:

I'm pretty damn sure they are M10 x 1.25 pitch. But, not 100% sure.

 

[Scramble]

I'm pretty damn sure they are M10 x 1.25 pitch. But, not 100% sure.

Since we're on the subject:

Tim,
Is your HF press bolted to the floor or is ok to use as is? I'm gonna have to pick one up, I've luckily avoided this repair for years now with a new breather & inner seal but the time has come. I want to do it myself & replace the bearings too. I've watched your video & seems easy enough, just a pain in the ass.

Just for anyone wondering, my local dealer charged me $1200 to do the bearings, seals, wheel cylinders, and brake shoes for both sides


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For that money I could buy a HF 20 ton press & a used TRD Supercharger.

 

[mtbtim]

Since we're on the subject:

Tim,
Is your HF press bolted to the floor or is ok to use as is? I'm gonna have to pick one up, I've luckily avoided this repair for years now with a new breather & inner seal but the time has come. I want to do it myself & replace the bearings too. I've watched your video & seems easy enough, just a pain in the ass.

It's not bolted to the floor and works fine. It wobbled a bit so I put some folded rags under one of the legs to lessen the movement.

The Dura Solid special tool works well but the alteration I did to the plate is necessary when pressing out the axle from the bearing unless you use some longer bolts so you can grab more threads with the nuts.

The press sleeve kit I bought has come in very handy for many jobs so I recommend that as well.

Finally, you need a bearing splitter unless you plan on getting the ABS gear and inner retainer off a different way.

You can save around $150 on parts by reusing the ABS gears and retainers. I discuss this in the video description.

Good luck with the repair!

 

[Jason B]

Here is the inner seal removed.

How pretty.

On jackstands:

This was the best write-up I found, but I read them all. This is specifically for models with ABS, which makes a little difference, well, it's just a little trickier to get the inner seal out on models with abs.

https://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/dcrim1_oilseal/dcrim1_oilseal.htm

It wasn't bad at all. I took my time and had a friend help me pull the axel out. I wanted to make sure I kept it real steady when pulling it out.

All the time as spent on cleaning up all the oil soaked stuff, wheel, drums, etc.

Some other tips that worked great.

Make a note of these:

1) "I did find out if you put the new axle seal in the freezer for about 10 minutes, it shrinks just enough to easly slide back in the place of the old one. The seals are very hard to fit back in if you dont do this and they have to go in perfect or you might damage it."
by Jataga

2) "You'll need to bleed the wheel cylinder on that side. That's probably my least favorite part of the job.

You can try gravity bleeding it by just leaving the bleeder screw open and draining into a cup while keeping an eye on the master cyl. to make sure it doesn't run dry. It doesn't drain very fast, but keep an eye on it.
Gravity bleeding usually works, but if not you can have your friend step on the brake pedal an hold it, while you crack open the bleeder to let the pressure out, then close the bleeder, and have your friend let back off the brake. A few cycles of that after gravity bleeding should do the trick.

Don't let the master cylinder run dry and don't let your buddy let off the brake while you have the bleeder open. Either one will introduce more air into the system instead of get it out.
If you're going to be working on your (or a buddies) truck and bleeding/flushing brakes, buy a motive products power bleeder. Its worth it."
by Erik

3) Buy some rubber vacuum caps from Advance auto to plug your brake line after you disconnect it.
7/32in. part # 47392, about $2.

I just had a a friend bleed it at the back when I stepped on the brake pedal. This whole process for the bleeding took 1 min exact, very easy with two people.

(the above repair lasted 6 years, then some leaking, then it stopped on it's own and hasn't leaked since after I topped the diff off!)

 

[Scramble]

It's not bolted to the floor and works fine. It wobbled a bit so I put some folded rags under one of the legs to lessen the movement.

The Dura Solid special tool works well but the alteration I did to the plate is necessary when pressing out the axle from the bearing unless you use some longer bolts so you can grab more threads with the nuts.

The press sleeve kit I bought has come in very handy for many jobs so I recommend that as well.

Finally, you need a bearing splitter unless you plan on getting the ABS gear and inner retainer off a different way.

You can save around $150 on parts by reusing the ABS gears and retainers. I discuss this in the video description.

Good luck with the repair!

Yea, I'll just buy all of the tools in your video & go with the longer bolts. Thanks man! If I lived near you I'd just bring you the axles, I've pulled them before & it's easy.

 

[Mudeprived]

Since we're on the subject:

Tim,
Is your HF press bolted to the floor or is ok to use as is? I'm gonna have to pick one up, I've luckily avoided this repair for years now with a new breather & inner seal but the time has come. I want to do it myself & replace the bearings too. I've watched your video & seems easy enough, just a pain in the ass.



For that money I could buy a HF 20 ton press & a used TRD Supercharger.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

BigFishAllDay add me to the list of folks that appreciate you for this write up including all part numbers, etc. and thank you. 8+ years and counting and still this thread is worth its weight in gold.

You're welcome, and thank you for taking the time to post! It's good to know the thread is still helping people get the job done.

 

[Snowden]

Yea, I'll just buy all of the tools in your video & go with the longer bolts. Thanks man! If I lived near you I'd just bring you the axles, I've pulled them before & it's easy.

Tim is definitely the MAN...! Fly out for his next party in November you'd dig it.

 

[Scramble]

Tim is definitely the MAN...! Fly out for his next party in November you'd dig it.

I'd love to but I only have 2 vacations left for the rest of the year & it would be no fun without my rig there.

 

[weekendclimber]

As for the puller tool, I've gone back and forth on buying one or making one. I'm a cheap bastard and I like to make things, but the puller tool is one thing that I've had a hard time pulling the trigger on.

I've considered making something like this:

But then the other day I saw another method that involved drilling a hole in the crossbar of the press:

This got me thinking about another method that doesn't involve drilling into the press. Rather than doing that, I'm going to get two 3"x8" half-inch plates and drill a hole in the middle. Then you can put a long grade 8 bolt down through that and into the bearing case. The plates would cost me about $25, though it would require pounding the studs out as demonstrated by [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] in his video.

This is what prompted my previous question regarding the thread size and pitch of the four bolts on the bearing case. Now I'm thinking that the case isn't threaded, but the bolts would come down through the plate and get secured from behind. Kind of like this:

Anyone see anything wrong with this? The plates are 1/2" A36 hot rolled steel, so they would be plenty strong enough even at the full 20 ton capacity of the press.

I've got the press sleeves that [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] has, so getting everything back together isn't a big deal.

 

[Mark_BC]

So I finally looked in my ABS port and saw this on the left side. This is after the truck not moving for 3 weeks. The right side is dry(er).

I don't have the parts yet and won't be able to get them in time before I go over to my mom's house where the press is, unless I get ripped off by the local stealership. So my question is:

1) how long can I let this go until it blows out into the brakes or the bearing fries? I am just using it for kicking around town for now while back in town, plus I go to my mom's house which is 100 km away. I was thinking of doing a trip of maybe 500 miles next week. If it blows I can still limp home right? Just bring some extra diff oil.

2) maybe I can just replace the seal for now and get a bit more life out of it until I do the whole job?

 

[Mark_BC]

I should have said the brakes are dry. The local dealer has the seals, dust seal and o-rings in stock and they're cheap enough I'll just buy them. Then swap em out this week. This'll give me some more time?

I rotated the wheel and it wasn't lapping it up. About half the teeth have oil on them. So it's not too far gone yet, not soaking wet in there. I'll replace the seals and then assess the state of the grease in the bearings when I'm in there. Breather wasn't plugged.

 

[Scramble]

So I finally looked in my ABS port and saw this on the left side. This is after the truck not moving for 3 weeks. The right side is dry(er).

I don't have the parts yet and won't be able to get them in time before I go over to my mom's house where the press is, unless I get ripped off by the local stealership. So my question is:

1) how long can I let this go until it blows out into the brakes or the bearing fries? I am just using it for kicking around town for now while back in town, plus I go to my mom's house which is 100 km away. I was thinking of doing a trip of maybe 500 miles next week. If it blows I can still limp home right? Just bring some extra diff oil.

2) maybe I can just replace the seal for now and get a bit more life out of it until I do the whole job?

Mine started leaking right before a trip. I didnt want to cancel so I bought a gallon of gear oil from Walmart. Only around $14. 200 miles each way, I lost around 18oz on the way there. Topped it off & wheeled for two days. Didn't loose much wheeling so I just drove it the 200 miles home. Seems to leak more on the highway at higher rpms. I need to buy a press, she's been sitting since July.

Mine has the new seals but but they dont ride on the retainer correctly. Which is why everyone is doing the flip. I just rebuilt the drums too. Now I need to do bearings & new shoes. argh!

 

[JKD]

So I finally looked in my ABS port and saw this on the left side. This is after the truck not moving for 3 weeks. The right side is dry(er).

I don't have the parts yet and won't be able to get them in time before I go over to my mom's house where the press is, unless I get ripped off by the local stealership. So my question is:

1) how long can I let this go until it blows out into the brakes or the bearing fries? I am just using it for kicking around town for now while back in town, plus I go to my mom's house which is 100 km away. I was thinking of doing a trip of maybe 500 miles next week. If it blows I can still limp home right? Just bring some extra diff oil.

2) maybe I can just replace the seal for now and get a bit more life out of it until I do the whole job?

You won't know unless you pull the drum off, mine was stinking with tranny oil..had been leaking for 20-30k miles probably and still the rear axle had sufficient lube. Replacing the seal seemed to fix it and I was already doing a break job anyway....in fact that's how I discovered the issue

More mechanically minded people will chime in but I doubt it's critical unless your rear axle is extremely low on fluid.

Yeah, my bearings will be next I'm sure...and then I'll look at flipping the retaining ring because it literally just about seals as stock with the Toyota oil seal.

 

[Mark_BC]

Mine has the new seals but but they dont ride on the retainer correctly. Which is why everyone is doing the flip. I just rebuilt the drums too. Now I need to do bearings & new shoes. argh!

Oh so what you're saying is I could actually be creating problems by replacing the seals because of the redesign, if I don't flip the retainer? Because they won't line up with the polished part where they are supposed to go.

 

[Mark_BC]

You won't know unless you pull the drum off, mine was stinking with tranny oil..

I pulled one of the drums off recently and it was fine. That's comforting to know how far you were able to go on it.

 

[JKD]

I pulled one of the drums off recently and it was fine. That's comforting to know how far you were able to go on it.

The rear seal was my first ever repair on a car...no lie.

A couple hour brake job did turn out to be a lot more involved than I'd planned but thanks to this forum I've been able to do a lot of stuff, saved $1000s in labor and had 'fun' :-D

 

[Scramble]

Oh so what you're saying is I could actually be creating problems by replacing the seals because of the redesign, if I don't flip the retainer? Because they won't line up with the polished part where they are supposed to go.

correct, when I did the axle swap I replaced the seal because it was right there. I should have just left the old seal in because it wasn't leaking. I was thinking preventative maintenance when I used to go by "if it aint broke, dont fix it."

 

[mtbtim]

So I finally looked in my ABS port and saw this on the left side. This is after the truck not moving for 3 weeks. The right side is dry(er).

I don't have the parts yet and won't be able to get them in time before I go over to my mom's house where the press is, unless I get ripped off by the local stealership. So my question is:

1) how long can I let this go until it blows out into the brakes or the bearing fries? I am just using it for kicking around town for now while back in town, plus I go to my mom's house which is 100 km away. I was thinking of doing a trip of maybe 500 miles next week. If it blows I can still limp home right? Just bring some extra diff oil.

2) maybe I can just replace the seal for now and get a bit more life out of it until I do the whole job?

You can drive for quite a while with it leaking and be ok. I guess it depends how long gear oil has been surrounding your bearing on that bad side. The gear oil works it's way into your bearing and slowly washes out the grease. Once enough grease washes out and you go for a long drive at highway speeds, the bearing can overheat and fail in a very dramatic way destroying your axle and also gouging the inside of your axle housing. A guy who drove around 3 hours to my last party had this failure. I guess he had ignored the rear axle seal problem for a long time.

If you really want to do this 500 mile trip, I'd make sure the gear oil hasn't made into your brakes yet at the very least. If your brakes have been affected, you're braking power will be diminished and your brakes will actually pull towards the non-affected side.

The gear oil in your picture looks pretty clean and hasn't mixed with the bearing grease so I'm guessing you're probably ok. You just don't want to ignore this issue for a long time. At some point, your bearing will fail.

 

[Spktyr]

From reading this thread, it seems like it might be a good idea to take advantage of a sudden influx of some 3rd gen 4Rs in the local junkyards and pull an axle to rebuild. I have a 2000 Limited 2WD with the single rear brake hose - what donor years and variants can I pull the rear axle from and be able to rebuild the bearings and seals with an eye to storing it then just swap it in should I need it? What years and what variants have what rear gear ratios?