Starting issue... Crank and no start.

[BoostedRNR]

and friday i had a strange occurrence that i thought noting of until now; i had just started the runner and was backing out of a parking spot, when it died on me as i was rolling back, and it did the not want to start on me trick.

once the truck is running it runs great, plenty of power, no misses, no hesitation. so this does not seam like an air issue, but either spark or fuel. im gonna check the relays to the ECM and ill probably check fuel pressure. maybe ill build a fuel pressure gauge i can stick on the fuel rail and leave there till it happens again and see what i get...

This sounds exactly like the relay problem we had. It started getting so bad that it was dying while coasting through parking lots. It's like it got a little more voltage when it was revved up, causing the relay to stay connected. It ran perfectly fine once it was moving.

 

[the great him]

Borrow a scan tool and monitor the ECT. It will tell you if you have a problem there. Heck, it may have already stored a pending code. I think it was a po115 or po116, if I remember correctly. I'm guessing you don't have a scan gauge either.

Next time it happens, dont turn the key off. Crawl under and bang on the fuel tank and attempt to restart. Or if you're lucky and you have someone with you, crawl under the fuel tank and listen for the pump. In fact, you should do this with someone while the pump is operational so that both of you can hear what it sounds like. So when the time comes, you'll know what to listen for.

i have a scangauge, and the only code it keeps throwing is a trans temp sensor... bad sensor just havent bothered to fix it yet. everything seams fine that i can monitor with the scan tool, but its hard to catch it when its doing it...

You also may want to consider the ignition switch as being faulty, or on its last leg.

My uncle's 2000 Corvette had an ignition switch problem where it would start, but not when it was hot and when he did get it started, it would roll about 10ft then die. The ECU didn't read the key as being in the ignition so it would shut everything down for safety concerns. I don't know if our 4runners are the same, or similar in kind.

we do not have transponder keys like that in our 4runners, at least not in my 97. everything else keeps power, so i dont think its the ignition switch or contacts that are bad, but i could be wrong

This sounds exactly like the relay problem we had. It started getting so bad that it was dying while coasting through parking lots. It's like it got a little more voltage when it was revved up, causing the relay to stay connected. It ran perfectly fine once it was moving.

thanks. im gonna go through the FSM i have for it and figure out what relays power what, and then start replacing them. i know my starter relay went bad on me, so it would stand to reason that the rest of the relays are getting close to the end of their lives. i have a whole nother fuse block from a much lower mileage 4runner that ill just swap relays over from. thanks for you input here

- [MENTION=2541]02SE[/MENTION] , ^^^ this was the kinda thing i was looking for when i posted this. i know not everyone will always know the answer to all our issues or weird quirks with our cars, but i figured if i could save myself a lot of time and energy chasing this problem down im gonna go that route. and maybe someone has had or experienced this issue before and knows the fix, thus saving me a ton of time... thats all. yeah i know how to track it down, but thats a long a tedious process and not one i looked forward to especially if i could avoid it. i know you ment no harm and i none to you. im just lazy sometimes and like the easy way -its why i bought a winch instead of a come-a-long lol

 

[BoostedRNR]

I'm with you there! I couldn't find anything that resembled my symptoms in hours of online research. These types of electrical problems can take hours and hours of digging depending on the frequency of the problem.

Also, I swear that the security light was doing something different than normal when it wouldn't start.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Do you know what else is on the trans temp circuit, that could render the 4runner useless such as the neutral start switch?

I don't think the Corvette has a transponder key, but will check with the uncle to verify.

 

[the great him]

Do you know what else is on the trans temp circuit, that could render the 4runner useless such as the neutral start switch?

I don't think the Corvette has a transponder key, but will check with the uncle to verify.

That trans temp code has been coming on for almost two years now...

Our 96 GS had one. The keys look normal but there is a all chip in them in the shank itself. Its an early transponder key so not like the kind they have today or we think of like Mercedes and BMW keys have...

 

[K-Tanz]

I am about as new as they come here but as you seem to be open to suggestions I will +1 the neutral safety switch suggestion. As I understand it when these go bad you can crank all day with no luck.

 

[the great him]

I am about as new as they come here but as you seem to be open to suggestions I will +1 the neutral safety switch suggestion. As I understand it when these go bad you can crank all day with no luck.

i have an auto trans, no neutral safety switch... -and no it is not out of park either.

 

[TheDurk]

i have an auto trans, no neutral safety switch... -and no it is not out of park either.

The full name of the thing is Park/neutral safety switch and they are only on auto trans. 5speeds have clutch safety switches.

The park/neutral switches are a frequent cause of no crank condition. It cannot cause a crank/no start like yours.

I would pursue the fuel pressure issue. BoostedRNR may be onto something. The EFI Circuit Opening Relay could cause this condition (by cutting fuel pump power) and likely would not cause a MIL. It's the same p/n as the PWR relay for the windows so you could swap them. Then if the windows go funky you know you got it. This was a frequent issue in the e23 BMW 7-series I used to own as they got past 16-17 years old.

I would keep a can of starting fluid in the truck. Next time it won't catch, spray in behind the air filter and see if it catches then. Then you KNOW it's a fuel issue if it does.

 

[the great him]

so update,

i have dropped the tank, flushed the tank -it was clean, nothing in there other than a lot of fumes(long story thats already been told). swapped the OE pump out for a AEM supra pump made by Aeromotive ( Amazon.com: AEM 50-1000 High Flow In-Tank Fuel Pump: Automotive ). and so now have a new quality pump that is not shorting the motor of fuel -did this in preparation for the coming supercharger... also at this time i changed out the fuel filter. truck gave great fuel pressure and volume, but alas still had the hard start/ crank no start. so i went back to my original thought of the fuel pump relay. just bought one of those from the dealer and swapped it out this afternoon. i took apart the old one and the contacts sure had a lot of carbon on them, as well as the surroundings. so far it has been firing right up. only time will tell though.
what im thinking is that, about two years ago i started having starter issues... my starter relay started going out. -i would turn the key and get a click but that was it. after several times it would finally start. finally about this time last year it just died. i pulled the started and pulled it apart and redid the contacts thinking that was the issue. that worked for a little while, then about 6 months ago it started again... this time i chased my tail for weeks finally narrowed it down to the starter relay(the old contacts i took out were not that bad but sense i had the started apart i replaced them and the plunger just cause i had the new parts). swapped out the relay for a old used relay, that lasted about two months and i was dead again. then i bought a new(from the dealer) relay and boom everything was fine. -this was all turn key and no crank or intermittent no crank symptoms.
then about a three weeks ago i got this problem, the long cranks no starting. i knew it wasnt the started cause the runner will crank hard and long, minutes at a time (i have tried for 90 sec of solid cranking). so the issue was not starter related. i narrowed it down to fuel(with the help of you guys and my gut) and went from there. i knew it wasnt injectors or plugs ect because once the truck ran it ran fine no other issues. so that basically left fuel pump, and to me it was more on the electrical side. long story short i think all the above cranking and hard starting issues i had put undo and excessive wear via the constant repeated ignition cycles on the fuel pump relay, thus causing it to burn the contacts.
anyhow thats my theory. any thoughts on that line of thought?

 

[TheDurk]

anyhow thats my theory. any thoughts on that line of thought?

Don't overthink it. At 17 years, relays die. A few additional cycles will not make a difference. Low battery voltage or excessive draw will cause premature death, but that's about it.

 

[the great him]

Don't overthink it. At 17 years, relays die. A few additional cycles will not make a difference. Low battery voltage or excessive draw will cause premature death, but that's about it.

You don't think the constant repeated strikes built up extra heat that the relay was not designed to take at that location... That is simply meant to be a contact, occasional use not constant back and forth... I'm sure it built up needless heat and carbon. I bet now after taking a small screw driver and scraping both contact surfaces it would work fine. -I'm gonna keep it as a spare.