Stupid Supreme Court

[KidVermicious]

Where I disagree is that free speech should mean free license to discriminate in business.

I think it's important to not use the word "discriminate" as if it's a horrible thing. Discriminate just means to choose, and we all do it, all the time. Businesses in particular must have the ability to discriminate in general, or they won't be able to function. We already have laws restricting discrimination based on particular protected classes (age, gender, ethnicity, etc), and that's enough.

If you're suggesting adding sexual orientation or gender identity to that list of protected classes, that's a horrible idea.

 

[Ohcrymore]

 

[ndcent]

I think it's important to not use the word "discriminate" as if it's a horrible thing. Discriminate just means to choose, and we all do it, all the time. Businesses in particular must have the ability to discriminate in general, or they won't be able to function. We already have laws restricting discrimination based on particular protected classes (age, gender, ethnicity, etc), and that's enough.

If you're suggesting adding sexual orientation or gender identity to that list of protected classes, that's a horrible idea.

It's a horrible idea to make sexual orientation a protected class like race, color, religion, age, national origin, etc etc.?

Why do you think gay people should remain subject to lawful discrimination?

 

[ndcent]

what is your definition of freedom then?

I enjoy the live and let live mentality, "free to do what I want as long as what I'm doing isn't harming others" etc. Excluding people and denying services to other humans is harmful.

I also think there are a lot more tactful ways to exercise your prejudices if that's the kind of person you want to be. For example: you're a wedding photographer but your blond haired blue eyed Nascar Jesus told you to hate "the gays" just tell the gay couple requesting services you're booked or whatever.

 

[nevada]

I enjoy the live and let live mentality, "free to do what I want as long as what I'm doing isn't harming others" etc. Excluding people and denying services to other humans is harmful.

I also think there are a lot more tactful ways to exercise your prejudices if that's the kind of person you want to be. For example: you're a wedding photographer but your blond haired blue eyed Nascar Jesus told you to hate "the gays" just tell the gay couple requesting services you're booked or whatever.

since when is being tactful a requirement for freedom?

I agree, there are better ways to do many/most things. but if we are truly FREE, we should be able to do them OUR way. we are not all the same, and we are NOT all equal.

 

[KidVermicious]

It's a horrible idea to make sexual orientation a protected class like race, color, religion, age, national origin, etc etc.?

Why do you think gay people should remain subject to lawful discrimination?

For the same reason abortion should be legal - law needs to deal with absolutes. Abortion opponents can't get anywhere because they can't prove that a fetus is a person at conception - personhood is not an off/off state, at least not that we can define. By the same token, homosexuality is not an on/off state, and you can't rely on how an individual identifies for something like defining a protected class.

If you wanted to make marriage status the protected class you might get more traction, but I suspect that won't be necessary. Social pressure is a powerful thing. Besides, like Nevada says, one of our freedoms is the freedom to be an *******.

 

[wallytoo]

curious how many of you who are in favor of the government being involved in determining marriage requirements, in the name of equality, would be supportive of parent/offspring marriage? or sibling/sibling marriage? the gov't appears to be involved because of the tax implications. why shouldn't immediate family members be able to take advantage of those breaks?

 

[Thai]

Hey y'all, that sheep over yonder sure looks sexy...what about us?!

 

[wake_rider]

Hey y'all, that sheep over yonder sure looks sexy...what about us?!

Hey, let that sheep walk in with you to a county courthouse, consent to a notary, fill in their information and sign the contract. BAM. You can then marry a sheep. I'll be impressed if you can even find one that write its own name.....

 

[BrianSD_42]

It's a symbol of treason and racism. You're free to believe whatever Fox News revisionist history about it you like. And please continue to display it, you'll go far.

The best way to answer is to enlighten them to the true history.

Here are the actual articles of succession. You can read their lists of grievances right here.

Ordinances of Secession of the 13 Confederate States of America

The fact that it was about slavery and racism is obvious to anyone who reads the very short documents of their state.

It was about the Economics of slavery
It was about states rights to continue slavery

The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

Texas
A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union.

..........

And, finally, by the combined sectional vote of the seventeen non-slave-holding States, they have elected as president and vice-president of the whole confederacy two men whose chief claims to such high positions are their approval of these long continued wrongs, and their pledges to continue them to the final consummation of these schemes for the ruin of the slave-holding States.

In view of these and many other facts, it is meet that our own views should be distinctly proclaimed.

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

.......

 

[Thai]

Hey, let that sheep walk in with you to a county courthouse, consent to a notary, fill in their information and sign the contract. BAM. You can then marry a sheep. I'll be impressed if you can even find one that write its own name.....

Hoof print dude...are you trying to say something about my bride-to-be intelligence?

 

[ndcent]

curious how many of you who are in favor of the government being involved in determining marriage requirements, in the name of equality, would be supportive of parent/offspring marriage? or sibling/sibling marriage? the gov't appears to be involved because of the tax implications. why shouldn't immediate family members be able to take advantage of those breaks?

These kind of red herring are always so predictable and juvenile like Thai's bestiality remarks.

God bless.

 

[wake_rider]

Hoof print dude...are you trying to say something about my bride-to-be intelligence?

You shouldn't be in that relationship. It's ba-a-aaaaahd.

 

[RunninInGA]

Members of a particular group that comprise 13% of the population commit more than 50% of the violent criminal acts including murder and rape in this country in modern times. I'll agree the flag is an issue when those hypocrites agree to address their own cultural problems. Until that time, I see the issue for what it is - a diversionary tactic meant to further divide the masses.

 

[Thai]

These kind of red herring are always so predictable and juvenile like Thai's bestiality remarks.

God bless.

God bless those whose panties are so tight that they lose their sense of humor.

 

[Bigshankhank]

Hoof print dude...are you trying to say something about my bride-to-be intelligence?

Take it from me, you don't want them getting too smart or else they start watching the O Network and reading books and telling you to go make your own sandwiches.

 

[Thai]

Take it from me, you don't want them getting too smart or else they start watching the O Network and reading books and telling you to go make your own sandwiches.

Yeah no crap, I have seen that documentary "Planet of the Apes"...I will be sure to burn the books to a crisp fahrenheit 451 degree in our house.....

 

[wallytoo]

These kind of red herring are always so predictable and juvenile like Thai's bestiality remarks.

God bless.

right. so you clearly favor equality for a subset of the population, based on norms, rather than the equality that earlier in the thread you were championing. there is nothing juvenile with finding the definition/limits to one's equality terms. but if it makes you feel better, have at it.

 

[RandyDaytona]

These kind of red herring are always so predictable and juvenile like Thai's bestiality remarks.

God bless.

Yup.

The difference is that a gay marriage has no chance in producing offspring with birth defects or - at the very least - an exceedingly-sub-par intellect bordering on mental retardation. I've worked in Appalachia and seen the result of inter-family marriages, and it goes much further than protruding ears and foreheads. That's why so much of the population there receives disability benefits for mental issues. That's also why inter-family relationships are usually illegal in the rest of the country.

It isn't even in the same ballpark as bestiality, which is usually equivalent to animal cruelty and, thus, a crime. That's just a stupid analogy, period, and is why my 'ignore list' - with its sole occupant - has been keeping this forum largely idiot-free for me for about three years now.

I also don't really see why the government would be involved in this due to "tax implications," as it seems you could collect more taxes from people filing individually than in allowing more of them to file jointly, anyway.

Not just a red herring. It begs the question, to me: is that the only argument (against same-sex marriage) that's left? If it is, it's a pathetic one.

 

[Thai]

Another liberal who bought panties a size too small....