The Ever Popular P1300 CEL

[ZionXIX]

The Ever Popular P1300 CEL (Solved)

Original Post:

So lately I have been troubleshooting a "Dying at idle" problem. I replaced spark plugs. Cleaned the throttle body, the idle are controller, and the Mass airflow sensor.
I had a CEL since the first idle death. Until today I did not have a code, so up until this point I have just been eliminating things through trial and Error. My scanner picked up 4 codes: 2 MAF codes, 1 Neutral safety switch code, and P1300 --> ignitor circuit fault (bank 1). Since I cleaned several parts, I cleared the codes. She started, ran for 5 mins and died again. Rescanned and only found the P1300 again. Where do I even start with this code? I've already replaced plugs. I just got new NGK wires in and have not installed yet. How would I test the coil packs or the actual ignition? That is an expensive part I would like to avoid replacing. Any thoughts would be welcome.

-z


Added summary for solution:

This is a summary for all those afflicted by the cursed P1300 CEL who find themselves wandering the endless sea that is the internet. If you find yourself pouring through page after page, forum after forum of dead end threads, rest assured that at least here there is one thread that solved the P1300.

I began by having a weird issue where the vehicle would die at idle and this progressed to only running for a few seconds and then dying. I found several issue that while they could have contributed to the problem, ultimately they were just distracting me from the real problem. I wasted a lot of time and money replacing the igniter, the coil packs, and finally the ECU. I tried to repair the igniter since mine has loose wires. I destroyed my connector with my subpar soldering skills. Bought a used connector on Ebay. Tried test after test with no results. While reading the repair manual, one of the steps is to rule out the ECU with some voltage test while cranking or some nonsense. I pulled my ECU out and visually inspected it found several blown capacitors and some of the electrolytic fluid in the capacitors destroyed parts of the PCB board. I tried to repair it. I have not been successful.....yet. I dont recommend going this route.

So the Factory Service Manual has a section just for this code. You definitely need a multimeter to test the various components. The easiest thing to do is swap out the igniter or the ECU with a friend and see if that fixes your problem. Dont buy these parts unless you are sure or out of other option as they are very expensive. In the mean time you can test the following components according to the FSM:

Spark plugs
Wires
Ignition coil packs
Crankshaft position sensor
Check continuity for the wires between the igniter, ECU, and Coil packs

Checking and cleaning the MAF is not a bad idea. Unfortunately there is no way to test the igniter itself. All you can do is test the components around it and by process of elimination decided whether or not it needs replacing. I fortunate enough to find a cheap used one on Ebay but ended up not needing it.

You have use the Factory Service Manual for your year 4runner, I found major differences in the ECUs between the various years. Some people have found simple fixes like loose wires or bad crankshaft position sensors. I was not so lucky and ended up replacing the ECU with a used one on Ebay.

My suggestions are to follow the troubleshooting guide in the manual for the P1300 code. If you are like me and could not do the one that require an oscilloscope than my next suggestion is to find a friend with the same year and model of 4runner and swap out the igniter and/or ECU to test those. If I had access to that I would have solved this months ago.

Lastly, dont be like me. Dont try to repair your own circuit board. Good luck.

 

[ZionXIX]

I would like to correct my previous post. I just got my code scanner yesterday. I've had a CEL the whole time. Without the scanner I just started replacing stuff that was on my list anyway.

I installed the new NGK wires this morning. Cleared codes. Ran perfect for 3 mins. Dies with same P1300 code.

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[ZionXIX]

So I've been trying to research the ignition system in regards to this P1300 code. I would like to explain my understanding of the order of operations leading up to this code. Please correct any discrepancies.

Turn ignition key --> ECU --> Ignitor Assembly --> Coil packs --> Sparks plugs --> ignition

Confirmation of ignition from Coil packs --> ignitor --> ECU

Successful confirmation = Keep running
Unsuccessful confirmation = Stop engine

Assuming my logic is correct, how do I go about finding the breakdown in the system?

I noticed that 2 of my coil packs are not OEM, they don't have the toyota denso markings. But the vehicle runs great before the ECU cuts it off.

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[jgue467]

So no mis-firing cylinders in cel?

Have you read thru the inspection procedure for a p1300 in the FSM?

(After spark plug check out next step is to confirm ECM to ignitor connectivity.) :cowboy:

 

[ZionXIX]

So no mis-firing cylinders in cel?

Have you read thru the inspection procedure for a p1300 in the FSM?

(After spark plug check out next step is to confirm ECM to ignitor connectivity.) :cowboy:

The only codes I'm getting are the P1300. I don't know what the misfire codes are. I also don't know what a misfire sounds like. The engine just runs and sounds great until the CEL comes on. I can't imagine it's misfiring. I have no idea how to check for ecm to ignitor connectivity. Does that involve checking individual wire continuity between the ignitor and ECM?

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[ZionXIX]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/20243-igniter-failure.html

I found this thread where they mention checking a black/yellow wire between the ignitor and the ecm. Is that what you are referring to?

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[jgue467]

...
I can't imagine it's misfiring. I have no idea how to check for ecm to ignitor connectivity. Does that involve checking individual wire continuity between the ignitor and ECM?

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Yes it does along with other tests. You Need an FSM if you want to debug this correctly. There are only 8 functions to check for the whole p1300 issue. There maybe a free copy of an FSM on this site, not sure. If not PM me and I'll send you a link to one.

Update - just saw link above the ignitor, that's basiscally what the FSM states to validate. Go in order. Luck.

 

[ZionXIX]

Update - just saw link above the ignitor, that's basiscally what the FSM states to validate. Go in order. Luck.

I'm not I understand what "link above the ignitor" means?
My plan was to check the continuity for the IGF circuit running between the ignitor and the ECU. Another thread stated pin number 12 on the E9 plug is the ignitor wire.
Also I would like to check the coil packs restiance but am unsure of where to touch the leads. Do I remove the wire harness and check there? Or do I need to check the coil the makes contact with the spark plug?

First step is to get a multimeter.[emoji53]


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[jgue467]

Now that i look closer at post #6 above that has the 'Ignitor Failure' link, the info may be accurate at a high level but its not all the detail the FSM provides.

So check this link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B20d86M4DqTrVU5wUHhyUVN4OWM

on pages 308 on cover the diagnotics for a p1300. Read over it and decide it you want to tackle the job. Luck.

 

[ZionXIX]

Now that i look closer at post #6 above that has the 'Ignitor Failure' link, the info may be accurate at a high level but its not all the detail the FSM provides.

So check this link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B20d86M4DqTrVU5wUHhyUVN4OWM

on pages 308 on cover the diagnotics for a p1300. Read over it and decide it you want to tackle the job. Luck.

I finally got someone to loan me their multimeter for the weekend. Thanks for the FSM link. One difference I found is this FSM is for a 2002 and I drive a 1996. The ECU for the 02 has 5 wire looms, my 96 ECU has 4 wire looms.
I found another thread that said to check the #12 pin on E9 of the ECU for the Igniter problem. I assume all other steps are the same regardless of model year.

I tested the ECU, Igniter connector and the coil packs.
I skipped testing the Plugs/wires since they are brand new installed last week with OEM plugs and NGK wires.
Here are my results. I welcome any help with interpretation of the results.

ECU E9 slot, pin #12 = 4.8 volts, FSM range 4.5 - 5.5 volts

Igniter Cable pin #9 = 12.2 volts, FSM range 9 - 14 volts

Coil packs starting from the front of the engine moving toward the back. Everything was disconnected and the coil packs removed for this test.
All tests were conducted while the engine was cold since it hasnt been started in 2 days. I have posted the FSM cold ranges next to each result.

Primary resistance is at the connector on the coil packs
Secondary resistance is between the "High tension cord" and where the spark plug makes contact with the spark plug

Coil pack #1
Primary Resistance = 1.2 ohms, FSM Range = 0.67 - 1.05 ohms
Secondary Resistance = 12.2 k ohms, FSM Range = 9.3 - 16.0 ohms
Coil pack #2
Primary Resistance = 1.1 ohms, FSM Range = 0.67 - 1.05 ohms
Secondary Resistance = 13.1 k ohms, FSM Range = 9.3 - 16.0 ohms
Coil pack #3
Primary Resistance = 1.1 ohms, FSM Range = 0.67 - 1.05 ohms
Secondary Resistance = 13.1 k ohms, FSM Range = 9.3 - 16.0 ohms

Camshaft Position sensor resistance = 1,184 ohms, FSM Range = 835 - 1400


In the FSM it stated "ohms" for the resistance unit when testing the secondary resistance for the coils. The range is 9.3 - 16 ohms.
I was getting far higher numbers at 12,000 - 13,100 ohms! Is this a typo in the manual? The springs inside the coil do not look very shiny at all.

Perhaps the resistance is from corrosion build up?
Would replacing all 3 coils fix my P1300 possibly?

No where is the FSM did I find a way to test the ignitor directly. It was more like test these components and if they are within normal range, replace the ignitor.

Let me know what you guys think.

-z

 

[ZionXIX]

UPDATE:

I finally got my Ebay Igniter in and picked it up from customs today. It looks brand new, at least a lot newer than my current igniter.

So Im still getting the P1300 code even after installing this replacement igniter . I cleared the ecu using the torque app. The battery was disconnected for about 2 weeks so that cleared the codes for the first run. I swapped the igniters back and forth 3 times and after about 5 tries Im still getting the P1300. Now I realize that its possible to have 2 bad ingiters but how probable is that? How often do they even break? I dont understand why there is no way to test the igniter itself.

I ran through all those FSM tests in the previous post and everything was within spec. Im kind of stumped at this point. I welcome any advice on how to proceed from here.

Thanks


New Igniter:

Current igniter:

 

[ZionXIX]

So I was reading on some of the YOTA forums that someone had this problem but it was more intermittent. He solved it by sanding all the ground contacts for the igniter and ignition related components. I sanded the base for the igniter and sanded the contact for the battery frame ground and still no luck with this P1300. What other grounding places can I sand? Maybe the ignition coils? The ECU?

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[ZionXIX]

Bump? :redbrick:

 

[ZionXIX]

UPDATE:

I found a nice page in the FSM that pointed out the main ground points in the engine bay. I ended up unbolting 4 ground wires, sanding the paint off, and reattaching them to the body wall.
I sanded the ground from the battery to the body wall on the driver side,
The ECM attached to the intake plenum,
A wire harness ground wire near the ABS module,
The bracket for the igniter,
And finally all 3 ignition coils.

After all that, the P1300 still lives. I'm seriously running out of stuff to try. I know that 2 of the coils look to be aftermarket. I'm going to see if the local toyota place here on the island stocks them. If not, I'm ready to try some aftermarket coils just to see if that is the problem. I just don't understand how coils can trigger an igniter circuit fault but no misfire codes.

On another note, after all that sanding she started started up super quick. Like less than 1/2 second. Before it was a good 1 to 1.5 seconds before full startup.

I plan to figure this out and complete this thread since almost every other thread I've seen on this issue has had either a different fix or the problem went away and nobody knows why.



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[ZionXIX]

UPDATE:

I pulled the 1 OEM ignition coil left and took it to the local Toyota place. They dont carry this part but Im not at all surprised. I have brought them numerous parts and part number only to have them tell me they dont carry it. I really miss the states. Another parts place carries an aftermarket coil made by StarTronic. Ive never heard of them and I was ready to buy a set just to see if the coils are the problem with my CEL. I decided against purchasing after looking at the price tag.

1 coil is 462 EC = $171 USD. At that price I can get 2 OEM coils with shipping. So Ive decided to buy a set of 3 coils and get them shipped. It will probably cost $225 for the coils at Toyotapartsdeal.com. $16 to ship to the broker, (Way easire and cheaper then shipping directly to the island), another $10 - $15 for the brokers fee. Last and certainly not least, I will end up paying approximately 40 to 80% import tax. So worst cast scenario Im out of pocket $430 USD which is still cheaper than the $533 USD + 17% VAT tax they would have charged me at the local parts store. I have also decided that if the new coils dont fix the problem, I will just keep them for the future 4runner I end up with in the states

Final exams are next week and it will probably take at least 7 - 10 days before my parts come in. So it might be a while before my next update.

 

[BoomSticks]

Jeez, I guess we really take autozone for granted.

How much would it be for someone stateside to throw a few coil packs in a box and send them to kitts?

Have you verified that every inch of the harness/wiring from ignitor to coil packs is intact? This almost sounds like a sneaky little short where some insulation got rubbed away exposing a wire.

 

[ZionXIX]

Jeez, I guess we really take autozone for granted.

How much would it be for someone stateside to throw a few coil packs in a box and send them to kitts?

Have you verified that every inch of the harness/wiring from ignitor to coil packs is intact? This almost sounds like a sneaky little short where some insulation got rubbed away exposing a wire.

Used parts are always cheaper on the import tax, your still looking at about 40% minimum of the value they assign your parts. But mine will be here in a couple of days so its a little late now. However I will keep that in mind for the future.

When I tested the resistance for the Coil packs, the primary resistance was about 10% above high spec. Im hoping that they are the issue. She runs fantastic now for the 30 seconds until the ECU cuts the engine off. Im hoping that these aftermarket coil packs are just not talking to the igniter like they are suppose to since all 3 of them have a little high resistance. Oddly enough the OEM coil was further out of spec than the aftermarket ones but that may be due to age.

If I turn out to be wrong Im just going to keep the new coil packs and bring them back with me when I return to the states. At that point I will be in the market for a 4runner.

The multi-meter I was borrowing from a friend so I dont know when he would let me borrow it again. I just dont even know where I would begin checking at this point.I guess I need to dig into the FSM a little more a figure out where those ignition wiring harnesses go. I have a digital copy of the FSM for a 2002 but my 4runner is a 1996 so I had to find another source for the ECU diagram.

Do you think its a broken wire or a ground short due to rubbed off insulation?

Apologies for a long reply, Its pretty much been me and my thoughts in this thread the past few weeks.

 

[BoomSticks]

Seems like it wouldn't run at all with a broken wire, whereas a short from lack of insulation could be intermittent.

 

[ZionXIX]

Seems like it wouldn't run at all with a broken wire, whereas a short from lack of insulation could be intermittent.

If there is a broken wire, I would think it would be the wire responsible for carrying the Ignition confirmation signal. But I think its more complicated than that.

Its very consistent though. Start it up, idles fantastic for like 20 seconds then just stops. The FSM states if the ECU does not receive the confirmation signal for like 6 cycles or something, then it cuts the fuel supply resulting in the engine stopping. Maybe I need to open the wiring harness starting at the igniter and do a thorough visual inspection.

 

[ZionXIX]

UPDATE:

Warning: Long Read. This is a synopsis of my afternoon.



I finally got my Ignition coils in today :bluejump:. I was prepared to purchas some OEM coils from Toyotapartsdeal for $75 a piece for a set of 3. However, I read a post here about some Denso coils that were cheaper but just as good as OEM so at the last minute I decided to save myself a little money and go with some Denso Coils on amazon for $58 a piece sold by Denso through Amazon. I was a little skeptical because I had seen the coil part number on amazon from denso but the picture was not the right coil. I had also looked at the denso website where they have the wrong picture for the part even though their menu takes you through an elaborate process of choosing your vehicle. This time the picture had changed on Amazon and showed the correct coil. I picked up my box today from customs and had a sinking feeling in my gut when I saw that the boxes for each individual coil had a picture of the wrong coils. But luckily inside the box were the right coils.

Bonus: Customs did not charge me quite as much for import tax. Only 28% today, thats a steal....seriously.

I installed the new coils and fired her up. P1300 wins again :crybaby:. At this point my soul is beginning to cry a bit. I have wasted time and money trying to diagnose this problem, and yet I enjoy the challenge. Its a very perplexing feeling.
[MENTION=138238]BoomSticks[/MENTION] suggested to me that I should be looking for a broken or grounded wire. I am still a noob at electrical problems, and I had already order the coils by the time he posted that.

After my coil failure I decided to take his advice and start hunting for wiring problems. I could find any breaks in the main wire loom since it is all covered in plastic sleeves. I took a closer look at the plug for the igniter and noticed that the last wire on the right looked different than the rest. Rubber insulating plug was protruding out of the housing.

That wire just doesnt look right. It looks cleanerthan the other ones so I wonder if its been messed with.

I pulled on it a little and the damn thing came right out.

This wire is identified as wire number 10, the FSM instructed me to check wire number 9, which of course was working fine. Wire #10 is clearly not factory crimped. I tried to re crimp it but ended up break some of the plastic housing. On the bright side it did give a little more access to the metal connector inside.

I tried to remove the connector so I could solder is all back together but that SOB is stuck in there really really well. After some more fiddling I was able to open the crimped flap of the connector with a multitool and pocket knife. I decided to run a test and do a quick and dirty crimp just to see if that was my problem. I tried to start it up and run to the wire and hold it in place but it didnt seem to work very well and the P1300 shut down the engine in about 20 seconds. I needed a way to hold these wires in place to test my theory. Being a Veterinary student I applied a common surgical technique...I clamped it...literally.

Sran the longest to date using this method, about 2 minutes, but eventually the code threw again. I think the wires were starting to warm up and expand/contract causing an intermittent signal. Upon pulling #10 while running causes the engine to die. This has to be the problem, I just need help fixing it now.

Is there any kind of glue I can put into the connector that will conduct electricity? I tried to remove the metal portion but ii just wont budge.

Possibly unrelated, I saw some attached to the MAF wire loom that I do not recognize...any thoughts?