This is what I was hoping to hear. This whole cant make a thread until 15 posts kinda hindered my question. I'm going to check it out in person tomorrow. Maybe I can add this 4runner to my fleet of toyotas (supra/corolla)
The 3.4L TRD Supercharger Thread
- Thread starter SCRunner12
- Start date
This is what I was hoping to hear. This whole cant make a thread until 15 posts kinda hindered my question. I'm going to check it out in person tomorrow. Maybe I can add this 4runner to my fleet of toyotas (supra/corolla)
So I ended up beating him down to 2k flat
. I am now officially a 3rd gen 4runner owner!
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
So I ended up beating him down to 2k flat
:worthless
I want to see it! That's nuts, he must have not known the supercharger was worth anything.
MarkamisPrime
New member
I got a wrecked 4x4 for $2300
Would have been $1900 until everyone and there mom was hitting the guy up for the truck.
He also had no idea what he had.
He just thought it was a 20 year old truck that happened to be supercharged.
Black798
New member
So Ive been fighting with these 315cc brown top supra injectors for the last couple of weeks. When the truck is running they run great, very consistent, quiet, and lots of power. Problem was that after driving it and leaving it for 20 minutes or more the motor was incredibly difficult to start taking 30 seconds or more of cranking to get it to stumble and start. I tried pulling fuel during cranking with my piggyback, adding fuel, and leaving it alone to let the stock computer learn what it needed to do but none of the changes seemed to make a difference. Last week we got hit with a snow storm that dropped the temps into the 30s which did seem to improve the starting some but not a whole lot.
I went and picked up a 99+ air box and maf at the junkyard for 10$ and swapped it in just out curiosity with no change. I finally said screw it and bought 6 brand new stock injectors to swap in and see if it improved starting at all. Swapped those in this morning and the truck fires right up every time but runs like total shit since the injectors are maxed out and my fuel trims are pegged at 19% all the time. So back to the drawing board I went.
So what are the differences between the supra injectors and the stock injectors?
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/48783710332/in/dateposted-public/" title="IMG_20190920_204832"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48783710332_ee79c9cc0d_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_20190920_204832"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Visually they are quite a bit different but they interface with the fuel rails the same.
Supra injectors
Flow rate @46psi: 315cc/min
Tip style: non air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal type: one large oring at the very end of the injector right at the spray tip
Stock injectors
Flow Rate @46psi: 240cc/min
Tip style: air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal style: 1 smaller oring at the spray tip and a "dust seal" where the injector sits in the intake plenum.
So obviously the flow rates are different, the whole reason we want them, but the sealing and air assist tips are entirely different. What iv'e seen most people do is swap the dust seal from the 4runner injectors onto the supras and run just that but Im not confident this is giving a really good seal. The other issue I see is the air assist tip, toyota used this in the 90s both to better control idle by having a more controlled air inlet through the iac valve and to better atomize the fuel during cruise. After talking to a few others that have had this same starting issue with the supra injectors my theory here is with the iac system essentially bypassed with the supra injectors the stock computer essentially cant control the air fuel mix properly when cranking causing it to flood the engine out or run it too lean.
So whats the solution? well I went searhing to find info ad see if I could find a 300ish cc/min injector with an air assist tip. After searching the old MR2 forums for a few hours I stumbled across this.
Injector flow rates for 3VZ, 1MZ (w/ some 2JZ, 1UZ, 3MZ) | Toyota Nation Forum
Within the first post they list out all the injectors toyota used through the 90s and the one that caught my eye was the blue top 2jz injectors. Denso p/n 23250-46050
Available on amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Re-Manufactured-Denso-23250-46050-Injectors-Toyota/dp/B074P7CRGX
This is a 310cc injector with an air assist tip that looks like the dimensions on it that match the 5vz injectors. Ive ordered a set of these and sent the brown top supra injectors back. Im hoping to install these this week and will report back with my findings.
I went and picked up a 99+ air box and maf at the junkyard for 10$ and swapped it in just out curiosity with no change. I finally said screw it and bought 6 brand new stock injectors to swap in and see if it improved starting at all. Swapped those in this morning and the truck fires right up every time but runs like total shit since the injectors are maxed out and my fuel trims are pegged at 19% all the time. So back to the drawing board I went.
So what are the differences between the supra injectors and the stock injectors?
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/48783710332/in/dateposted-public/" title="IMG_20190920_204832"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48783710332_ee79c9cc0d_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_20190920_204832"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Visually they are quite a bit different but they interface with the fuel rails the same.
Supra injectors
Flow rate @46psi: 315cc/min
Tip style: non air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal type: one large oring at the very end of the injector right at the spray tip
Stock injectors
Flow Rate @46psi: 240cc/min
Tip style: air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal style: 1 smaller oring at the spray tip and a "dust seal" where the injector sits in the intake plenum.
So obviously the flow rates are different, the whole reason we want them, but the sealing and air assist tips are entirely different. What iv'e seen most people do is swap the dust seal from the 4runner injectors onto the supras and run just that but Im not confident this is giving a really good seal. The other issue I see is the air assist tip, toyota used this in the 90s both to better control idle by having a more controlled air inlet through the iac valve and to better atomize the fuel during cruise. After talking to a few others that have had this same starting issue with the supra injectors my theory here is with the iac system essentially bypassed with the supra injectors the stock computer essentially cant control the air fuel mix properly when cranking causing it to flood the engine out or run it too lean.
So whats the solution? well I went searhing to find info ad see if I could find a 300ish cc/min injector with an air assist tip. After searching the old MR2 forums for a few hours I stumbled across this.
Injector flow rates for 3VZ, 1MZ (w/ some 2JZ, 1UZ, 3MZ) | Toyota Nation Forum
Within the first post they list out all the injectors toyota used through the 90s and the one that caught my eye was the blue top 2jz injectors. Denso p/n 23250-46050
Available on amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Re-Manufactured-Denso-23250-46050-Injectors-Toyota/dp/B074P7CRGX
This is a 310cc injector with an air assist tip that looks like the dimensions on it that match the 5vz injectors. Ive ordered a set of these and sent the brown top supra injectors back. Im hoping to install these this week and will report back with my findings.
Black798
New member
So Ive been fighting with these 315cc brown top supra injectors for the last couple of weeks. When the truck is running they run great, very consistent, quiet, and lots of power. Problem was that after driving it and leaving it for 20 minutes or more the motor was incredibly difficult to start taking 30 seconds or more of cranking to get it to stumble and start. I tried pulling fuel during cranking with my piggyback, adding fuel, and leaving it alone to let the stock computer learn what it needed to do but none of the changes seemed to make a difference. Last week we got hit with a snow storm that dropped the temps into the 30s which did seem to improve the starting some but not a whole lot.
I went and picked up a 99+ air box and maf at the junkyard for 10$ and swapped it in just out curiosity with no change. I finally said screw it and bought 6 brand new stock injectors to swap in and see if it improved starting at all. Swapped those in this morning and the truck fires right up every time but runs like total shit since the injectors are maxed out and my fuel trims are pegged at 19% all the time. So back to the drawing board I went.
So what are the differences between the supra injectors and the stock injectors?
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/48783710332/in/dateposted-public/" title="IMG_20190920_204832"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48783710332_ee79c9cc0d_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_20190920_204832"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Visually they are quite a bit different but they interface with the fuel rails the same.
Supra injectors
Flow rate @46psi: 315cc/min
Tip style: non air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal type: one large oring at the very end of the injector right at the spray tip
Stock injectors
Flow Rate @46psi: 240cc/min
Tip style: air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal style: 1 smaller oring at the spray tip and a "dust seal" where the injector sits in the intake plenum.
So obviously the flow rates are different, the whole reason we want them, but the sealing and air assist tips are entirely different. What iv'e seen most people do is swap the dust seal from the 4runner injectors onto the supras and run just that but Im not confident this is giving a really good seal. The other issue I see is the air assist tip, toyota used this in the 90s both to better control idle by having a more controlled air inlet through the iac valve and to better atomize the fuel during cruise. After talking to a few others that have had this same starting issue with the supra injectors my theory here is with the iac system essentially bypassed with the supra injectors the stock computer essentially cant control the air fuel mix properly when cranking causing it to flood the engine out or run it too lean.
So whats the solution? well I went searhing to find info ad see if I could find a 300ish cc/min injector with an air assist tip. After searching the old MR2 forums for a few hours I stumbled across this.
Injector flow rates for 3VZ, 1MZ (w/ some 2JZ, 1UZ, 3MZ) | Toyota Nation Forum
Within the first post they list out all the injectors toyota used through the 90s and the one that caught my eye was the blue top 2jz injectors. Denso p/n 23250-46050
Available on amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Re-Manufactured-Denso-23250-46050-Injectors-Toyota/dp/B074P7CRGX
This is a 310cc injector with an air assist tip that looks like the dimensions on it that match the 5vz injectors. Ive ordered a set of these and sent the brown top supra injectors back. Im hoping to install these this week and will report back with my findings.
I went and picked up a 99+ air box and maf at the junkyard for 10$ and swapped it in just out curiosity with no change. I finally said screw it and bought 6 brand new stock injectors to swap in and see if it improved starting at all. Swapped those in this morning and the truck fires right up every time but runs like total shit since the injectors are maxed out and my fuel trims are pegged at 19% all the time. So back to the drawing board I went.
So what are the differences between the supra injectors and the stock injectors?
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/48783710332/in/dateposted-public/" title="IMG_20190920_204832"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48783710332_ee79c9cc0d_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMG_20190920_204832"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Visually they are quite a bit different but they interface with the fuel rails the same.
Supra injectors
Flow rate @46psi: 315cc/min
Tip style: non air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal type: one large oring at the very end of the injector right at the spray tip
Stock injectors
Flow Rate @46psi: 240cc/min
Tip style: air assist
# of spray holes: 2
Designed seal style: 1 smaller oring at the spray tip and a "dust seal" where the injector sits in the intake plenum.
So obviously the flow rates are different, the whole reason we want them, but the sealing and air assist tips are entirely different. What iv'e seen most people do is swap the dust seal from the 4runner injectors onto the supras and run just that but Im not confident this is giving a really good seal. The other issue I see is the air assist tip, toyota used this in the 90s both to better control idle by having a more controlled air inlet through the iac valve and to better atomize the fuel during cruise. After talking to a few others that have had this same starting issue with the supra injectors my theory here is with the iac system essentially bypassed with the supra injectors the stock computer essentially cant control the air fuel mix properly when cranking causing it to flood the engine out or run it too lean.
So whats the solution? well I went searhing to find info ad see if I could find a 300ish cc/min injector with an air assist tip. After searching the old MR2 forums for a few hours I stumbled across this.
Injector flow rates for 3VZ, 1MZ (w/ some 2JZ, 1UZ, 3MZ) | Toyota Nation Forum
Within the first post they list out all the injectors toyota used through the 90s and the one that caught my eye was the blue top 2jz injectors. Denso p/n 23250-46050
Available on amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Re-Manufactured-Denso-23250-46050-Injectors-Toyota/dp/B074P7CRGX
This is a 310cc injector with an air assist tip that looks like the dimensions on it that match the 5vz injectors. Ive ordered a set of these and sent the brown top supra injectors back. Im hoping to install these this week and will report back with my findings.
Just missing my 96 5spd corolla in this pic. All three of my 90s Toyota.
Already got rid of the rusty side steps, and picked up some oem 5th gen I believe wheels w tires for 70 bucks. Guy also included the lugnuts but I forgot to get them when I picked them up so I need to wait
. Wanted to snap pics with them on, and with my Corolla but I had to lend out the rolla.
benjamin247
New member
Just waiting for Black Friday hoping the URD/Magnusen SUPER Combo goes on sale:
URD/Magnuson SUPER Combo, 5VZ 3.4L Supercharger System - Underdog Racing Development
With this combo, is the Magnuson Dynamic Tensioner Kit still recommended?
Magnuson Dynamic Tensioner Kit for 5VZ-FE 3.4L V6 Supercharger - Underdog Racing Development
There are few other options in the combo (such as URD SuperGrip Supercharger Pulley, URD Tensioner Pulley, etc). Any recommendations on what other options should be added?
Thanks in advance!
URD/Magnuson SUPER Combo, 5VZ 3.4L Supercharger System - Underdog Racing Development
With this combo, is the Magnuson Dynamic Tensioner Kit still recommended?
Magnuson Dynamic Tensioner Kit for 5VZ-FE 3.4L V6 Supercharger - Underdog Racing Development
There are few other options in the combo (such as URD SuperGrip Supercharger Pulley, URD Tensioner Pulley, etc). Any recommendations on what other options should be added?
Thanks in advance!
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
Yeah Gadget normally does a black friday sale, usually between 5% to 10% off. The kit already includes the dynamic tensioner, the static plate tensioner isn't being produced anymore so you don't have to worry about that one.
As far as the pulleys go, they are not necessary but are completely optional. The URD tensioner pulley is only for those who do rally racing, a normal on-road vehicle will not see the kinds of g's needed to get the belt to slip off the dynamic tensioner.
The URD Supergrip Supercharger pulleys increase performance by adding more airflow and boost pressure but also need more fuel. The stock map sent with the URD 7th injector kit may not be correct and need a tune. However, to tune it you must have a wideband oxygen sensor like the AEM UEGO sensor installed into the exhaust and mounted. Then either road tune it or take it to a tuning shop to get the right air/fuel ratio that is safe for your 4Runner. See how complicated that just got? You can always swap the pulleys out down the road, I'd recommend sticking with the stock Magnuson pulley for now. They are usually on sale for $99 anyway.
The URD Supergrip Crank Shaft Pulley is totally different though. It is not an underdrive pulley so it'll spin your accessories just like the stock crank pulley. However, it's significantly lighter, enough to allow your engine to "accelerate" faster even though the pulley itself adds 0 HP. By reducing rotational mass though, it saves some of the power lost to drivetrain and other components. I have one installed and it made it more responsive in the low RPM's. However, if I had measured it on a dyno I'd guess I gained around +5-7 HP. I noticed more of a difference changing out my air filter which gained a peak of +9 HP.
MarkamisPrime
New member
Anyone have an idea of what this is
I’ve never seen it before on another runner
Connects to the intake and fuel return line ?
Just wondering if it would be worth swapping it over or just deleting it. ?
4Reak Show
New member
Anyone have an idea of what this is
I’ve never seen it before on another runner
Connects to the intake and fuel return line ?
Just wondering if it would be worth swapping it over or just deleting it. ?
Guess would be an additional fuel pressure regulator. To my knowledge, earlier systems by TRD didn't know the stock FPR could increase fuel pressure under boost (pressure) So basically, stock pressure regulator connects to a boost/vacuum port and it works just fine. I know on the later (black) SC's that's how it gets plumbed. Shouldn't be any different overall on older (grey) ones.
Wanted to show where I read the thing about the regulators. Fuel Delivery
If you scroll down pretty far he talks about fuel and such and how he moves the pressure regulator vacuum hose to a boost port and it increased his fuel pressure naturally.
Last edited:
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
Somehow I missed your post a few days ago. Very insightful. To throw a wrench in your theory, I have a 98, had the exact same injectors that I swapped for brown tops, and they worked perfectly fine. HOWEVER my piggyback would cause long cranks and hard starts. After I did my engine swap though it worked fine and has never done it since.
I think it's more to do with how it interfaces with the crank sensor and not the injectors.
I do hope the air-assist Supra injectors work out. I knew of them previously but didn't buy them due to price. Let me know if they are 2 or 4 hole injectors.
benjamin247
New member
Super helpful. Thanks!!!
Black798
New member
The reason it took me so long to pull the plug in the brown tops was your truck haha. I kept telling myself "they work for everyone else they will get figured out" but it never got any better. My piggyback isn't connected to the cam or crank sensors and some the starting was totally solved by going back to stock injectors it's a pretty good sign that was the cause. I really hope these new injectors work because it runs so much better on the bigger injectors. I thought it might also be my cat since the guts of it are floating around in the can but I think that's more affecting my bad mileage
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
I guess your truck really didn't like them. It's so odd since they are a well known fuel upgrade that's been around for years, I mean even Gadget had them in his 4Runner before he started selling the kits.
How does your piggyback adjust ignition timing? Is it done via the igniter circuit instead of the crank sensor?
Smog-guy707
New member
I am running the Supra injectors with a stock ecu
Zero drivability/ starting problems
Runs like a beast!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Zero drivability/ starting problems
Runs like a beast!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
BulletToothTony
New member
Hey guys figured I’d post in here since this thread seems pretty active. I just picked up a 2000 limited with the second gen SC, 7th injector and 2.2 pulley. New to the SC world so is there anything I should be on the look out for? Are there different tunes for the 3.4 or is everything just based off the stock flashed ecu? What kind of gas mileage is typical with these installed? I drive with a light foot normally, I know this isn’t a race car. Also the PO didn’t install a boost gauge, is one needed or not really?
gamefreakgc
Elite Member
Welcome to the club!
These superchargers are pretty easy, slap it on and go. Having the 2.2 pulley does change that a bit but depending on what elevation you are at you may not need to change the tune much at all. There are different tunes but the Toyota ECU cannot be flashed so it has to be done via the 7th Injectors software and interfacing with the box in or behind your glovebox.
Boost gauge is just for show, wideband oxygen sensor with an air/fuel ratio gauge is a must if you want to tune it though. No way to do it if you have no idea how rich or lean you are running. Seeing how much boost you are pushing is irrelevant for a S/C vehicle (not like a turbo) except for tuning purposes, but your air/fuel ratio is critical for making sure you're not running lean when you start modifying.
Rebuilt supercharger...now the pulley wont go on
So I got a used gray top 1st gen blower, rebuilt it with the nose cone and rear bearings replacement, and did the mod to the cover.
It all pressed apart great, and when putting it back together, First potential issue I noticed that the nose cone bearings dont "press" into the housing, but more just fell in, and I could easily pull them out with my hand. I figure ill just put it all together and hope itll just tighten up when I finish, so I put the shaft back together and finish assembly.
Now...the shaft is tight on the bearings, however the shaft moves in and out easily within the housing...the whole bearing moves within the case in and out.
Also...thinking this would tighten up with the seal in place and snap ring...nope...
And finally...the pulley rubs against the housing when torqued down. The S/C wont spin at all with the pulley on...and the shaft doesnt seem to pull any more forward when I try to bring it further forward.
Any input? Maybe I missed a washer somewhere? Maybe I got fluke bearings?
Here are the pictures, you can see how far the shaft moves in and out, and the pulley hitting the housing
Thanks!
So I got a used gray top 1st gen blower, rebuilt it with the nose cone and rear bearings replacement, and did the mod to the cover.
It all pressed apart great, and when putting it back together, First potential issue I noticed that the nose cone bearings dont "press" into the housing, but more just fell in, and I could easily pull them out with my hand. I figure ill just put it all together and hope itll just tighten up when I finish, so I put the shaft back together and finish assembly.
Now...the shaft is tight on the bearings, however the shaft moves in and out easily within the housing...the whole bearing moves within the case in and out.
Also...thinking this would tighten up with the seal in place and snap ring...nope...
And finally...the pulley rubs against the housing when torqued down. The S/C wont spin at all with the pulley on...and the shaft doesnt seem to pull any more forward when I try to bring it further forward.
Any input? Maybe I missed a washer somewhere? Maybe I got fluke bearings?
Here are the pictures, you can see how far the shaft moves in and out, and the pulley hitting the housing
Thanks!
Attachments
Last edited:
