Fantasyridge
New member
Trying to make sense of this. My truck mfg date 10/16, entering vin in where walterego says to there is no open recalls, and nothing about future ones. Do I have to wait till they recall the 2016s or am i good?
Takata bankrupt now what
- Thread starter lakerman
- Start date
Trying to make sense of this. My truck mfg date 10/16, entering vin in where walterego says to there is no open recalls, and nothing about future ones. Do I have to wait till they recall the 2016s or am i good?
3wbdriver
New member
It has been pointed out in this thread MULTIPLE times that Toyota made the fix to new production vehicles sometime LATE in 2016, and there are NO (ZERO) 2017 models due for a recall. Does your 10/16 built vehicle rate as a 2016 or a 2017 model year? Even if it's a 2016 I would count an October build date as a LATE 2016.
wfo9
New member
That website does not help 2016 owners. It has a form at the bottom to put in make year.. but for 2016 it just says it may or may not be recalled and they will let you know in 2019.
I know there was a cut over date... and some way to find out, just not sure what it is. The majority of 2016s had the defective bag, but your seems pretty late. Just not sure as the 2017s were late to arrive and I remember there was speculation it was related to those airbags.
Fantasyridge
New member
Yep read the whole thread, hence the question. My truck is a 2016 right near the cut off. walteregos post on page 2 suggests that you can tell from the vin lookup. He had a 2015 that has no open recalls but a future one for his truck. wfo9s posts suggest no way to tell when they started w new bags.
Was hoping for clarification.
On the link from walterego higher up on the page is a vin lookup, not just the make and model one on the bottom. Thanks for your answer
This air bag issue has been a longtime problem, years . investigations revealed this was known by Takata. how did I get this info ???
I watched the US congressional hearings with Takata executives in DC unable to properly answer questions but , the US government had the data to reveal they knew all about the corrosion issues with the inflation
cartridge .
data shows also , when the vehicle is in a humid environment this corrodes faster , less than 10 yrs.. also miles has NO effect on these since this is a time related issue in a humid environment.
an example is living in Miami Florida. Now that is the perfect place for these to corrode .. south east Asia also a very high rate of failures .
The selection of replacements was done in high risk areas , then when the failures increased and the investigation of the replaced part caused this to blow up into a bankruptcy ...
according to the financial market news , the auto manufacturers will have to pay... if people get injured or killed this will be a big hurt on the auto manufactures esp if they drag this out and more get killed / injured..
some have pulled the air bag fuses as the auto manufactures informed owners in high risk areas to do this .
if the air bag replacing requires the complete dash to be removed , then TOYOTA engineering did a big screw up.
how much to replace a air bag in a T4R ? could cost more than the damage on the impact in a small fender bender . this will lower vehicles value also ..with these defective inflators .
Simpleman74
New member
wher eis the data to support this? 16 deaths and 180 injuries out of millions doesn't seem like a very high rate to me
wfo9
New member
Right, the vin lookup only tells you if you have an active recall. Thus all the confusion with people thinking they don't have the defective airbag.
The form lower down tells you when it will be recalled for those not recalled yet. (which is all 2010-2015 and the majority of 2016s) But, it is no benefit for 2016 owners since it just says it may or may no be recalled. I'm not sure how 2016 owners are suppose to find out before they are actually in the red zone and under active recall. Supposedly, they will all be recalled by 2019. That does no match up with the time given for 2010s, so I can see them pushing that out several more years for 2016s.
And just to clarify, since many people don't seem to get it. The 2010s in Zone A have been recalled since May 2016. 2011s hit that state in May 2017. So well over a year with no remedy. Toyota and the NTSB recommends not allowing passengers up front once recalled. SO yea, those of us that have been waiting and watching this with our trucks under active recall got a little more concerned when we saw that Takata was going under. Maybe it will all work out and we can have passengers again soon without any concern, or maybe we will be stuck wondering when parts will show up for a few more years. Hopefully, the parts just show and the dealers can get them installed without causing other issues like dash rattles...
I don't think it his hysteria or unreasonable for active recall owners to be a little upset for not having a vehicle that is considered safe for their family for over a year with no answers from Toyota. The only thing we know for sure is they are installing the updated airbags in new vehicles and selling plenty of those while existing customers wait.
For those not under recall, sure nothing to worry about for now. But that does not mean it won't be something you have to deal with in the future and you may get to feel some of the same frustration.
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orangeblue
New member
It's basically impossible to know the actual rate of failure, since failure only occurs in the event of a passenger airbag deployment. The vast majority of vehicles equipped with these defective airbags have never been crashed, and statistics say that the ones that have been crashed are more likely to only have had a driver. Given the number of airbags out there, situations in which a failure might occur are relatively rare, although there are still enough incidents to be concerning.
Simpleman74
New member
exactly my point... so much scare, fear and misinformation
johnbt
Member
" so much scare, fear and misinformation"
Are you saying you don't care about the health, safety and life of your front seat passengers? That's what it sounds like to me.
I care, a great deal. I'm not scared, I'm not afraid and I'm not misinformed - I'm simply angry at Toyota for using poorly engineered parts and then dragging their heels about fixing the problem.
Are you saying you don't care about the health, safety and life of your front seat passengers? That's what it sounds like to me.
I care, a great deal. I'm not scared, I'm not afraid and I'm not misinformed - I'm simply angry at Toyota for using poorly engineered parts and then dragging their heels about fixing the problem.
wfo9
New member
Of course he does not have anything to worry about. The only people who really have perspective here are those with 2010s in zone A who have been carting their families around wondering... if something may happen. Or driving a POS minvan or corolla wondering if they will every get their truck back. (some dealers gave rentals initially, but my understanding is that Toyota said no more...) Everyone else is just talking smack.
Mine is a 2011 and I have only been faced with the potential guilt issue for a few months now. I've still let loved ones ride in the front, but it pisses me off every-time I have to make that choice when I know it could be resolved with just a small effort by Toyota. Literally, one less 2017 sitting on the lot would fix my truck. I understand including all 2010 and 2011 units in zone A is about 50k units and that might impede current production... but so be it if it saves a few lives. Instead... they put the burden on owners saying... you knew the airbags were dangerous we tried to notify you... That is BS and anyone here who can't see that must not be human. Now the entire NTSB data may be off and the airbags may be perfectly safe for 20 years in Zone A, but I have no way to argue against their assessment. Using actual deaths and injuries reported is a ridiculous bar. If the design is flawed and it impacts my passenger.. I don't care what the stats are. The only stat I would care about is if they pulled every bag and assessed it. If that said.. 95% are safe for a few more years in this climate.. then I might relax, but at that point, the NTSB would probably change the timeline.
There will always be the people who can see no flaw in a company because of their personal bias.... Toyota has clearly screwed me and many others over. I've never been a fan boy.. but I'm less of one now. They have their pros and cons just like anything else. I'm sick of hearing it is an industry wide issue. That does not matter. Toyota can fix this. The question is how long will it drag on. If parts are available soon.. then all will be forgotten... if it drags on for years... then you are going to see a lot of really upset people considering the 5th gen was pretty much the only vehicle still being sold as new on dealer lots in 2016/2017 with these type of airbags.
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I never said a high rate of deaths but a lot of injuries and then the bag will just blow while your driving because its corroded.. you may not die or be disfigured with scares on your face neck etc... but you will probably sh*t your pants when it does go off unexpectedly ..
call up your congressman/woman see what they intend to do when they drag their feet on this repair of the inflator .
we complain then this huge issue may start being corrected much faster ..
then what also may happen is and has been reported the bag does not activate in an accident..
Jetboy
New member
This. Zero new models should be sold before 100% of existing are fixed. Yes -even if it bankrupts Toyota.
All of my Family's Hondas and Subarus have already been replaced already. They're newer and in the same zone. Toyota is NOT trying very hard.
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orangeblue
New member
Except they're not being recalled because they go off randomly. They're being recalled because when you get in an accident and the airbag goes off, the inflator fails and becomes shrapnel. If you don't get in a crash that causes a passenger airbag deployment, you'll never have the problem being fixed by this recall.
orangeblue
New member
Honda's recalls also started in 2008. They, and other manufacturers, also get/got priority because their cars had defective driver's airbags, where Toyota's recalls are limited to passenger side only (meaning the Toyotas can be operated safely, albeit without a front passenger, while recalled Hondas can't be driven safely).
johnbt
Member
"The only people who really have perspective here are those with 2010s in zone A who have been carting their families around wondering... if something may happen. "
I've been carting people around and one day is too many with a defective safety device. I'll be carting people around until Toyota decides sometime in the next couple of years??? to tell me if the airbag in the 4Runner is defective.
I also wonder if there just maybe could be something else wrong with the airbags - I mean if they can't get it right to start with in 2010 and can't figure out by 2015 or 2016 that the engineers blew the design, then have they really tested them? I mean seriously, did anybody at Takata or Toyota say, "Hey, why didn't we do a humidity test? A good humidity test."
Let me guess, they were in a hurry to make a profit. Let the shrapnel fly, they got theirs. Except it came back to bite them in the billfold.
I could be a fanboy. I bought my wife a new Camry LE in 1986. White with red interior.
I had a 1992 Camry LE. Nice car.
I had a 2006 Avalon XLE for 3 years. Great car.
I had a 2010 Highlander Limited for 7 years.
All nice cars.
Then I bought my 2016 4Runner the end of November.
Three days later I bought my girlfriend a new 2016 Avalon Touring.
After writing the Toyota dealer two checks totaling $75,000 I will continue to have things to say about the way Toyota and the dealer have handled this mess and their lack of transparency.
I didn't have any accelerator problems or any of that floor mat nonsense. They were all over me to have the pedals trimmed, have this done, have that reflashed. Not necessary.
Now there's a serious problem and they're hiding.
John
I've been carting people around and one day is too many with a defective safety device. I'll be carting people around until Toyota decides sometime in the next couple of years??? to tell me if the airbag in the 4Runner is defective.
I also wonder if there just maybe could be something else wrong with the airbags - I mean if they can't get it right to start with in 2010 and can't figure out by 2015 or 2016 that the engineers blew the design, then have they really tested them? I mean seriously, did anybody at Takata or Toyota say, "Hey, why didn't we do a humidity test? A good humidity test."
Let me guess, they were in a hurry to make a profit. Let the shrapnel fly, they got theirs. Except it came back to bite them in the billfold.
I could be a fanboy. I bought my wife a new Camry LE in 1986. White with red interior.
I had a 1992 Camry LE. Nice car.
I had a 2006 Avalon XLE for 3 years. Great car.
I had a 2010 Highlander Limited for 7 years.
All nice cars.
Then I bought my 2016 4Runner the end of November.
Three days later I bought my girlfriend a new 2016 Avalon Touring.
After writing the Toyota dealer two checks totaling $75,000 I will continue to have things to say about the way Toyota and the dealer have handled this mess and their lack of transparency.
I didn't have any accelerator problems or any of that floor mat nonsense. They were all over me to have the pedals trimmed, have this done, have that reflashed. Not necessary.
Now there's a serious problem and they're hiding.
John
so when my wife is in the passenger seat the defective air bag could blow and kill her not me with the toyota ? I will have to increase the life insurance on her .
BlackWorksInc
New member
Something to point out here...
IF an inflator does enter a failure condition, there's a possibility that it could rupture the casing. That does not mean every unit will IF it enters a failure condition, it means there's a possibility. More than likely you'll see out of spec burn rates that could result in improper inflation, duration, and effectiveness in the airbag. Airbags can and do injure people under normal operation; broken bones, burns, and bruises are not uncommon in a full deployment. But if the unit is in a failed condition those types of injuries could occur more likely and at a more severe rate, that's before the possibility of the casing rupturing. All that being said, it's still a safety and health issue, but purposefully toting an absolute for the sake of dramatic appeal gets tiresome and only perpetuates misinformation (well in this case inaccurate data really.)
That being said, so far all the ruptured casings I have seen have been mainly Honda units located in the driver's steering wheel, I'm guessing because the casing is a bit thinner there. I saw one or two passenger inflators that did look similar to Toyota's but not a whole lot of them. I also haven't seen a case of a Toyota passenger inflator casing rupturing so far in my research (it's possible I missed it, but the focus mainly seems to be on Honda's units for many of these dramatic failures).
As for what you were saying [MENTION=138935]catrains[/MENTION], so what has the NHTSA set as an appropriate longevity period for airbags? What has the SAE, EPA, and any other body involved in such development determined is an acceptable lifetime for such technology? Because I'm sure with today's vehicles manufacturer's don't care about a model beyond it's warranty period, which for most ends with powertrain at 5yr/60k in most states. I have not seen much in the way of concrete numbers or regulations regarding airbag longevity or expected lifetime, ect. Which to me signals that while the technology is obviously prone to issues (but does that imply that Takata told their manufacturers at the same time and didn't hide it from them as well? I haven't seen a link there that doesn't sound like borderline illuminati-esque tinfoil hat conspiracy theories), there wasn't a strong establishment of how this could hurt the public.
Vehicles have expiration dates, they are products with a finite expected and supported lifetime, after you've exceeded that expected lifetime your on your own. They also happen to be products that can easily outlast their "designed obsolescence", while I agree that this airbag issue is a huge one and needs to be addressed on multiple fronts with multiple points of responsibility taken across the industry. There's also an unfortunate reality that technology is constantly evolving and it seems that between a lack of clarity in how long SRS systems are reasonably expected to operate after warranty expires without service and use of a technology that now seems to be "good enough, sort of" rather than "great" for SRS systems, we're in this awkward point that say, Asbestos saw when it was widely accepted as being bad for humans. I'm not trying to give an excuse to Takata, rather I'm saying the overall big picture here is that while Takata is the big bad face of this issue, people have taken airbags for granted for a long time. There hasn't been any regulation I am aware of or any real guidelines to provide an expectation that SRS systems should last beyond their warranty period without complete replacement, they just happen to do so; which means people attribute a sense of "reliability" to a system that as far as we plebeians know, are only meant to last until the warranty expires.
~
This is all my opinion, and yes you can say "easy for you to say you own a 4th gen". But that doesn't mean much really, because as far as I or you know my 4th gen could be involved in the near future. Hell every damn airbag in my vehicle could be potentially a grenade for all we know. Also, you every think about the other explosives in your vehicle? Sure the passenger dashboard airbags are the defective ones, but what about the driver's airbag puck in the steering column, the knee bolster, the one in your seat, the side curtain airbags, the pretensioners in your seatbelts? Do all those use the same faulty propellant technology? Is it only a matter of time until ALL those need to be replaced because they too are deemed dangerous? I mean I doubt that only the passenger airbags use non-desiccated ammonium nitrate, it's a plentiful and relatively affordable propellant and Takata wasn't the only one to use it; just one of the biggest users of it. I see a lot of people following and spouting a lot of the same phrases and hype that the news does with some spattering of data, a lot of anger at Toyota and Takata (how about Ford, or Honda, or anyone else who bought from Takata?), but not a lot of questions regarding how this happened, why is there no process to test for these things or even "how long are SRS systems really supposed to last without service? is it regulated? is it even set in stone?". This entire situation sucks and that's the nice way to put it, because while realistically speaking we're talking about a very small statistical number of potentional deaths and injuries; no one wants to be part of that small number. But that's no where near enough to shut a business down or stop capitalism in it's tracks, I'm sure Mc Donalds gets away with more death and sickness from their slop than Takata/Toyota/Ford/ect. have with theirs. But expecting a company to stop their business entirely is unrealistic. Look at Ford, they have a recall for their Transit vans snapping driveshafts, you know what their fix is? Seriously, because they don't either as of yet. They're just gonna band-aid it every 30k (yes, the customer has to come in every 30k to get this temporary fix done every time for the problem) until they figure out a permanent solution. That's kind of the situation here, the logistical nightmare of some dozen brands, hundreds of inflators, and so on needing to be replaced is huge; that's before they even figure out how to fix the problem. What they're trying to do is exactly what you people want "FIX MY CAR NOW!", far as I understand, all the replacement units will need to be replaced later down the line; hopefully when they've had enough time to design a better unit to use and install. Because shutting down every manufacturer of vehicles for a year or two while they figure it out is just unrealistic.
Meanwhile I get in my car, and everyone else's car every day wondering if some random shit is going to just set off every damn airbag in the car. Or if when I go on a test drive am I going to get sideswiped by a semi and killed? Or even better I have to test drive this customer's beat to hell car with NO airbags because they can't be bothered to fix the SRS warning lamp and hope I don't get in an accident that kills me. Hell, am I going to go do a recall on a customer's car and that's when I'm the unluckiest SOB in the world and I get the one inflator that's on a hair trigger ready to grenade?
I mean I do these thing almost every other day, there's a statistical precedence that I am more likely to encounter a faulty unit just trying to do my job! lol That's before I start thinking about things like, "I wonder how much internal organ damage me installing a full metal bumper is going to cause in an accident, or how safe are my occupants in an accident now that I've jacked my 4Runner up on 35's, chopped the body mount, and made this thing more likely to flip in an accident? Am I going to watch my friend or family member die in my arms because of internal organ damage or injuries I might have increased the probability of because I wanted to play off-road and drive my deathtrap to the movies too? Honestly, with how much hysteria people on this forum put towards this airbag thing, there's a whole lot of ignoring how much we've tampered with the safety of our vehicles. It doesn't make peoples anger to Toyota/Ford/Takata/Honda/ect. any less valid, but as I pointed out earlier, I see the same sales pitch thrown about in every one of these threads and yet not one single person bats an eye at the potential safety issue/health risk they might increase in their own vehicles.
Post Note-
I do apologize for the partial rant there, between the annoying amount of fear mongering, mis-information, and general disregard for reason overshadowing good points in these threads and being slightly stressed from work; I figured I'd throw my un-wanted opinion (I do try keep my opinions technical for the most part, but hey I'm a human meatbag too) into this mess of a thread... Bourbon and Coke may have also been involved in this vomitious of words. lol
IF an inflator does enter a failure condition, there's a possibility that it could rupture the casing. That does not mean every unit will IF it enters a failure condition, it means there's a possibility. More than likely you'll see out of spec burn rates that could result in improper inflation, duration, and effectiveness in the airbag. Airbags can and do injure people under normal operation; broken bones, burns, and bruises are not uncommon in a full deployment. But if the unit is in a failed condition those types of injuries could occur more likely and at a more severe rate, that's before the possibility of the casing rupturing. All that being said, it's still a safety and health issue, but purposefully toting an absolute for the sake of dramatic appeal gets tiresome and only perpetuates misinformation (well in this case inaccurate data really.)
That being said, so far all the ruptured casings I have seen have been mainly Honda units located in the driver's steering wheel, I'm guessing because the casing is a bit thinner there. I saw one or two passenger inflators that did look similar to Toyota's but not a whole lot of them. I also haven't seen a case of a Toyota passenger inflator casing rupturing so far in my research (it's possible I missed it, but the focus mainly seems to be on Honda's units for many of these dramatic failures).
As for what you were saying [MENTION=138935]catrains[/MENTION], so what has the NHTSA set as an appropriate longevity period for airbags? What has the SAE, EPA, and any other body involved in such development determined is an acceptable lifetime for such technology? Because I'm sure with today's vehicles manufacturer's don't care about a model beyond it's warranty period, which for most ends with powertrain at 5yr/60k in most states. I have not seen much in the way of concrete numbers or regulations regarding airbag longevity or expected lifetime, ect. Which to me signals that while the technology is obviously prone to issues (but does that imply that Takata told their manufacturers at the same time and didn't hide it from them as well? I haven't seen a link there that doesn't sound like borderline illuminati-esque tinfoil hat conspiracy theories), there wasn't a strong establishment of how this could hurt the public.
Vehicles have expiration dates, they are products with a finite expected and supported lifetime, after you've exceeded that expected lifetime your on your own. They also happen to be products that can easily outlast their "designed obsolescence", while I agree that this airbag issue is a huge one and needs to be addressed on multiple fronts with multiple points of responsibility taken across the industry. There's also an unfortunate reality that technology is constantly evolving and it seems that between a lack of clarity in how long SRS systems are reasonably expected to operate after warranty expires without service and use of a technology that now seems to be "good enough, sort of" rather than "great" for SRS systems, we're in this awkward point that say, Asbestos saw when it was widely accepted as being bad for humans. I'm not trying to give an excuse to Takata, rather I'm saying the overall big picture here is that while Takata is the big bad face of this issue, people have taken airbags for granted for a long time. There hasn't been any regulation I am aware of or any real guidelines to provide an expectation that SRS systems should last beyond their warranty period without complete replacement, they just happen to do so; which means people attribute a sense of "reliability" to a system that as far as we plebeians know, are only meant to last until the warranty expires.
~
This is all my opinion, and yes you can say "easy for you to say you own a 4th gen". But that doesn't mean much really, because as far as I or you know my 4th gen could be involved in the near future. Hell every damn airbag in my vehicle could be potentially a grenade for all we know. Also, you every think about the other explosives in your vehicle? Sure the passenger dashboard airbags are the defective ones, but what about the driver's airbag puck in the steering column, the knee bolster, the one in your seat, the side curtain airbags, the pretensioners in your seatbelts? Do all those use the same faulty propellant technology? Is it only a matter of time until ALL those need to be replaced because they too are deemed dangerous? I mean I doubt that only the passenger airbags use non-desiccated ammonium nitrate, it's a plentiful and relatively affordable propellant and Takata wasn't the only one to use it; just one of the biggest users of it. I see a lot of people following and spouting a lot of the same phrases and hype that the news does with some spattering of data, a lot of anger at Toyota and Takata (how about Ford, or Honda, or anyone else who bought from Takata?), but not a lot of questions regarding how this happened, why is there no process to test for these things or even "how long are SRS systems really supposed to last without service? is it regulated? is it even set in stone?". This entire situation sucks and that's the nice way to put it, because while realistically speaking we're talking about a very small statistical number of potentional deaths and injuries; no one wants to be part of that small number. But that's no where near enough to shut a business down or stop capitalism in it's tracks, I'm sure Mc Donalds gets away with more death and sickness from their slop than Takata/Toyota/Ford/ect. have with theirs. But expecting a company to stop their business entirely is unrealistic. Look at Ford, they have a recall for their Transit vans snapping driveshafts, you know what their fix is? Seriously, because they don't either as of yet. They're just gonna band-aid it every 30k (yes, the customer has to come in every 30k to get this temporary fix done every time for the problem) until they figure out a permanent solution. That's kind of the situation here, the logistical nightmare of some dozen brands, hundreds of inflators, and so on needing to be replaced is huge; that's before they even figure out how to fix the problem. What they're trying to do is exactly what you people want "FIX MY CAR NOW!", far as I understand, all the replacement units will need to be replaced later down the line; hopefully when they've had enough time to design a better unit to use and install. Because shutting down every manufacturer of vehicles for a year or two while they figure it out is just unrealistic.
Meanwhile I get in my car, and everyone else's car every day wondering if some random shit is going to just set off every damn airbag in the car. Or if when I go on a test drive am I going to get sideswiped by a semi and killed? Or even better I have to test drive this customer's beat to hell car with NO airbags because they can't be bothered to fix the SRS warning lamp and hope I don't get in an accident that kills me. Hell, am I going to go do a recall on a customer's car and that's when I'm the unluckiest SOB in the world and I get the one inflator that's on a hair trigger ready to grenade?
I mean I do these thing almost every other day, there's a statistical precedence that I am more likely to encounter a faulty unit just trying to do my job! lol That's before I start thinking about things like, "I wonder how much internal organ damage me installing a full metal bumper is going to cause in an accident, or how safe are my occupants in an accident now that I've jacked my 4Runner up on 35's, chopped the body mount, and made this thing more likely to flip in an accident? Am I going to watch my friend or family member die in my arms because of internal organ damage or injuries I might have increased the probability of because I wanted to play off-road and drive my deathtrap to the movies too? Honestly, with how much hysteria people on this forum put towards this airbag thing, there's a whole lot of ignoring how much we've tampered with the safety of our vehicles. It doesn't make peoples anger to Toyota/Ford/Takata/Honda/ect. any less valid, but as I pointed out earlier, I see the same sales pitch thrown about in every one of these threads and yet not one single person bats an eye at the potential safety issue/health risk they might increase in their own vehicles.
Post Note-
I do apologize for the partial rant there, between the annoying amount of fear mongering, mis-information, and general disregard for reason overshadowing good points in these threads and being slightly stressed from work; I figured I'd throw my un-wanted opinion (I do try keep my opinions technical for the most part, but hey I'm a human meatbag too) into this mess of a thread... Bourbon and Coke may have also been involved in this vomitious of words. lol
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