Solid Front Axle Fascination (SFAF): Help Me Understand
- Thread starter RichinRidgewood
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RichinRidgewood
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RichinRidgewood
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Conspiracy
We are going to have to talk about the elephant in the room soon.
Conspiracy Theories
I believe that people are being paid to create propaganda that "solid front axles are better than Independent Front Suspension" so that said manufacturer does not have to invest the money to bring their OX CART up to modern standards.
Just say'n. Could be true. Probably is.
We are going to have to talk about the elephant in the room soon.
Conspiracy Theories
I believe that people are being paid to create propaganda that "solid front axles are better than Independent Front Suspension" so that said manufacturer does not have to invest the money to bring their OX CART up to modern standards.
Just say'n. Could be true. Probably is.
Space King
New member
Now you're just making an ass out of yourself... Well, more of an ass.
RichinRidgewood
New member
Name calling is a form of propaganda.
1) Bandwagon propaganda :
Human beings are a social animal and most of their actions are influenced by society. They constantly try to fit in. Bandwagon propaganda technique works on follow-the-herd mentality. In this technique, people are encouraged to become part of the group. For example, girls are convinced to not to step out of the house without wearing makeup.
2) Card Stacking propaganda :
The term card stacking is originated from gambling. It takes place when gamblers attempt to stack decks in their favor. This propaganda technique is used quite often. In this technique, you omit certain facts to misleading your audience by making a product appear better than they actually are. Some companies cleverly hide unpleasant details of a product and advertise only its benefits such as some companies cleverly hide hidden charges on a product.
3) Plain Folk Propaganda :
You must have noticed that, nowadays, even powerful companies are using ordinary people to advertise their product than using celebrities or a well-known face. Can you think about why do they do so? The purpose of taking ordinary folks to promote a product is to make people believe that a certain product is for everyone and is used by common people.
This method is becoming popular because these days people don’t trust the paid advertisements by celebrities and want to see the real experience of people rather than the polished and scripted experiences of celebrities. For example, Stayfree always shows the experience of ordinary school going girl with its sanitary pads. The idea behind creating this type of advertisement is that Stayfree pad is for ordinary people and every girl uses it.
4) Testimonial Propaganda :
Opposite to plain folk propaganda, testimonial propaganda uses well-known celebrity to endorse their product. In this way, they can easily convert fan-base of that celebrity to convert into their customers. People have a tendency to believe when a popular person vouches for something. The brand uses the credibility of a person to establish the credibility of the product.
5) Glittering Generality Propaganda :
In this type of propaganda, propagandist uses emotional or vague statements to persuade their audience. They use phrases like “we understand you” or “always with you” to create positive anecdotes, which makes products look appealing and results in better sales. Other than that, sometimes propagandists also use metaphors, hyperboles or lyrical phrases to grab the attention of their audience.
6) Name Calling Propaganda :
Name calling Propaganda uses a totally opposite technique than Glittering propaganda. In this technique, propagandist intentionally uses a pejorative phrase to create a negative opinion about another brand. This type of propaganda sometimes starts advertisement war between the competitor brands where they showdown other’s product through advertisements.
Brands may also talk down about an idea. For instance, a company which sells plant-based products may say that how cruel it is to kill animals and they may also dissuade fast-food chain businesses. In a very famous advertisement of Burger King, they have ridiculed McDonald’s big Mac by comparing it with their “Whopper” burger.
7) Transfer Propaganda :
Now, this type of propaganda is a smart way to use the opportunity to project certain qualities of a product, idea, or person. this technique various ideology to get favourable outcomes. This type of propaganda is frequently used by politicians. Most politicians talk about the misdeeds of the opposition party to inspire people to vote for their own party. Other than that, most companies use this propaganda to use the opportunity when products of competitor companies found faulty.
8) Ad nauseam propaganda :
This type of propaganda is adopted by many companies which sell products like shampoo, hair oil, cooking oil, or face creams. The purpose of this type of propaganda is to make a place in the minds of your viewers. You must have noticed while watching television, certain ads are repeated frequently by flashing their names on your face and later when you go for shopping. You prefer to buy that product because you feel familiar with it rather than other brand’s product you haven’t heard about.
9) Stereotyping propaganda :
The agenda behind this type of propaganda is to target a group of segments of the society and their certain traits. Companies include the cause of breaking stereotypes. There are various types of stereotypes (like girls are bad drivers, beautiful women are dumb, millennials are insensitive towards old people) are used in advertising. Hero Honda pleasure, a two-wheeler women’s bike use the stereotype propaganda to promote their bike with the tag line “why should boys have all the fun”, which clearly represents that only not boys but girls can also roam in groups.
10) Appeal to prejudice propaganda :
This type of propaganda works on the principle of exploiting audiences’ desire. For example, in India, girls with dark skin have a low image for themselves and they can do anything to get one shade lighter. Fairness cream companies exploit this desire of unfair girls to sell them beauty fairness cream by promising that they will get light screen tone and hence, get success and acceptance in the society.
11) Appeal to fear propaganda :
This type of propaganda uses the fear of people to convince them to buy their products. Companies which makes products like cement, bike wheel tires, or insurance policy uses “appeal to fear” propaganda to make encourage people to buy their products. For example, the anti-tobacco campaign run by the government of India to stop people from using tobacco products.
In those advertisements, they show the real footage of people suffering from mouth cancer and regretting consuming tobacco. The advertisement using “appeal to fear” propaganda to appeal to people to quit tobacco.
Above were all the different Types of Propoganda most commonly observed in the Business market.
11 Types Of Propaganda & The Uses Of Each Propoganda
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RichinRidgewood
New member
“Solid Front Axle Fasciation” (SFAF) may be the result of corporate greed and foreign government interference. It is nearly obvious that they have perpetuated SFAF through the use of shills and propaganda.
There are contract shills on the internet who propagandize products and services that are with little or no merit (such as some solid front axles and some LED headlight bulbs). Purchasing the services of shills is very inexpensive and typically they are paid per post say in 500 post blocks to create a “buzz”.
Propaganda has been used to perpetuate a lesser quality function as actually a feature, to create a problem where a problem doesn't exist and can be fixed by purchasing a specific product, to avoid the high development cost to add a modern feature etc.
The people who have been affected by SFAF Disorder may be victims similar to the victims of predatory loan practices. They may be due compensation and a class action lawsuit may be in order. Consult your local esquire.
There are contract shills on the internet who propagandize products and services that are with little or no merit (such as some solid front axles and some LED headlight bulbs). Purchasing the services of shills is very inexpensive and typically they are paid per post say in 500 post blocks to create a “buzz”.
Propaganda has been used to perpetuate a lesser quality function as actually a feature, to create a problem where a problem doesn't exist and can be fixed by purchasing a specific product, to avoid the high development cost to add a modern feature etc.
The people who have been affected by SFAF Disorder may be victims similar to the victims of predatory loan practices. They may be due compensation and a class action lawsuit may be in order. Consult your local esquire.
patkelly4370
New member
Solid Axle Derangement Syndrome?
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-E5J-
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Re-reading through this super bizarre thread, and seeing again all the wisdom, patience, facts and effort that went into calmly trying to explain your own "hypothesis" to you, it's obvious you're guilty of using ALL of the exact "propaganda" you've outlined above.
In fact, you have successfully "trolled" a lot of very smart people here... Perhaps that was your intention all along. Why on earth you'd choose to spend your time doing so is beyond me.
You've exposed an aspect of your personal character and your dogged intention to annoy and irritate... You can be seen very clearly now and ignored.
Perhaps this will be the end of it. I'm betting not though...
Personally, I wish you all the happiness you can find in your life.
Cheers.
Jetboy
New member
I got mine yesterday. lol.
Maybe some actual math would help further our propaganda!
In a simple scenario where you have a 72" track width and springs with a constant rate mounted inboard at 48" width (1 foot in from each WMS), and a spring rate of 200lb/in and the axle is bearing the weight of 2500lb. On a level surface each tire is loaded with 1,250lb of weight.
Now let's assume an obstacle where frame remains level and one tire is on top of a 12" rock. So the axle system will be put at a 9.56* angle.
With a solid axle modeled as a continuous beam with two point loads (springs) and supported ends (tires) the force on the tire displaced upward will be 1783lb and the force on the down side will be 717 lbs. (The springs will be displaced 4" up on one side and 4" down on the other, but that does not calculate the ground force distribution which will be a more complex, but not terribly complex, beam with asymmetrical point loads).
With independent suspension modeled as two independent systems attached to the frame without a cross suspension link (like KDSS) the force on the upper tire will be 2450lb and the lower tire will be 50lb.
Of course this is a very simplified version of reality, but it demonstrates mathematically why the solid axle will have better traction in some scenarios by more evenly distributing the load among the tires.
So in this example if you had front and rear solid axles and a similar vehicle with front/rear IFS/IRS, and the same, but opposing rear obstacle - both vehicles would pass the obstacle with all 4 tires on the ground. However - even though all the tires would remain touching - the solid axle suspension would perform MUCH better in weight distribution and as a result better traction in most cases (most of the time on most surfaces lower ground pressure is better than higher ground pressure).
The reverse of this becomes true as speed increases. The higher unsprung mass of the solid axle means there is higher inertia and the result is hitting the bump at speed causes a greater increase in instantaneous force on tire hitting the bump and also a lower instant force on the other side as compared to independent suspension. On the independent suspension the lower inertia of the suspension members results in lower force applied to the tire hitting the bump and more to the other side. Independent suspension has better load balance at higher speeds. The primary reason I think that solid rear axles still beat IRS in desert racing is purely the result of having so much more travel range.
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RichinRidgewood
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Thank you for this however, Yes, the model is too simple. It needs to be in 3 dimensions and at a minimum have the coefficient of static friction and area of the tire surface included in the calculation for each tire.
RichinRidgewood
New member
Here is an example, in the thread below, showing why Solid Front Axles don't work.
Those Fun Loving Jeep Guys Are at It Again
You cannot dive off of a building hoping to land on a McDonalds with them.
Those Fun Loving Jeep Guys Are at It Again
You cannot dive off of a building hoping to land on a McDonalds with them.
RichinRidgewood
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patkelly4370
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My 68 F100 has "Twin I-beam" front suspension.
IFS straight axle?
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IFS straight axle?
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Jetboy
New member
It's not physics 101 where the coefficient and total friction are independent of the normal force (coulomb simplification). That only applies (even in theory) to smooth surfaces in contact with each other. In real practice it's a combination of many dynamics. Friction force between non-rigid and non-smooth surfaces like rubber tires and dirt is nonlinear in relation to normal force or contact area.
If it actually acted like the simplified 101 model - tire pressure would have no effect on traction. Yet it has a very significant effect, which should be obvious to anyone who's ever driven a car.
The coefficient of friction is immaterial to the point of the comparison. The solid axle retains significantly better distribution of load among the tires. That has effects on body stability, traction, driveline loading (reduces load on high side axle and hub), and load on wheel bearings, etc.
RichinRidgewood
New member
SFA provide more articulation and traction and are more simple and durable, so pretty good in rough/slow offroad situations when all four tires need to be on the ground in the tricky situations My 4Runner cannot even come close to that level of traction if compared to my Rubicon. The downsides- heavier and rougher ride, plus sightly worse fuel economy.
It depends on what you call off-roading. If you prefer faster terrain and not much crawling, then IFS is a better choice. I do a lot of exploring and so trails are very choppy and rough and my 4Runner is not a good vehicle for that at all. I was scraping, hanging a wheel or two in the air at times, and generally losing traction on the steeper and rougher trails. My Rubicon (second one) does not miss a beat and just claws up everything.
On faster/smoother dirt roads and on pavement, my 4Runner is a better ride. Horses for courses, I suppose. I have seen some Toyotas with SFA conversions that are stellar off-roaders. We just use the 4R as a daily driver and for mild trails and roads. If truly exploring deeper in the backcountry or doing group runs, it has to be the Jeep.
It depends on what you call off-roading. If you prefer faster terrain and not much crawling, then IFS is a better choice. I do a lot of exploring and so trails are very choppy and rough and my 4Runner is not a good vehicle for that at all. I was scraping, hanging a wheel or two in the air at times, and generally losing traction on the steeper and rougher trails. My Rubicon (second one) does not miss a beat and just claws up everything.
On faster/smoother dirt roads and on pavement, my 4Runner is a better ride. Horses for courses, I suppose. I have seen some Toyotas with SFA conversions that are stellar off-roaders. We just use the 4R as a daily driver and for mild trails and roads. If truly exploring deeper in the backcountry or doing group runs, it has to be the Jeep.
RichinRidgewood
New member
Nope The New Bronco Doesn’t Have It
I have it from a good source that the new Bronco is IFS. The person pawed a New Bronco recently. It’s based on the Ranger.
Ive seen Ford do some really stupid stuff but fortunately they didnt drink the Solid Front Axle Kool Aide.
We will know for sure next week.
I have it from a good source that the new Bronco is IFS. The person pawed a New Bronco recently. It’s based on the Ranger.
Ive seen Ford do some really stupid stuff but fortunately they didnt drink the Solid Front Axle Kool Aide.
We will know for sure next week.
That would be a serious mistake on Ford's part. IFS is far INFERIOR (edited) when crawling in really rocky and tough areas. It is the primary reason we buy Wranglers, knowing they will not be as reliable in general as Toyotas as the miles rack up. It simply cannot unseat the Wrangler with its SFA unless Ford has figured out how to keep all four wheels on the ground like a solid axle, and Ford isn't smart enough to do that. Fail!:nono:
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