So I Hit an Elk...

[ColoradoToyota]

[MENTION=136077]ColoradoToyota[/MENTION],

First, I can't believe the amount of misinformation/poor information you've received here when it comes to auto insurance and the claim process. I'll start with a small tidbit to help reduce some of your stress: when I was a field claims investigator for State Farm, State Farm had the best claim handling rating for several years, except we weren't the "best"... USAA always beat us (by a fair good margin) but they weren't considered for the ratings because they weren't open for anyone to get insurance with them. I always dreaded going against a USAA claim rep because they were incredibly fast, and my vehicle valuations were always beat by them (I'd be waiting for a police report and the USAA rep was already subrogating against my claim and filing for arbitration).

I do believe that USAA has their own estimatics/assessors who will look at your 4Runner.

Radiator supports are NOT part of the frame -- they are quite easy to fix, a lot of times cheaper than airbag replacement. Frames can also be fixed, but the tolerance to do so is limited (and it's usually only done on the rear of a vehicle since the front has more significant crush zones so that the engine subducts in a really bad impact). Also, auto shops have no vested interest in fixing or totally your vehicle; the good ones are usually so busy they could care less (and they are usually busy here in Montana). If anything, if one of the technicians sees your vehicle and thinks it's a total loss, he/she will go to the salvage auction and get it themselves as a side project.

While CCC is someone notorious as a vehicle valuation source, I don't believe USAA uses them. The last I knew, USAA used ADP Auto Source (same as State Farm) that was surprisingly accurate and did not use "rental dumps" for valuations. You will need to document any mods/upgrades, but they usually won't significantly affect the value of your 4Runner.

Each state has differing laws regarding how a total loss is calculated (ie. if the vehicle is 7 model years or newer, it is required to be totaled when damaged reach 70% of the vehicle actual cash value). Since you're from Colorado, you'll need to check with them (usually any local auto shop can tell you via a phone call).

Feel free to PM me if you need any more info or help. Glad you and your family are ok -- property can be replaced, people can't.

PS: It's "trooper" not "officer". MHP has a video on their Facebook page of a trooper I know hitting an elk (full grown cow) on the interstate while on a speed run to bad cash. Trooper Gleich was ok but his squad was totaled.

Thanks - 70% is the number the tow company was thinking as well and my quick math tells me 70% of call it $36k would be roughly $25k in damage necessary to total it? USAA mentioned on the phone that in the event it is repairable, they warranty all repairs made for the life of the vehicle. I've heard many different estimates for the cost of replacing an airbag, from $1,500-$3k. 11 airbags went off, so I can only hope the cost is on the higher end of that range and the extent of the damage to the front end becomes a moot point.

The responding "trooper" was incredibly awesome and had some great stories - we chatted for an hour while we waited on the tow. He said he'd hit an elk in his patrol car at 100mph while responding to a scene and it sounded pretty wild. He also casually mentioned he sees roughly 1-3 grizzlies per week on that 50 mile stretch of road, something I am glad my wife did not know while we sat in the dark off the road for an hour alone waiting for the trooper to arrive.

I think Mike5 was just trying to give me some additional leverage, suggesting that if the radiator supports are damaged then I might be able to make a case that it could be indicative of frame damage. While maybe it ultimately means nothing against the facts presented by the estimator, if nothing else, a fair reminder to make sure I understand the extent of the damage in there.

 

[Woz1976-MT]

Thanks - 70% is the number the tow company was thinking as well and my quick math tells me 70% of call it $36k would be roughly $25k in damage necessary to total it? USAA mentioned on the phone that in the event it is repairable, they warranty all repairs made for the life of the vehicle. I've heard many different estimates for the cost of replacing an airbag, from $1,500-$3k. 11 airbags went off, so I can only hope the cost is on the higher end of that range and the extent of the damage to the front end becomes a moot point.

That's a fairly typical number. Keep in mind that if it's "close", insurance companies may include "possible electronics" and other "possible" issues to go the "constructive total loss" route.

They will warranty any repairs for the life of the vehicle... as long as you own it. That's the usually the only caveat.

Just be glad your wife didn't "see" any of our small grizzlies here. And hopefully the trooper didn't tell you about the crazy wind in the Livingston area -- there have been vehicles rolled by the wind on the interstate (and not all have been 18-wheelers). South of Livingston on Highway 89 there isn't nearly as much wind, but you do get the animals. Highway 89 used to reach border to border but now ends in Flagstaff, AZ; I used to be stationed at the northern terminus of 89 when I was a fed. It's also referred to as the "national park highway" and goes through or near seven (I believe).

 

[ColoradoToyota]

That's a fairly typical number. Keep in mind that if it's "close", insurance companies may include "possible electronics" and other "possible" issues to go the "constructive total loss" route.

They will warranty any repairs for the life of the vehicle... as long as you own it. That's the usually the only caveat.

Just be glad your wife didn't "see" any of our small grizzlies here. And hopefully the trooper didn't tell you about the crazy wind in the Livingston area -- there have been vehicles rolled by the wind on the interstate (and not all have been 18-wheelers). South of Livingston on Highway 89 there isn't nearly as much wind, but you do get the animals. Highway 89 used to reach border to border but now ends in Flagstaff, AZ; I used to be stationed at the northern terminus of 89 when I was a fed. It's also referred to as the "national park highway" and goes through or near seven (I believe).

He did mention the wind, apparently capable of lifting semis (and other cars as you mention) off the road - I actually asked about the wind initially having driven over whatever pass comes into Helena from the west, I had a feeling it was a windy/blizzardy part of the state.

We were up in Glacier earlier in the week where we did a 24 mile loop over two days in the Two Medicine area with some friends and came across a what we believe was a Grizzly from approx 80 yards away (too far to tell for sure - he was lighter in color and seemed to have rounder ear, the more square face, and a sheen to his coat but he wasn't terribly big and I didn't notice a hump on his back, so it's definitely possible he was a black bear) - he ran the other way thankfully, although stopped and stood on his hind legs (which was so awesome to watch) to look back at us before running up a hill. That was plenty of bear activity for her.

Pretty wild area - loved everyone we interacted with in Livingston (and all of Montana for that matter), everyone was incredibly helpful and kind. Do you live in Livingston yourself?

We love Denver, but now that I know all that Montana has to offer, it will be on the radar should we ever leave Denver for whatever reason.

Appreciate all the insight. Will update the thread when I know more.

 

[smokeatrr]

Glad to see you and you're wife are ok. As bad as the 4runner looks it did its job keeping you safe. Hitting a large animal can be very dangerous. I hit a buck last fall It did about 10k worth of damage with no airbag deployment. At least I got a schrockworks bumper out of the deal.

 

[Diamond_D]

Wow, glad to hear everyone is alright. It's amazing how much more "wild" Montana is even compared to Colorado with the big animals and wind and vast empty spaces. What part of Denver are you in?

 

[jrandom]

Gees glad everyones alright (wish I could say the same for the elk too)

Truck did its job.

I have to say, after reading everyone was okay, I grimaced at:
The coffee on the ceiling
The pics off the front make kind of a mean looking face, a bit of a scowl.

 

[Woz1976-MT]

We were up in Glacier earlier in the week where we did a 24 mile loop over two days in the Two Medicine area with some friends and came across a what we believe was a Grizzly from approx 80 yards away (too far to tell for sure - he was lighter in color and seemed to have rounder ear, the more square face, and a sheen to his coat but he wasn't terribly big and I didn't notice a hump on his back, so it's definitely possible he was a black bear) - he ran the other way thankfully, although stopped and stood on his hind legs (which was so awesome to watch) to look back at us before running up a hill. That was plenty of bear activity for her.

Pretty wild area - loved everyone we interacted with in Livingston (and all of Montana for that matter), everyone was incredibly helpful and kind. Do you live in Livingston yourself?

I was stationed near Two Medicine (Port of Piegan), and have been on many hikes around Two Medicine. I also traveled to Goat Haunt inside GNP for work -- very interesting (as was Waterton, Alberta).

The bear you saw was most likely a black bear. If there is no distinguishable 'hump' above the shoulder it's a black bear. [corrected ]

I'm actually in Colstrip, Montana (east of Billings). Another interesting area, but more for the history than the scenery.

 

[ColoradoToyota]

Wow, glad to hear everyone is alright. It's amazing how much more "wild" Montana is even compared to Colorado with the big animals and wind and vast empty spaces. What part of Denver are you in?

Agreed, the wildlife there is crazy. I'm in the Virginia Village area, how about you?

 

[ColoradoToyota]

I was stationed near Two Medicine (Port of Piegan), and have been on many hikes around Two Medicine. I also traveled to Goat Haunt inside GNP for work -- very interesting (as was Waterton, Alberta).

The bear you saw was most likely a black bear. If there is no distinguishable 'hump' above the shoulder it's a grizzly.

I'm actually in Colstrip, Montana (east of Billings). Another interesting area, but more for the history than the scenery.

Yes I recall seeing signs for Colstrip. I'm sure you meant "If there is no distinguishable 'hump' above the shoulder it's a black bear" and I suspect odds are better it was a black bear for that reason. I did manage quick video of it running away and showed the rangers at Two Med but they couldn't determine one way or the other either.

We camped at upper two medicine lake and then did dawson pass to pitamakin pass to oldman lake and back to two medicine the next day which was incredible, albeit exhausting. Needless to say, we were sore before hitting the elk.

 

[Voyager2013]

I think most of this damage will buff out. j/k. Glad you guys were ok. My wife hit a coyote last week. It cracked the front bumper cover near the license plate. Auto body repair guy told her that Toyota sends the plastic without primer or paint and it's very difficult to get the paint to adhere to this particular plastic. Has anyone heard of anything like this? I don't really want to do any kind of "patch".

OP, obviously you will have to get a new bumper cover (and much more) and hope the paint works out good. Best of luck getting your insurance company to total it.

 

[proimion]

I've been a USAA member for 24 years. I've had 3 Toyotas totaled with them: 1 Camry and 2 Siennas. In every case they treated me very well and I have no doubt they will for you, too. I never felt I had to argue. They made offers that were more than fair. I think you can relax, relatively speaking.

The 3 totals, in case the comparison helps:

• My 7 year-old Sienna was rear-ended by a distracted driver. No airbags deployed. I thought the damage was fairly minor and would not be totaled, but the floor "accordioned" and that was it.
• My 6 month old (!) Camry was hit front quarter-panel 35 MPH and all airbags deployed. Front fascia and grill were torn off. My wife was cited for failing to yield on a left turn. Even still, we did not lose money on the deal. Our rates went up but not significantly.
• My 2 year old Sienna was hit head-on at 60 MPH by a distracted driver. All bags deployed and amazingly there were no serious injuries or fatalities. It was an obvious total.

I know I can get cheaper insurance, but after these experiences, I'm sticking with USAA.

 

[4FL]

It really does not look like much damage, but yet all the airbags deployed. It seems it would take more than that to do it, but maybe the pics are deceiving about the impact.

 

[Ray Dunakin]

It really does not look like much damage, but yet all the airbags deployed. It seems it would take more than that to do it, but maybe the pics are deceiving about the impact.

Yeah, I don't get why the side bags would go off in a frontal collision.

 

[farmerjon]

Glad you're alright! This is in my neck of the woods as well - it is a very pretty stretch of road between the north gate of YELL and the interstate there. When I first read your post, I thought perhaps you hit the elk inside the park, but since MHP responded, you were not in the park... I grew up near there!

3rd gen guy, but hope it all works out well for you. Seems like a relief to hear that USAA treats it's customers well, so hopefully it works out.

This thread and what the trooper said really makes me miss the west and the occupational hazards of living out west. I've been driving at 70 mph on a highway and seen deer cross, and I'll brake - one time I hit a deer fawn head on with my ARB at 30 mph. No problem, but that is much less bulk than an elk!
[MENTION=140284]Woz1976-MT[/MENTION] - I don't believe I've been to Colstrip but I've been through Lame Deer and the res - you're a neighbor!

 

[farmerjon]

It really does not look like much damage, but yet all the airbags deployed. It seems it would take more than that to do it, but maybe the pics are deceiving about the impact.

Yeah, I don't get why the side bags would go off in a frontal collision.

Elk are massive creatures and extremely dense - nothing compared to deer in terms of weight. Even a calf elk can be incredibly heavy and do a lot of damage. I suspect that it was like hitting something stationary but that it didn't tear up as much because of the body

 

[mthrtrkr]

Wow, like everyone else, very happy you guys are ok. In order to repair the radiator core support they would have to take the whole front of the car off (part of the frame but technically replaceable). That plus the airbags should lead to the car being totaled no doubt.

 

[Woz1976-MT]

We camped at upper two medicine lake and then did dawson pass to pitamakin pass to oldman lake and back to two medicine the next day which was incredible, albeit exhausting.

Did you get time to visit the "metropolis" of St. Mary and Babb, Montana? There's a general store there that is very reminiscent of the "old west", Thronson's General Store. I know the owner and his family (used to work with him on the border before he retired) -- very cool place. Plus, the trails around Two Medicine are nice hikes. I'm working on getting more time hiking on the west side of Glacier now. Most of the hikes in Glacier cannot be described in enough detail to even begin to imagine how awesome they are in person.

 

[ColoradoToyota]

Did you get time to visit the "metropolis" of St. Mary and Babb, Montana? There's a general store there that is very reminiscent of the "old west", Thronson's General Store. I know the owner and his family (used to work with him on the border before he retired) -- very cool place. Plus, the trails around Two Medicine are nice hikes. I'm working on getting more time hiking on the west side of Glacier now. Most of the hikes in Glacier cannot be described in enough detail to even begin to imagine how awesome they are in person.

The day we came out of the woods in Two Medicine, we drove up to St Mary and spend the night car camping at Johnson's which was a pretty interesting place. Didn't see Thronson's unfortunately. Agreed about the scenery. This shot is along the 3.4m route between Dawson Pass and Pitamakin Pass after a 3,000ft climb. Truly incredible!

 

[ColoradoToyota]

Yeah, I don't get why the side bags would go off in a frontal collision.

It really does not look like much damage, but yet all the airbags deployed. It seems it would take more than that to do it, but maybe the pics are deceiving about the impact.

The trooper and the tow company commented they'd never seen all the airbags deploy like that in an animal collision without a rollover. We hit the elk so square, and it wasn't tall enough thankfully to go up over the hood, that it basically just punched a hole in the front and that's it - granted it's hard to tell in the photos how deep of an impact it made.

That said, I am not sure why all the curtain and side airbags deployed - most of our bruising is to our shoulders and arms from the bags in the seats - my wife bruises airly easily and her arm is essentially a giant welt from the side bags.

 

[ColoradoToyota]

I've been a USAA member for 24 years. I've had 3 Toyotas totaled with them: 1 Camry and 2 Siennas. In every case they treated me very well and I have no doubt they will for you, too. I never felt I had to argue. They made offers that were more than fair. I think you can relax, relatively speaking.

The 3 totals, in case the comparison helps:

• My 7 year-old Sienna was rear-ended by a distracted driver. No airbags deployed. I thought the damage was fairly minor and would not be totaled, but the floor "accordioned" and that was it.
• My 6 month old (!) Camry was hit front quarter-panel 35 MPH and all airbags deployed. Front fascia and grill were torn off. My wife was cited for failing to yield on a left turn. Even still, we did not lose money on the deal. Our rates went up but not significantly.
• My 2 year old Sienna was hit head-on at 60 MPH by a distracted driver. All bags deployed and amazingly there were no serious injuries or fatalities. It was an obvious total.

I know I can get cheaper insurance, but after these experiences, I'm sticking with USAA.

Thanks for sharing - I have had great experiences with USAA in the past as well, although not auto-related (aside from loans). They made replacement of our roof due to hail incredibly quick and easy and they totaled it out despite there probably being a pretty good case that a full replacement wasn't necessary. Every call I have ever had with them has been top notch customer service. As thankful as I am for so many things, I might be most thankful that my father was in the Air Force and as such, I am able to use USAA.