Steel City Racing: King of the Hammers 2019 Toyota 4Runner IFS 4600 Build Thread

[Charles4x4]

Well, looks like your getting lots of play on all the other forums too!! As well as the standard beating on Pirate!! It used to be really rough in the old days, now its even tame there

Pretty damn sure RST will pull thru, they are putting out some top shelf builds for the Toyota crowd lately.cant wait to see her all stripped down!!

To me- It all comes down to the front end!

Long travel with coilovers naturally! Id run 3.0 coils if it were me.
LSK and Solomotorsports make some wildly impressive kits built for racing

That IFS front carrier, standard Toyota 8"? sticking with an OEM Toyota version or going to do it right?
Id love to see a ProRock60IFS slipped under our Runner. Center Mounted of course
OR----- an IFS housing mated to a Toyota 10.5 that would be F'ing the Bomb!!

RCV IFS Yota axles do not have a popular following. There have been countless issues reported on vehicles running them with most guys even swapping back to OEM toyota CVs or OEM rebuilds by CVJ with chromo inners. (thats what im running now after easily popping my CVs with a front locker) Most reports are on FJCruisers.com and tacomaworld.com
SoloMotorsports even swaps out the Yota CVs for Dana's

Then theres that Toyota steering rack! replace that mofo!

Cant wait to see what you guys come up wither and how it survives getting used.

Document it all!!!! Pics and specs

Thanks - you certainly know your stuff.

Wyatt is a pro and the rear end is covered. But we've got just as much horsepower on the front. Steering and IFS will be stout.

Specifically hitting the diff, we cannot change the space we have up front per KOH 4600 rules. I originally was aiming for a Currie F9 or a D60 center, but both Wyatt and I confirmed there is no way it'll fit. So right now our plan is 4.56 gears (keep them big and strong) in the stock 8" clamshell, retain ATRAC, stout shafts, and a selectable ARB up front for worst case scenario.

And, I'm sure most of you have guessed by now - but we'll be running an Atlas II 4.7 case to give us low gearing even with the 4.56s in the rocks. Still working with Advance Adapters on the full specs, so hold tight on the T-Case for now.

Fortunately our core build team has a ton of experience with the stock Toyota 8" and thinks this setup will be strong enough for 35s running 2wd in the desert and 4wd with ATRAC and the rear locker in the hammers. I just have to be careful when I turn the front locker on vs. winching.

Most we have heard of have been breaking shafts on 40s or 42s vs. the actual gears. While we'll have shafts covered, we know the front diff will be the weak link, so we'll have to be smart.

More to come on the steering, IFS, and axle shafts. One hint here: The steering, IFS Suspension, and Axle Shafts are NOT available on the market today .

 

[Charles4x4]

Subbed. This looks like it'll be a fun project to follow. Hoping to make it out to KOH next year, it'd be cool to see it in action!

This is awesome,keep it coming!

Definitely subscribing to this one. Huge KOH fan!

Thanks everyone! More parts arrived over the weekend, but I had to work on my wife's LX and my 1st Gen 4Runner. Hopefully we'll close out most of Phase I: Engine Performance by this weekend!

 

[snivilous]

Are you planning on keeping the body/accessories mostly stock, or are you waiting on something before you rip the body and undercarriage apart?

 

[Charles4x4]

Are you planning on keeping the body/accessories mostly stock, or are you waiting on something before you rip the body and undercarriage apart?

See the 4600 rules post above. I cannot touch the sheet metal - all stock except doors can be half doors and tailgate can be cut.

 

[snivilous]

See the 4600 rules post above. I cannot touch the sheet metal - all stock except doors can be half doors and tailgate can be cut.

What I mean is, are you going to totally strip the interior, gut the doors, windows, cut the cats off, spare tire carrier, etc. etc.? Are you waiting for something before you start lightening it and removing all the useless items, or are you keeping everything as stock as possible?

 

[BrianSD_42]

Subscribed.

Can’t wait to see the paint job that matches your artwork!

:bat:

 

[Drunner97]

As you probably know, KOH is unique. You have to have gearing high enough to do 70-100mph in the Desert and low enough to crawl, bounce, or drag yourself through the Hammers.

We'll have a Currie RockJock 60 with ARB in the rear with an Atlas II. Gears will be 4.56 - we'll explain why later in the build.

Hint: We're retaining ABS so we can keep ATRAC and adding an ARB in the front only to be used in worst case scenarios. The front is going to be complex - we need strength while fitting the 4600 rules. And RCVs will be involved. I've probably given away too much .

From personal experience ATRAC will be more of a hindrance in the rocks than helpful. You'll be slipping your tires which makes things really unstable and you risk sliding off your line. I found it's limitations last summer when my tires kept slipping and I almost slid into a wall. I relied on ATRAC in most situations but when I needed a controlled climb it became utterly useless.

I just spent 8 hours running 2 of the hardest trails up in the local mountains (Dishpan Springs and Holcomb Creek) this past weekend and the combination of front/rear lockers was amazing. The front locker will absolutely kill your steering so it's just a matter of flipping it on/off as needed between adjusting your line and crawling up the rocks. I highly highly suggest forgetting ATRAC even exists if you're going to run front/rear lockers. It's completely useless in anything but loose and rocky hill climbs and honestly the lockers even do a better job in that situation too. There's a trail that I've run probably 8 times out here (White Mountain) and I had to rely on ATRAC almost every single time. The last time I ran it locked on memorial weekend and it pretty much too easy.

 

[Charles4x4]

What I mean is, are you going to totally strip the interior, gut the doors, windows, cut the cats off, spare tire carrier, etc. etc.? Are you waiting for something before you start lightening it and removing all the useless items, or are you keeping everything as stock as possible?

I'm keeping everything as stock as possible. I want this to look like a 4Runner, not a buggie.

With that said, we'll be doing half doors - junkyard doors with the guts pulled out, but still look stock. Leaving cats. Spare will be in the cargo area behind the fuel cell.

Dash trim will be in tact (it weights nothing) and we'll try to remove as little electrical as possible (electrical and fuel causes the biggest issues at KOH).

Does this help?

 

[Charles4x4]

Subscribed.

Can’t wait to see the paint job that matches your artwork!

:bat:

Ha! It'll be a wrap with sponsor logos incorporated.

 

[Charles4x4]

From personal experience ATRAC will be more of a hindrance in the rocks than helpful. You'll be slipping your tires which makes things really unstable and you risk sliding off your line. I found it's limitations last summer when my tires kept slipping and I almost slid into a wall. I relied on ATRAC in most situations but when I needed a controlled climb it became utterly useless.

I just spent 8 hours running 2 of the hardest trails up in the local mountains (Dishpan Springs and Holcomb Creek) this past weekend and the combination of front/rear lockers was amazing. The front locker will absolutely kill your steering so it's just a matter of flipping it on/off as needed between adjusting your line and crawling up the rocks. I highly highly suggest forgetting ATRAC even exists if you're going to run front/rear lockers. It's completely useless in anything but loose and rocky hill climbs and honestly the lockers even do a better job in that situation too. There's a trail that I've run probably 8 times out here (White Mountain) and I had to rely on ATRAC almost every single time. The last time I ran it locked on memorial weekend and it pretty much too easy.

We're planning on using ATRAC for the desert and hill climb sections. We'll be using the ARB for the rocks - but trying to only use it when we have to.

Note there is practically zero rock climbing on Lap 1 of KOH where most vehicles go out. That'll be all ATRAC - desert and hill climbs. We'll then use the front locker on Laps 2 and 3 in the rocks.

Our problem with using the front locker even more is that we're scared the front gears will fail.

You know a lot about ATRAC. Given the description of KOH laps above, what do you suggest? Keep ATRAC and Locker so we have the best of both?

 

[Drunner97]

We're planning on using ATRAC for the desert and hill climb sections. We'll be using the ARB for the rocks - but trying to only use it when we have to.

Note there is practically zero rock climbing on Lap 1 of KOH where most vehicles go out. That'll be all ATRAC - desert and hill climbs. We'll then use the front locker on Laps 2 and 3 in the rocks.

Our problem with using the front locker even more is that we're scared the front gears will fail.

You know a lot about ATRAC. Given the description of KOH laps above, what do you suggest? Keep ATRAC and Locker so we have the best of both?

Depends how deep the sand is. The problem with ATRAC is that you have to keep it around 2k RPMs for it to be effective, and that's going to slow you down. It also doesn't kick in until your tires are slipping, which the lockers are going to prevent to begin with. I wouldn't be so worried about blowing the front gears with the front locker. You'll shear a CV long before that happens. I spent most of the weekend rear locked and front locker as needed if the rears were slipping. Granted we weren't going that fast, but that's the nice thing about the ARB lockers. Flip of a switch on and off. They engage and disengage quickly. The guys I was out with this past weekend wheel much harder than I do and I don't even think any of them have broken a CV (2nd gen Tacomas, but same front end) Your weakest spot will be the rear gears, but it sounds like you're getting those taken care of. I tore a rear abs wire back in April and haven't even bothered hooking it back up because ABS sucks in dirt, and the lockers overrule ATRAC.

 

[Charles4x4]

Depends how deep the sand is. The problem with ATRAC is that you have to keep it around 2k RPMs for it to be effective, and that's going to slow you down. It also doesn't kick in until your tires are slipping, which the lockers are going to prevent to begin with. I wouldn't be so worried about blowing the front gears with the front locker. You'll shear a CV long before that happens. I spent most of the weekend rear locked and front locker as needed if the rears were slipping. Granted we weren't going that fast, but that's the nice thing about the ARB lockers. Flip of a switch on and off. They engage and disengage quickly. The guys I was out with this past weekend wheel much harder than I do and I don't even think any of them have broken a CV (2nd gen Tacomas, but same front end) Your weakest spot will be the rear gears, but it sounds like you're getting those taken care of. I tore a rear abs wire back in April and haven't even bothered hooking it back up because ABS sucks in dirt, and the lockers overrule ATRAC.

Yeah, we're good on the Rear. Currie RJ60 with a rear ARB Locker and 4.56 gears is already ordered.

We're also good on the front shafts - we have a sponsor there and will debuting newly designed front shafts on this build.

We'll be over 2K RPM in the desert. I think for now we'll plan F/R Lockers + ATRAC. If we're going too fast for ATRAC, so be it. If ATRAC is messing us up in the rocks, we'll flip on the ARB.

 

[zidaro]

I wouldn't even consider running KOH in a mild built rig without front and most importantly a rear locker. I can run all of the Rubicon with only the rear locked, its more difficult but can be done. At JV, your going to want to be able to get thru the obstacles as Quickly and Smoothly as possible. To me, that means fr/rr selectable lockers, or fr selectable and rear detroit (though the housings on the ARB are more stout than the detroits)

When im out mobbing around in the Sierras (aka dirt roads with loose hill climbs and roots or mid size rocks) in the 4th gen., i turn off as much nanny as i can and engage the lockers when needed. Most often rear is all that is necessary. Front for when the rocks get fun or the snow gets thick. I don't see any reason to keep the ATRAC if your running lockers and primary use is Racing. One less thing to give you issue or fail electronically. ATRAC isn't going to help in the whoops or across the desert lakebed. But having a rear locker will.
Not to mention trying to get up a Massive Waterfall Ledge with only a front locker and crappy Yota Traction control- AKA Sledge/Wreckingball or God help you on Backdoor.

And, BTW, Lap 1 KOH is still very much so the REAL DEAL, its just not JV High Grade rock trail. Hence all the rigs DNFing in lap 1, though they all thought they were prepped prior.

 

[zidaro]

and its not the actual gears that i would be most concerned about. Build the front third with Nitro thick cuts and a solid spacer, ARB- and it should be as stout as any 8" can be.

But- those dang CV baskets are fragile!! Those are the weak point in the front driveline.
I know your going to run RCVs. Hope they work out and am looking forward to seeing them cross that finish line under your rig in perfect shape! Maybe then i will consider them a viable option once again.
Gusset the hell outta everything, spindle, LCA/UCA frame mounts, coil buckets, etc...

 

[Charles4x4]

I wouldn't even consider running KOH in a mild built rig without front and most importantly a rear locker. I can run all of the Rubicon with only the rear locked, its more difficult but can be done. At JV, your going to want to be able to get thru the obstacles as Quickly and Smoothly as possible. To me, that means fr/rr selectable lockers, or fr selectable and rear detroit (though the housings on the ARB are more stout than the detroits)

When im out mobbing around in the Sierras (aka dirt roads with loose hill climbs and roots or mid size rocks) in the 4th gen., i turn off as much nanny as i can and engage the lockers when needed. Most often rear is all that is necessary. Front for when the rocks get fun or the snow gets thick. I don't see any reason to keep the ATRAC if your running lockers and primary use is Racing. One less thing to give you issue or fail electronically. ATRAC isn't going to help in the whoops or across the desert lakebed. But having a rear locker will.
Not to mention trying to get up a Massive Waterfall Ledge with only a front locker and crappy Yota Traction control- AKA Sledge/Wreckingball or God help you on Backdoor.

And, BTW, Lap 1 KOH is still very much so the REAL DEAL, its just not JV High Grade rock trail. Hence all the rigs DNFing in lap 1, though they all thought they were prepped prior.

Yes, we will have Front and Rear ARBs (in the RJ60), plus ATRAC. Yes, all of KOH is the real deal! But from what I have seen, most rigs are built for the rock trails and never even make it there because the desert kills them off on Lap 1.

We're different from other EMC rigs - we're building this for both - first to thrive in the desert with IFS and V8. Then to survive the rocks (F/R ARBs, heavy duty front shafts, Winch, etc) and do whatever it takes, possibly even bouncing or sliding over them like the 4400 rigs do.

 

[Drunner97]

Yeah, we're good on the Rear. Currie RJ60 is already ordered.

We're also good on the front shafts - we have a sponsor there and will debuting newly designed front shafts on this build.

We'll be over 2K RPM in the desert. I think for now we'll plan F/R Lockers + ATRAC. If we're going too fast for ATRAC, so be it. If ATRAC is messing us up in the rocks, we'll flip on the ARB.

I think once you get the rig together and start running it, you'll see how useless ATRAC is actually going to be. hahah. Another thing you'll definitely want to do is disable VSC. There's 2 ways to do it, center diff lock or with a switch. For the high speed stuff I find AWD (unlocked center) is more controllable than 2wd or center diff locked so I usually pull my master plug switch (which disables everything) There is a switch mod that allows you to trick the computer into thinking the center diff is on as well which also disables VSC. VSC WILL cut power if it kicks on. I've had it happen more times than I can count and it's really annoying. Another reason I haven't fixed my rear ABS wire. hahha.

 

[Charles4x4]

and its not the actual gears that i would be most concerned about. Build the front third with Nitro thick cuts and a solid spacer, ARB- and it should be as stout as any 8" can be.

But- those dang CV baskets are fragile!! Those are the weak point in the front driveline.
I know your going to run RCVs. Hope they work out and am looking forward to seeing them cross that finish line under your rig in perfect shape! Maybe then i will consider them a viable option once again.
Gusset the hell outta everything, spindle, LCA/UCA frame mounts, coil buckets, etc...

Good idea on the Nitros - tell me more about the solid spacer.

Yes, we're running RCVs (another spoiler alert), but they aren't the set on the market today . In conversations with RCV Engineers as we speak.

 

[Charles4x4]

I think once you get the rig together and start running it, you'll see how useless ATRAC is actually going to be. hahah. Another thing you'll definitely want to do is disable VSC. There's 2 ways to do it, center diff lock or with a switch. For the high speed stuff I find AWD (unlocked center) is more controllable than 2wd or center diff locked so I usually pull my master plug switch (which disables everything) There is a switch mod that allows you to trick the computer into thinking the center diff is on as well which also disables VSC. VSC WILL cut power if it kicks on. I've had it happen more times than I can count and it's really annoying. Another reason I haven't fixed my rear ABS wire. hahha.

Good ideas...But we'll be running an Atlas II .

Do I still need to disable VSC with an Atlas II and ABS and ATRAC? If so, is there a simple switch mod?

 

[Drunner97]

Good ideas...But we'll be running an Atlas II .

Do I still need to disable VSC with an Atlas II and ABS and ATRAC? If so, is there a simple switch mod?

Oh, no more AWD. Got you. Search around here on T4R, there's a couple VSC disable mods but you'll want the one that taps into the 4wd module and makes the rig think the center diff is locked if you want to retain ABS and ATRAC. I'd imagine since it's part of the safety features you'll still need to disable it since the only way I know of is the center diff.

Just throwing a lot of this stuff out there because you'll practically be in my backyard. I spend a lot of time either up in the mountains or out in the desert and do a variety of everything from high speed desert runs to crawling. ABS has almost killed me a couple times by kicking in at bad moments. VSC cuts your power down to nothing (you'll think the rig stalled). ATRAC has been great in sloppy mud and loose climbs, but terrible in the rocks.

 

[Inv4drZm]

ATRAC has been great in sloppy mud and loose climbs, but terrible in the rocks.

I've had mostly the opposite experience. For loose rocks and mud you want wheel speed and momentum, so unless you are already stuck, ATRAC has only slowed me down by applying brakes to basically all the wheels trying to react to whats going on.

In the rocks you are articulating a lot with weight off of certain tires, and are crawling controlled with lower RPMs and higher grip obstacles, the ideal scenario for ATRAC.

I do wish we had a factory ATRAC off switch like the FJ's.