Sequential Shift is BACKWARDS!!!

[1000MPH]

Hey that was a fun read! A lot of typing for people who don't like flicking the stick 3 times in a row but want to flick the stick for EVERY SHIFT. I got used to it because I go from 4H to 4L a lot and that means going out of "S" into "D" then into "N" and back again (dammit)
BTW, it doesn't ALWAYS go into 4th, depends on how hard on the gas you are and what gear you are currently in. 4H is the easiest to prove this.

 

[Ron4RNevada]

Hey that was a fun read! A lot of typing for people who don't like flicking the stick 3 times in a row but want to flick the stick for EVERY SHIFT. I got used to it because I go from 4H to 4L a lot and that means going out of "S" into "D" then into "N" and back again (dammit)
BTW, it doesn't ALWAYS go into 4th, depends on how hard on the gas you are and what gear you are currently in. 4H is the easiest to prove this.

I love it just the way it is too! Must be a northern Nevada thing.

When off-roading in 4LO I use it all the time -> Great for crawling at less than 3 mph. Great for steep downhill. I find I never need the DAC. I have no idea why the TE's even have a "Crawl Control" or a locking rear diff.

 

[cbreze]

It's not backwards to me., I came from a Miata to the 4R, both my only two auto tranny's ever. The Miata shifted exactly the same in sport mode. In the Miata it felt totally natural to pull the lever toward me as I gave it extra gas and went flying into and around corners. So coming to the 4R was a pretty seamless shifting experience for me anyway. I'm always in sport mode.

Maybe it is a Japanese design thing?

 

[commbubba19]

I like it the way it is. Moving the lever forward is an Upshift, Moving it backward is a Downshift. BMW, etc have it backwards IMO.

If you look down, logically + makes you think going forward therefore towards the front of the car, while - means going slower or towards the back of the car when looking down at the shifter console.

Too bad its not user adjustable like buttons on a video game.

 

[1engineer]

Ergonomic and logical control design is one of the toughest things engineers have to do. For everyone here who thinks a control is wrong there are an equal number who think it's right.
Old school headlight switches were pulled towards you to turn on. Now you twist a control away from you to turn them on. What way is right?

 

[NoDak]

depends on how/vehicles you drive.

I've been mostly in Toyota's so the layout is natural to me.

if I get into an American car, all the stalks off the steering column are backwards to me since I am use to Toyota's.

and its consistent with all the different Toyota's so its easy to drive the Tacoma, rav, camry.

 

[THEROK]

it's not only a Toyota thing. My Acura TSX is the same way. it has always seemed backwards.

Porsche 911 pdk same deal except for their gt3. Op needs to do more homework though I agree, I'd want push to downshift.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

When the shift lever is in the S position, the shift lever can be operated
as follows:
Upshifting
Downshifting
The initial shift range in S mode is set automatically to “4” according to
vehicle speed. However, the initial shift range may be set to “3” if AISHIFT
has operated while the shift lever was in the D position.
(→P. 202)

■ Shift ranges and their functions

You can choose from 5 levels of engine braking force.
A lower shift range will provide greater engine braking force than a
higher shift range, and the engine speed will also increase.
Shift position purpose
Shift position Objective or function
P Parking the vehicle/starting the engine
R Reversing
N Neutral
D Normal driving*1
S S mode driving*2 (→P. 201)

Changing shift ranges in S mode

■S mode

When the shift range is “3” or lower, holding the shift lever toward “+” sets the
shift range to “5”.

■AI-SHIFT

AI-SHIFT automatically selects the optimal gear according to driver performance
and driving conditions.
AI-SHIFT automatically operates when the shift lever is in the D position.
(Shifting the shift lever to the S position or paddle shifting cancels the function.)
The engine speed may remain high after releasing the accelerator pedal. This
does not indicate a malfunction.
(Found on Page 201-202 of Owner's Manual)

S-Mode is a selective mode similar to having the "4, 3, 2, L" selections in the 4th gen and other vehicles mainly intended for engine braking and not much else. It chooses what your maximum gear allowed is; it shouldn't be confused with a "Sport" mode or some quasi-manual mode. Some vehicles will either rev limit or switch out of the gear even though it is selected in "Manual" mode to prevent damage to the vehicle, so I would take those things with a grain of salt.

I have always found the "Up to Downshift and Down to Upshift" layout of BMW to be annoying and non-intuitive in my personal opinion; we've been taught from a young age that for the most part "Up" is more and Down is "Less." Elevators, Building Floors, rankings, ect. not to mention the 30-40 some odd years of Automatic vehicles that have been set-up with P R N D (followed by lower gears.) In the vehicles that have it backwards with UP being Downshifting I have always mis-shifted and caused issues; its not a natural feeling to downshift when every automatic made in the last 30 years is DOWN to go lower and UP to go Higher. Now with paddle shifters I have found I am more flexible, once I remember that some vehicles have left and right and others do forward and back; I don't seem to have an issue.

 

[Antman]

Woo hoo, back on topic. Has anyone had those little shift labeling placards apart? I am just wondering if the labeling stays white on the letters black on the background all the way through? IE - does it show a mirror image of what is printed on the front? Pics would be of much help.

I have had it apart (imagine that) and the back side is not a mirror image, but rather a splash of white to diffuse the light. You could cut just the "+ , - and S" off as one piece and flip it around, but it would be difficult to get a clean look if you care about those things...

 

[Monkeymenno]

I have had it apart (imagine that) and the back side is not a mirror image, but rather a splash of white to diffuse the light. You could cut just the "+ , - and S" off as one piece and flip it around, but it would be difficult to get a clean look if you care about those things...

That's too bad. Thanks a bunch for the info, now I can start to try to find what i need to make it right. Nice to know some of these things before you open them up. My T4R arrives at the dealer on Monday.

 

[TheWraith]

I agreed that Toyota's New sequential shift is ass backwards.

And I agree with Antman ... if I can swap the + and - around that would be awesome.

 

[NoDak]

When the shift lever is in the S position, the shift lever can be operated
as follows:
Upshifting
Downshifting
The initial shift range in S mode is set automatically to “4” according to
vehicle speed. However, the initial shift range may be set to “3” if AISHIFT
has operated while the shift lever was in the D position.
(→P. 202)

■ Shift ranges and their functions

You can choose from 5 levels of engine braking force.
A lower shift range will provide greater engine braking force than a
higher shift range, and the engine speed will also increase.
Shift position purpose
Shift position Objective or function
P Parking the vehicle/starting the engine
R Reversing
N Neutral
D Normal driving*1
S S mode driving*2 (→P. 201)

Changing shift ranges in S mode

■S mode

When the shift range is “3” or lower, holding the shift lever toward “+” sets the
shift range to “5”.

■AI-SHIFT

AI-SHIFT automatically selects the optimal gear according to driver performance
and driving conditions.
AI-SHIFT automatically operates when the shift lever is in the D position.
(Shifting the shift lever to the S position or paddle shifting cancels the function.)
The engine speed may remain high after releasing the accelerator pedal. This
does not indicate a malfunction.
(Found on Page 201-202 of Owner's Manual)

S-Mode is a selective mode similar to having the "4, 3, 2, L" selections in the 4th gen and other vehicles mainly intended for engine braking and not much else. It chooses what your maximum gear allowed is; it shouldn't be confused with a "Sport" mode or some quasi-manual mode. Some vehicles will either rev limit or switch out of the gear even though it is selected in "Manual" mode to prevent damage to the vehicle, so I would take those things with a grain of salt.

I have always found the "Up to Downshift and Down to Upshift" layout of BMW to be annoying and non-intuitive in my personal opinion; we've been taught from a young age that for the most part "Up" is more and Down is "Less." Elevators, Building Floors, rankings, ect. not to mention the 30-40 some odd years of Automatic vehicles that have been set-up with P R N D (followed by lower gears.) In the vehicles that have it backwards with UP being Downshifting I have always mis-shifted and caused issues; its not a natural feeling to downshift when every automatic made in the last 30 years is DOWN to go lower and UP to go Higher. Now with paddle shifters I have found I am more flexible, once I remember that some vehicles have left and right and others do forward and back; I don't seem to have an issue.

also to add to this, you can only use cruise control on S4 or S5, if you drop it below S4 it will disengage cruise control set point.

 

[jrandom]

also to add to this, you can only use cruise control on S4 or S5, if you drop it below S4 it will disengage cruise control set point.

Which is, sorry straying off a little here, interesting. In "D" I have had functioning Cruise Control at ~25mph (haven't tried it any slower). My old 3rd gen the POS Cruise would cut out a ~55mph. Which can be pretty much worthless with the plethora of 45mph cap windy/twisty rural roads. Anyway back to the normally scheduled conversation.