The "low tech means less to break" 5th gen myth?

Yes that's true...But it's also true that the Smartcar has really high safety ratings. If you compare side impact intrusion neasurements you'll see that the VW has about 32cm of space left after getting tboned. Which is the highest number ever recorded. I think side impact numbers and weight will tell you the most about how safe a car is. The statistics may just indicate that only old people like RX350s which is why nobody dies in them.

Also, I think the introduction of traction control reduced rollover deaths by a significant amount....I try not to drive like an idiot so that doesn't reallybother me so much.

Side Impact Safety: Volkswagen Atlas Safest SUV of 2018 | The Car Crash Detective

I think the real world is a better test of safety in the real world than tests that are designed to try to predict the real world results. In this instance empirical evidence >>> lab tests. Time will tell if the atlas is safe in the complex system that is real world use. I would put limited value on lab tests. Crash safety ratings mean basically nothing at all unless they can accurately predict actual results. Im not sure how predictive they have been historically.
 
This post is simply for the sake of discourse.

I think we all have heard how the 5th gens lack of newer tech, buttons, and gizmos is usually followed by the statement "i love it, less to break!" Now with the 2020 model out, nary another review comes out with this mention of lack of tech, only to be followed by such comments.

Sure, maybe with things like air suspension and other complicated mechanics (although 6 gears hardly is new, my 2001 car has 6 gears), but in my personal experience of being a tech guy and car guy for decades, I think this is an overblown statement. Because buttons and dials and electronic features/displays/etc attached to electronics rarely "break" in my experience - automotive or otherwise. Its typically the mechanical components that do.

May I suggest/wonder that it makes owners feel good about lack of these "extras" on a $40-50K truck stuff that comes standard on vehicles $20K LESS (e.g. lack of adaptive cruise control). I am of the camp that WANTS the latest, at least some of it!

I agree with you.

I happen to own a 4Runner, but I'm not a "Toyota guy", or fanboy. To me it's just trying to justify Toyotas lack of interest in updating or modernizing this vehicle.

To spout on about how reliable Toyotas are, then follow that up with "I like that the 4R doesn't have modern tech, there's less to break" is a huge contradiction.

It's Toyota, not an old Jaguar. I'ts going to be reliable no matter what tech they put in it.

You can get all the latest tech in a Lexus; are they not considered reliable? Shoot, you can even get all that in a Camry. And pretty sure the Landcruiser is loaded with tech, yet I've never heard anyone say those are not reliable. Quite the contrary, actually.

OTOH, as much as I hate the 4.0, I'd much rather have it that the Taco's drivetrain. I also loathe electrically opening tailgates. I don't have the patience to wait for that. My mom has one on her Caddy, and I found it infuriating the few times I've had occasion to use it.
 
Same boat.

I restored a 1995 4runner and the only reason I sold it was because the safety ratings on the 2nd gens were brutal -I'd never put my kid in that thing because the doors are a bit of metal piping and sheet metal. Had that thing been safe, I'd still own it.

Makes me wonder how we all survived the past.
 
Hmmm, so part of the reason I was willing to spend relatively big bucks on my new Runner is that 1. I know it's Toyota reliable unless I do something stupid, and 2. it's going to be worth a fairly good percentage of that cost when it's time to sell it. I'm not willing to spend Lexus bucks for a Gucci'd 4Runner. My seats are fine (heated!), headlights are fine, I don't use Cruise control, and I won't take many multi thousand mile trips in it. I don't claim to be an "overlander", whatever that means. I see way too many 4Runners with aftermarket racks, bumpers, traction boards, shovels, and hi lifts that have never been used...uggh. Most seem to be Starbucks posers with shiny paint jobs owned by people with too much disposable income.

Like I wrote earlier, I enjoy driving. Old cars suck in a fun way to drive. I like the two foot diameter steering wheel on my '64 FJ-40, and bad (not really) drum brakes. Years ago, I drove the 40 from Denver to Moab for a week of wheeling there. Lots of guys trailered their rigs, but I wanted to drive there. Three speed on the column, baby, and I was still able to drive over Vail Pass! Hit rain, snow, traffic. Man, that was fun!

I think of my 2019 4Runner as an evolution of the FJ-60 I used to own, but with a lot more power/torque and some niceties and no carburetor. It's not particularly quick 0-60, but who cares about that? I know I'll be among the first to the grocery store the next time we get hit by a blizzard. My wife's '18 Tuscon Limited Ultimate with all the electronic crap will be sitting in the driveway. And the car's nanny will tell me that it's snowing.

Read this post several times and I can't find your point or argument in here. I still think the OP has a fair point about these trucks. For $30-35k they are a good bargain for a capable truck. But for $40-45k, they start to become a ripoff because More Tech =/= Unreliable. You only have to look to other Toyota models to prove this (GX, Land Cruiser). The 4Runner is 15-20 years behind the curve when it comes to powertrain and basic tech, that's just a fact.

Not telling you you shouldn't like your truck bud, if you're happy with what ya got for what ya paid, that's all that matters. I love mine too, it's the perfect medium of comfort/capability/price IMO. But I didn't pay a premium because I liked how basic the truck is... that doesn't make sense.
 
I'm saying I wish they would offer a more basic truck with a price to match. I do love my truck. But if I could have paid less for a truck with less junk on it, I would have bought it rather than the one I did. I agree that an updated powertrain would be nice, but the Runner does pretty well with it's ancient engine/tranny, even up here at altitude. So no, I wouldn't pay a premium price for less tech. But I would have been interested in paying less for less tech. Agree too that the electronic goodies on the truck could use a serious refresh...if I have to have them, then I want stuff that's current!
 
Soccer moms? ... they seem to only listen to soccer moms...]

I didn't realize "Soccer Moms" were a large demographic for demanding different transmission and engine options. I'm also pretty sure there is broad support for infotainment screens that are larger in display size than an iPhone 8 along with Carplay/Android Auto capability.
 
I didn't realize "Soccer Moms" were a large demographic for demanding different transmission and engine options. I'm also pretty sure there is broad support for infotainment screens that are larger in display size than an iPhone 8 along with Carplay/Android Auto capability.

Sorry, seemed too wordy so I edited my post on you....Anyways, the Highlanders seem to do pretty terrible in this diagonal test. So not sure if that is still a comparison for me. I don't think Toyota has made any good AWD systems...Might as well get a Subaru.

YouTube
 
My 2016 4Runner seems like high tech to me. It's the first vehicle I've ever had that has a back up camera, touch screen, hands-free bluetooth phone capability, USB ports, power seat, DC/AC power inverter, etc. Also the first SUV I've had with automatic transmission, not to mention all those "doodads" like crawl control, ATRAC, etc.
 
Does the T4R compete with any other imports? The fact that if Toyota does a drive train upgrade, wouldn't they have to get a new EPA cert? The tariffs that are imposed might be another reason why they haven't changed. Sales figures keep climbing, so why fix what ain't broke.
The other fact is that the world and especially the US is populated with the most distracted drivers in the history of the automobile. People just plain can't drive anymore, and don't really care about driving focused and safely. Put down your phones and we won't need safety sense. I work all around the country and have had rental cars of many different brands. Most of them are junk imo. The new Cherokee has to be the worst pos Ive ever been in. It felt unsafe and had me thinking that 30 years ago, my 79 Corolla was a better vehicle.
Safety nannies are the most annoying gadgets ever put in a vehicle. The vibrating seat in the GM suvs scared the shit outta me. When the rare 4Runner rental comes along, I'm dancing in the Hertz lot. But I learned to drive in the 70s in a 67' Ford country sedan wagon. So when learning in a land yacht that can take down a small house, you actually have to pay attention.
And I will say it again, put down your phones, quit putting on your make up, playing with your infotainment, and drive your vehicle. We won't need safety sense. If not take an uber. Please.....
Edit: Although I do think the BT phone connection is a great addition for folks that work out of their vehicles and have to do business while driving.
 
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low tech also means more profit margin for Toyota

Why else would you take a base model vehicle, splash on some colors and shiny bits, then market it as a 'TRD PRO' and sell it with the highest price tag? :behindsofa:

I believe the 4Runner will be gaining tech at the slowest rate possible that keeps sales figures going well

This x100. I feel bad for people getting swindled with the TRD PRO! 50k price tag for stickers and entry level aftermarket suspension. The ORP includes things the PRO doesn't even have, which is ridiculous. The truck is overpriced as it is.

I totally love my 18 ORP, but I got it with 22k for $31k with pre-paid maintenance from a family member. I think the new prices are totally insane. However, I do love the simplicity of it. It is a refreshing change from my '14 Land Cruiser which was polar opposite, and completely over the top in all regards.
 
low tech also means more profit margin for Toyota

Why else would you take a base model vehicle, splash on some colors and shiny bits, then market it as a 'TRD PRO' and sell it with the highest price tag? :behindsofa:

I believe the 4Runner will be gaining tech at the slowest rate possible that keeps sales figures going well



It’s a big conspiracy.
 
New to the board and first post. Been looking at 4x4 5th gen to replace 99 Tahoe. Like the Tahoe, expect to keep the truck at least 10-20 years. Goals are functional versatility on highways and off-grid lousy dirt roads, bulletproof reliability, and low stress. Long-term mentality. Investment in routine maintenance a given.

All set to buy a clean 23 or 24 when I noticed no CD player or AUX jack. In itself a moderate annoyance. I'll grumble but spend a weekend dumping all my music onto a USB and get over it eventually. Bigger concern is what this says about the vehicle's general reliance on tech. I don't really want my truck connected to the internet. Definitely don't want function to depend on wifi, sat comms, bluetooth, touch screen, or software updates. Couldn't care less about a backup camera, lane alerts, or a nav system and Android/Apple integration guaranteed to be obsolete in 5-10y. I don't care if that junk's there, but when it breaks I hate fixing it just to maintain resale. More importantly I don't want things that really do matter to break along with it.

Can someone educate me on what else in this truck relies on the tech? I see push-start and keyless entry. What about climate control, trip odometer, warning lights - depend on the touch screen? Drive modes? Engine software? Assume the pre-2020 has less of this and pre-2014 even less.

Thank you for any tips.
 
New to the board and first post. Been looking at 4x4 5th gen to replace 99 Tahoe. Like the Tahoe, expect to keep the truck at least 10-20 years. Goals are functional versatility on highways and off-grid lousy dirt roads, bulletproof reliability, and low stress. Long-term mentality. Investment in routine maintenance a given.

All set to buy a clean 23 or 24 when I noticed no CD player or AUX jack. In itself a moderate annoyance. I'll grumble but spend a weekend dumping all my music onto a USB and get over it eventually. Bigger concern is what this says about the vehicle's general reliance on tech. I don't really want my truck connected to the internet. Definitely don't want function to depend on wifi, sat comms, bluetooth, touch screen, or software updates. Couldn't care less about a backup camera, lane alerts, or a nav system and Android/Apple integration guaranteed to be obsolete in 5-10y. I don't care if that junk's there, but when it breaks I hate fixing it just to maintain resale. More importantly I don't want things that really do matter to break along with it.

Can someone educate me on what else in this truck relies on the tech? I see push-start and keyless entry. What about climate control, trip odometer, warning lights - depend on the touch screen? Drive modes? Engine software? Assume the pre-2020 has less of this and pre-2014 even less.

Thank you for any tips.

not a whole lot pre 2020, this website has been posted here a few times and might be helpful

Toyota 4Runner History

the 4runner pre 2020 does not have a lot of tech. most people don't like the Entune but car play can be useful. there aren't too many differences between the early 5th gen and 2014-2019 models, cosmetic and interior refreshes in some areas but nothing significant
 
New to the board and first post. Been looking at 4x4 5th gen to replace 99 Tahoe. Like the Tahoe, expect to keep the truck at least 10-20 years. Goals are functional versatility on highways and off-grid lousy dirt roads, bulletproof reliability, and low stress. Long-term mentality. Investment in routine maintenance a given.

All set to buy a clean 23 or 24 when I noticed no CD player or AUX jack. In itself a moderate annoyance. I'll grumble but spend a weekend dumping all my music onto a USB and get over it eventually. Bigger concern is what this says about the vehicle's general reliance on tech. I don't really want my truck connected to the internet. Definitely don't want function to depend on wifi, sat comms, bluetooth, touch screen, or software updates. Couldn't care less about a backup camera, lane alerts, or a nav system and Android/Apple integration guaranteed to be obsolete in 5-10y. I don't care if that junk's there, but when it breaks I hate fixing it just to maintain resale. More importantly I don't want things that really do matter to break along with it.

Can someone educate me on what else in this truck relies on the tech? I see push-start and keyless entry. What about climate control, trip odometer, warning lights - depend on the touch screen? Drive modes? Engine software? Assume the pre-2020 has less of this and pre-2014 even less.

Thank you for any tips.

I'd suggest a 2019 or older. CD player, navigation that relies on SD cards (updated cards can be bought) an actual key, making the vehicle harder to steal, etc.

The 2019 and older Limited model does have keyless entry, SOS monitoring, auto climate control, etc., so you would probably want to avoid it.
 
Thanks a lot for the quick replies and great info folks! Went to the dealer to put eyes on a 2023 today. Not as bad as I feared. Seems like audio is the main dependency. Dealer said everybody hates the GPS and uninstalls anyway. Giant screen for backup camera, audio controls, and gas mileage seems pretty useless but not a real problem I guess.

I think I'd rather buy an older one but there's tradeoff with age/wear/depreciation costs. Will see what I find out there.

Cheers.
 
Thanks a lot for the quick replies and great info folks! Went to the dealer to put eyes on a 2023 today. Not as bad as I feared. Seems like audio is the main dependency. Dealer said everybody hates the GPS and uninstalls anyway. Giant screen for backup camera, audio controls, and gas mileage seems pretty useless but not a real problem I guess.

I think I'd rather buy an older one but there's tradeoff with age/wear/depreciation costs. Will see what I find out there.

Cheers.

IMO - from a random person in the interwebs... a 2018 or 2019 TRD ORP or Limited if you want the full time 4wd are the best bangs for the buck (bonus points on getting a 2 row limited if you don't want the third row - those are hard to find)
 
I was a dual brand master tech and shop foreman for Audi and VW for the about 12-13 years and now I work in quality testing and development of preproduction and prototype vehicles and technology. I work with the luxury and exotic lines from a specific auto group.

I don’t think you even begin to comprehend how complicated today’s cutting edge powertrains, electrical systems, and drivers assist systems have become and far behind the times the 4Runner really is....

You don’t want to drive an Audi or VW much beyond 100K miles because the repair bills are outrageous.
 
My 2016 4Runner seems like high tech to me. It's the first vehicle I've ever had that has a back up camera, touch screen, hands-free bluetooth phone capability, USB ports, power seat, DC/AC power inverter, etc. Also the first SUV I've had with automatic transmission, not to mention all those "doodads" like crawl control, ATRAC, etc.

You know what back-up camera gets you? A wife who clips off mirrors and dents fenders backing out of the garage because she’s staring at the back-up camera and not the side view mirrors.
 

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