Steering wheel vibration poll -- responses appreciated

[Btmannin]

This info from research, not saying it will work for you.

The front ends on the 4Runner and Tacoma are super sensitive. If you have something just slightly out of whack you will definitely know it on these trucks. If you have a vibration and believe it to be cause be the wheels and/or tires, then you should not waste your time by going to a shop with old technology. If your time is as valuable as mine then you should find a shop with the needed Haweka adapter, a GSP-9700, and a technician that has a clue.
The easiest way to find what you need is to get a list of shops near you that has one. Next call the shops and make sure that they have the Haweka adaptor for your wheels. If they tell you that they do not have it or don’t need it, then hang up and call the next shop. Do not waste your time with them. If they are willing to spend $10,000 on the state of the art road force balancer, and not get a set of Haweka adapters to go with it then they probably are not smart enough to work the machine anyway. An experienced tech may index each wheel/tire.
When you find a shop that has both items make an appointment and have them do a road force variation work up and see if you need to replace your wheels or tires and then get a good old-fashioned balance. The combination of the GSP-9700 and the Haweka adaptor should cure the most common cause of vibration in the 4Runners and Tacomas. This combination will give you the greatest chance of getting you vibration problem fixed on the first visit as possible.
Every new 4Runner I have purchased, immediate trip to tire store, new Michelin LTX/MS. This tire has been updated by Michelin thru the years, new designation, Defenders. Not saying this is the best, just IMO.

I am in Atlanta and taking the advice of a good Friend of
Mine was told to look for someone who has a shop with a Haweka adaptor or else I'd be doing alignments until I was blue in the face. Is there someone around you that has one? I don't care to drive, I'm sick of my steering wheel having a seizure every time I hit 60 mph and then the rest of the truck shaking until I hit 78

 

[4roffroad]

Two questions, did gen 3 or gen 4 4runners have this issue?

Secondly, i might understand that someone might design a vehicle that is very sensitive to tires/balance if it was a highly tuned race car where maybe someone is going for the utmost handling, but not sure why a general use (albeit great off road machine) SUV would be design as such. I also think that manufacturer should be able to find a fix, as stock 4runners of the boat seem to have this issue as well. I am also not convinced it is just a tire/balance issue, as many on this thread have done multiple balances with multiple different types of tires. Thoughts?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[RuskiE39]

2012 4runner SR5 with 91K miles - Have not experienced any instance of this.

 

[Jetboy]

My thoughts on this:

The front suspension design is highly sensitive to imbalance and has a specific harmonic frequency that occurs about 60mph. This has been an issue since the 3rd gen at varying levels. Part of the issue is tire imbalance. The other part is the suspension design that doesn't have a dynamic dampening effect in imbalance. Most mechanical systems tend to have natural frequencies. Ideally the front suspension would have them in various parts that act dynamically to cancel eachother. I think the 4Runner has a few that tend to caue self excited or natural shimmy. It's probably something related to the bushing hardness and the tire speed and the geometry all combined. It's very possible that changing any one of those parts could solve it even though none are individually the problem. It literally might be something as simple as swapping one LCA bushing from rubber to poly for example. It may also be solved by wheel offset or UCA change that just happens to change the system enough to disrupt the building shimmy at that frequency. The fact that it happens so often and happens at roughly the same speed in almost all 4Runners suggests that this is the problem. It's a vexing problem to solve without a lot of sensors and data collection. But it may not be impossible to fix.

I also would start by slightly adjust the toe settings in or out once you are convinced that the tires are balanced well and other alignment numbers are withing specs.

The next step I would look at is the bushings. I'm betting that the bushings are where you would be most likely to solve the problem even though they're not individually the issue.

Again - these are just guesses. I don't have a problem with shimmy so I can't do much on my own to solve it.

 

[4roffroad]

My thoughts on this:

The front suspension design is highly sensitive to imbalance and has a specific harmonic frequency that occurs about 60mph. This has been an issue since the 3rd gen at varying levels. Part of the issue is tire imbalance. The other part is the suspension design that doesn't have a dynamic dampening effect in imbalance. Most mechanical systems tend to have natural frequencies. Ideally the front suspension would have them in various parts that act dynamically to cancel eachother. I think the 4Runner has a few that tend to caue self excited or natural shimmy. It's probably something related to the bushing hardness and the tire speed and the geometry all combined. It's very possible that changing any one of those parts could solve it even though none are individually the problem. It literally might be something as simple as swapping one LCA bushing from rubber to poly for example. It may also be solved by wheel offset or UCA change that just happens to change the system enough to disrupt the building shimmy at that frequency. The fact that it happens so often and happens at roughly the same speed in almost all 4Runners suggests that this is the problem. It's a vexing problem to solve without a lot of sensors and data collection. But it may not be impossible to fix.

I also would start by slightly adjust the toe settings in or out once you are convinced that the tires are balanced well and other alignment numbers are withing specs.

The next step I would look at is the bushings. I'm betting that the bushings are where you would be most likely to solve the problem even though they're not individually the issue.

Again - these are just guesses. I don't have a problem with shimmy so I can't do much on my own to solve it.

Thanks for the insights, seems logical.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

 

[17KT4R]

My thoughts on this:

The front suspension design is highly sensitive to imbalance and has a specific harmonic frequency that occurs about 60mph. This has been an issue since the 3rd gen at varying levels. Part of the issue is tire imbalance. The other part is the suspension design that doesn't have a dynamic dampening effect in imbalance. Most mechanical systems tend to have natural frequencies. Ideally the front suspension would have them in various parts that act dynamically to cancel eachother. I think the 4Runner has a few that tend to caue self excited or natural shimmy. It's probably something related to the bushing hardness and the tire speed and the geometry all combined. It's very possible that changing any one of those parts could solve it even though none are individually the problem. It literally might be something as simple as swapping one LCA bushing from rubber to poly for example. It may also be solved by wheel offset or UCA change that just happens to change the system enough to disrupt the building shimmy at that frequency. The fact that it happens so often and happens at roughly the same speed in almost all 4Runners suggests that this is the problem. It's a vexing problem to solve without a lot of sensors and data collection. But it may not be impossible to fix.

I also would start by slightly adjust the toe settings in or out once you are convinced that the tires are balanced well and other alignment numbers are withing specs.

The next step I would look at is the bushings. I'm betting that the bushings are where you would be most likely to solve the problem even though they're not individually the issue.

Again - these are just guesses. I don't have a problem with shimmy so I can't do much on my own to solve it.

Yeah I've been diligently reading all of these posts for quite sometime too and while I only have 14 thousand kilometres on the vehicle I started to feel that shimmy ever so slightly just after 10K, but it was due to change in tire pressures, I tried increasing them by a few pounds to see if my mileage would get any better lol. After going back down to 35 all around I was fine, for awhile, until I did my 1st tire rotation, then periodically - depending on tire temps I think - I could feel the odd shimmy in the wheel crossing that 60mph area but it goes away almost as quick. I was camping the other week so a lot of weight in the back, I could feel it more then as the front end was unloaded. Once all that weight was off and back to the stock rake - no more since. I'm still on the stock Duellers.

I recall fighting with the stock driveline on my Jeep for years (2000 model), finally had the driveshaft properly balanced at a shop that built their own, joints etc. Rotating masses are a complex thing for sure and there is some food for thought in that harmonic balance idea. Anyway - what I have yet to read is people saying that the tires are wearing to indicate that they are jumping around up front as well but appears not to be the case, imbalance is in the shafts somewhere which may not resonate on a machine but certainly does through the steering column - I can see it being a total PITA for some if its getting aggressive at varying speeds :rant:

 

[skag1T]

+1 on the GSP-9700 road balancing machine. It is the only way to balance wheels/tires on the 4R. And you want to have a process called "road balance". They actually position the tire on the wheel to distribute the rotational weight of the wheel and the irregularities of the tire walls for a smooth rotation. The machine actually tells the tech how to position the tire on the wheel. They still use small weights on the inside of the wheel to fine tune the smoothness of the rotation. It's really a cool technology.

I have a 2018 at 7000mi now, and I had the same issue from day one, re-balanced the wheels on a traditional machine, changed tires, had them balanced a few times with slight improvement but the vibration was still there, typically around 60-70 mph.

Then I found out about the GSP-9700, found a shop that had the machine (it was a Les Schwab) and the tech put my wheels on it, to find that 2 of my tires (not wheels !) were so out of balance (because of irregularities in the rubber walls) that the respective wheels were impossible to road balance properly. The tech actually showed me the wheel spinning, and how the tire (again, not the wheel) was visibly wobbling. I ended up buying a new set of tires from that shop, and the tech road balanced them (he had to swap out a couple tires on one wheel) - problem gone. After 3500 miles, still no vibration.

So lesson learned - go to a shop that has this GSP-9700 (Made by a company called Hunter) and check your tires. Especially if you buy new tires - they will be able to swap out "bad" tires. By the way, the Haweka adapter is NOT needed.

It seems that the irregularities of the tire walls matter for the 4R more than for any other car.

 

[Duuuuuuuude]

2011 SR5 w/160k and almost always get a shimmy @ 60mph. Sometimes it's gone in a mile, sometimes its gone in 5 or 6. Sometimes it goes away right after a curve in the road. It's not a big enough deal for me to pursue.

 

[jcrown7]

I've replied to this before and had the vibration even when my 4R was stock. However, after moving up to 285/70, HeftyFab tube front bumper, 1" body lift, and almost 24,000 miles, the vibration coming through the wheel is even more noticeable between 50-63mph (yes, that specific, at 64+ it's smooth).
Unlike others, mine doesn't seem to go away if I stay in that speed range for a little bit, if the cruise is set at 55, it's a constant movement.

 

[Scott F-ohio]

RE: Introduction

Just purchased a 2018 trd off road, back to shop for vibration with 70 miles on it, 2 days later dealer says it not a problem its a characteristic. Salesman rode with me for test ride when it did it and said , "we will get that fixed, no problem" before I signed anything, now its not a problem! Filled a dispute with Toyota am waiting on a resolution, did not purchase a brand new vehicle to have the steering wheel vibrate at highway speeds, might lemon law it if it cannot be fixed! Planned on keeping this for a long time just like the 98 4 runner I traded in, would still have it if the frame had not rusted away. Anyone know a fix?

 

[Leftseat]

We are on our 5th 4Runner. '08-'12-'13-15-18. All 4WD-SR5.

Only change, leave dealer, go direct to tire store, install Michelin LTX/MS.
Road Force with indexing, all 4. You have to get a tech that knows what he is doing. The Haweka 6 pin had only been used on the '15 and '18.
There are different opinions, lug or cone centric.

The '08 and '12, only two that did not have the vibration, when new, OTD. Others, including this latest '18, only thru the steering wheel. The dealers famous words that they are programmed to say: "Cannot duplicate the problem". "Go drive it, come back if you need to" :redbrick::redbrick:

They know that eventually, we will give up. Sometime we go from Mr. Customer, to: "Here comes that a-hole again".

I cannot comment on the dealer that has corrected the problem for anyone.

 

[outlaws]

I used to have this issue with the stock tires, then when I wore out the tires I went out and purchased Nitto Terra Grappler G2 tires and got an alignment/toe/camber done after putting on the new tires and it's not vibrating anymore. I will be taking a 2500 road trip next week so will report back with any issues.

*UPDATE*
I just got back from my 3000 mi road trip Cali to Yellowstone NP and back passing through all seasons 80F sunshine down to 34F snow and rain in between. I cruised 80-85 mph the whole way with NO vibrations at all.

 

[tacoyota]

The front end seems sensitive to imbalances. I went in for my 20k service and they rotated my KO2s and now I have a very slight vibration at highway speed. I am guessing one or two of the wheels are imbalanced...sigh. I guess I might just rotate the tires to get get rid of it ha!

 

[Rbdt4r]

toyota recommendations

I have a 2017 4runner with new firestone destination LE2's at 20,000. The OEM Dunlop AT's had vibrations which continued to get worse with time and took 4 oz to balance at 15k. Vibration at 62-65 mph continued with new tires. Toyota dealer states to set alignment at max allowed toe in, and especially to hand tork to 83 ft lbs. Tires were road force balanced. So far so good but need some miles to confirm the fix. Now waiting to see if Toyota picks up the tab under warranty.

 

[Tom-T4R]

2013 SR5 with Geolander highway tires, shakes comes and goes Autotire wants to replace my 65k tires at 10k because they have run out of suggestions. From about 58 - 70 ish and then fades at higher speeds go figure... 80 it is.
Balanced and re-aligned many times. :wtf:
... took the survey also...

 

[Teamdonde]

+1 on the GSP-9700 road balancing machine. It is the only way to balance wheels/tires on the 4R. And you want to have a process called "road balance". They actually position the tire on the wheel to distribute the rotational weight of the wheel and the irregularities of the tire walls for a smooth rotation. The machine actually tells the tech how to position the tire on the wheel. They still use small weights on the inside of the wheel to fine tune the smoothness of the rotation. It's really a cool technology.

I have a 2018 at 7000mi now, and I had the same issue from day one, re-balanced the wheels on a traditional machine, changed tires, had them balanced a few times with slight improvement but the vibration was still there, typically around 60-70 mph.

Then I found out about the GSP-9700, found a shop that had the machine (it was a Les Schwab) and the tech put my wheels on it, to find that 2 of my tires (not wheels !) were so out of balance (because of irregularities in the rubber walls) that the respective wheels were impossible to road balance properly. The tech actually showed me the wheel spinning, and how the tire (again, not the wheel) was visibly wobbling. I ended up buying a new set of tires from that shop, and the tech road balanced them (he had to swap out a couple tires on one wheel) - problem gone. After 3500 miles, still no vibration.

So lesson learned - go to a shop that has this GSP-9700 (Made by a company called Hunter) and check your tires. Especially if you buy new tires - they will be able to swap out "bad" tires. By the way, the Haweka adapter is NOT needed.

It seems that the irregularities of the tire walls matter for the 4R more than for any other car.

Very interesting. My 18 with several alignments and balance never Fixed . Now I know to focus in on the balance equipment.

 

[PrettyGoodSam]

2012 TE With 67k.

slight vibration just started exactly at 60 mph and then it goes away if i speed up. it doesnt exist under 60 (for now). i may need to adjust tire pressure since i havent checked it in a bit, so that my solve the problem for the time being. i bought it at 55k and it only was out of alignment once bc i took it to the dealer and they didnt do the alignment that they were supposed to.

 

[tm965]

Very interesting. My 18 with several alignments and balance never Fixed . Now I know to focus in on the balance equipment.

a perfect road force balance only decreased my vibrations. all went away when i moved away from stock LCAs. I'm confident that the root cause of this issue across the board is the stock rubber LCA bushings. As they wear things get worse and out of balance and/or heavier wheel/tire combos exacerbate the issue.

 

[Chilow]

Well...didn't think I needed to post this, but I am now a victim of this vibration. I recently swapped out new wheels using the same tires. Discount Tire removed the tires (Falken Wildpeak AT3W - E Rated) from my old wheels and put them on the new wheels and rebalanced all of them. They marked all the tires prior to removal so I assume they put it in the original locations with the new wheels.

I did not have any vibrations until I went to do my 95k service and rotated my tires. Now I have the steering wheel vibration from 40-60mph. Weird because I don't always feel it. Am I crazy or does it improve over time if drive at the speed that it's vibrating? For example, I don't feel it as much when getting up to 40-50mph, but its more noticeable when I'm slowing down to 40-60mph. I don't feel any vibrations when I'm cruising around 70-80mph if that helps.

 

[DEF4Runner]

FWIW, I did a quick run through the responses and didn't see anything related to what I'm going to offer up, but apologize if it's been said before.

I had the exact same issue creep up on my 4th gen...wheel vibration at around 60-65 and disappeared around 67-70. I read and re-read the various threads here on balancing, steering racks, etc. Then one day I replaced my front brake calipers because one side was seized (the c-clamp wasn't budging the piston) and, as if by magic, the vibration went away. The vibration came back about 20K miles later, only to find out one of the calipers pistons (inside/lower) was seizing up again on one of the NAPA lifetime replacements (same place). I replaced it...vibration went away.

Not saying this is the end all to be all, but definitely something to consider as one chases the ever elusive vibration.