Thoughts on these eBay uniball UCAs??

[ajonesnv]

Agreed.

I haven't read anything from experience that shows these are eBay frap. My experience (thus far) is telling me that they are fine, given the proper run through. And for the record, given more time to work with these I would have replaced the inner sleeve rather than shaving the bushing...I will in the future.

Given the earlier bolt break, I highly doubt any grade bolt would take the amount of contradictive force...the encouraging part is that only the bolt broke under that pressure, not the arm, not the ball-joint.

Lastly, I know many are hung up on the material, but as I'm thinking through this I know that the stock arms are not this strong and Ive never heard of a stock arm breaking. Additionally, the gauge of steel quite thick, on top of the fact that the upper arm doesn't carry the full load of the truck. So I can't deduce a future failure from metal fatigue.

However, my inclination (suspicion) is the steel is 4130. I know most are duped into thinking 4130 is so expensive that only arms that are 600.00+ can have it, but Im quite certain (at this point) the production cost (not including labor time) for any UCA is extremely low, like less than 50.00 low. So why couldn't these be sold at a nice profit for 250.00.

 

[N/A]

There has been a lengthy discussion about these on the 4th gen section about these (for those that don't venture to that side of the site). Wanting to get y'all's take on these.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=321582323124

Of course, the typical "if it's too good to be true...." comes to mind but so far these have been spec'd to match up well with the TC/AllPro/Camburgs. Same dimensions, caster specs, and 4130 chromoly.

Now, they aren't perfect as [MENTION=73515]ajonesnv[/MENTION] has shown in his write up here:
eBay Upper Control Arms Write-Up/Review

They seem interesting and still a money saving option if you go into the purchase knowing the ~$100 in extra parts and labor to make them "perfect".

Before the flaming starts, I'm starting this thread with the Camburg Moog UCAs in my WO cart to purchase this week.

Some guys have tried the eBay UCAs and have had good results as long as the precautions are taken and bolts torqued correctly and installed right side up and on the right side (see thread for this one!)

Link to the 4th gen discussion
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/182584-ebay-uniball-control-arms.html

Cheers

Not a chance I would buy a steering or suspension component from anyone other then a reputable fab shop. If these fail you basically lose control of that wheel.

 

[Jetboy]

Agreed.


However, my inclination (suspicion) is the steel is 4130. I know most are duped into thinking 4130 is so expensive that only arms that are 600.00+ can have it, but Im quite certain (at this point) the production cost (not including labor time) for any UCA is extremely low, like less than 50.00 low. So why couldn't these be sold at a nice profit for 250.00.

I've thought the same thing. Setting up a proper jig would take a maybe half a day to build one that's idiot proof. The uniball costs about $50 each, but probably more like $20 each if you buy 100 of them. The bushings are a few bucks. The amount of 4130 is probably $10 worth. My concern with 4130 is that the welds be done properly for the material. A set costing $250 isn't out of the range of reasonableness. I might be be inclined to just build my own down the road. It's not like these are rocket science. As long as the ball is in the right position relative to the bushings and the tube clears the spring and the welds are strong it's kinda hard to screw them up.

 

[aha2988]

Not a chance I would buy a steering or suspension component from anyone other then a reputable fab shop. If these fail you basically lose control of that wheel.

so... SPC is a reputable company and they have had UCA's fail..

again when, where, why?? does the price or brand of something guarantee quality? Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's better. As well just because a company has more advertising doesn't mean there product is better.

the reputable company is not going to pay for your medical bills if the part fails. they'll replace the part but nothing else. I mean you can sue them but at the end of the day you were the one that chose to put the aftermarket part on the vehicle and drive down the road.



and the whole question about whether or not these arms are made of 4130 is really irrelevant. If these were made of regular everyday steel they would be just as strong as chromoly. (FYI the factory arms are made of thinner gauge mild steel). What changes between the two is weight characteristics and shear strength. Mild steel is going to bend and give more, taking impacts better where chromoly will fracture and break at high impacts. The whole craze over 4130 is less weight similar strength, similar size.

case in point..all nascar cars are built useing only mild steel an if you dont know nascar cars weight 3500#s now these cars take more impact then a drag car..they not only have to take a impact from a wall but other cars coming at them doing 190mph or so also..they dont get ripped a part an some times even come back out to run laps..

drag cars use chromoly at these levels: prostocks, pro mods,and 10.5 second cars weighing 2300# under 3k, and if you've ever seen one hit the wall and then impacted by a car in the other lane your gut will drop..these cars become nothing at all..parts and tubes break and go flying..

so tell me why its so important that these arms have 4130 construction about them?

 

[Intruder]

I feel like there were some guys saying the same thing about the SPC LRs during their failure hayday...

There has been only one failure with these arms and it was because they were installed not only upside down, but also swapped between driver/passenger! And it wasnt any of "terrible welds" that broke, nor the "shoddy bearing", or any other non-factual speculative defect yall claim these have. I have not claimed these to be perfect either, but damn, give something a chance even if it doesnt say Icon, Total Choas, AllPro, or Camburg and cost too much money. The claims of their crappyness are just that, claims. At least there are a few guys out there that have actually taken the time to inspect and run and review these arms to determine their TRUE capabilities. Every person that has purchased these have said the same thing, they arent perfect but they work great and have potential. Lets stop the speculation and get some real evidence that these suck. So far the only real evidence about these is that the arm itself is great and there are a few parts that need to be altered to work in great unison with the arm. You cant tell me that we dont play with our trucks, parts, and mods to make them work better than manufacturer spec. I see these as no different. A few tweaks and they are great. The only thing I question (simply because I cant prove it without having one in hand) is the actuality of the 4130 arm and the stainless uniball. Hence, why I stated Id be tempted to order a pair to inspect myself before making a claim.

You started this thread asking for thoughts on these UCAs and that's what people have given you. I haven't heard of a single person running these on their 5th gen so you probably aren't going to get real world reviews here, only speculation. Even with the few guys who've been running them for a short amount of time you can't get a true sampling of how good/bad they are. Most of the LR UCA failures didn't happen right away, they took a year or two. Yeah, the welds are terrible looking and that isn't what failed on the one guy's rig, but when I see welds like that it makes me wonder what else is poorly done on them that isn't obvious. Sure you can start replacing a bunch of stuff on them to make them better like the zerks, bushings, and uniball but why would I want to have to replace all that stuff on a brand new product when I can buy a TC, Icon, or Camburg arm that's fine out of the box? Yes those arms are more expensive but for me it's worth it. Others are free to put whatever parts they want on their rigs and it won't affect me in any way, but my thought on these arms is that I would not put them on my own rig.

 

[N/A]

so... SPC is a reputable company and they have had UCA's fail..

again when, where, why?? does the price or brand of something guarantee quality? Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's better. As well just because a company has more advertising doesn't mean there product is better.

the reputable company is not going to pay for your medical bills if the part fails. they'll replace the part but nothing else. I mean you can sue them but at the end of the day you were the one that chose to put the aftermarket part on the vehicle and drive down the road.


4130 chromoly is favored and or best known for its weld-ability, as in it's easy to get proper penetration and weld strength without a great deal of effort or crazy expensive welding equipment.

Well technically I said reputable fab shop, not reputable company. I am not familiar with SPC, so I cannot comment. Stuff fails, that is life. All I was saying is that you should at least be confident that someone who knows how to weld stuck the parts together. Buying from Ebay gives me zero confidence that has happened. I know how to weld, quite well, could I make a set of those, 100%. Should you trust your life to them? I wouldn't. They could be the best control arms on the planet, buy you have no way to know.

 

[N/A]

so... SPC is a reputable company and they have had UCA's fail..

again when, where, why?? does the price or brand of something guarantee quality? Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's better. As well just because a company has more advertising doesn't mean there product is better.

the reputable company is not going to pay for your medical bills if the part fails. they'll replace the part but nothing else. I mean you can sue them but at the end of the day you were the one that chose to put the aftermarket part on the vehicle and drive down the road.



and the whole question about whether or not these arms are made of 4130 is really irrelevant. If these were made of regular everyday steel they would be just as strong as chromoly. (FYI the factory arms are made of thinner gauge mild steel). What changes between the two is weight characteristics and shear strength. Mild steel is going to bend and give more, taking impacts better where chromoly will fracture and break at high impacts. The whole craze over 4130 is less weight similar strength, similar size.

case in point..all nascar cars are built useing only mild steel an if you dont know nascar cars weight 3500#s now these cars take more impact then a drag car..they not only have to take a impact from a wall but other cars coming at them doing 190mph or so also..they dont get ripped a part an some times even come back out to run laps..

drag cars use chromoly at these levels: prostocks, pro mods,and 10.5 second cars weighing 2300# under 3k, and if you've ever seen one hit the wall and then impacted by a car in the other lane your gut will drop..these cars become nothing at all..parts and tubes break and go flying..

so tell me why its so important that these arms have 4130 construction about them?

I never said anything about 4130. The OP asked about thoughts on no name Ebay Control Arms. Given their importance to say, keeping your wheel where is it supposed to be, my feeling that knowing that someone who knows how to weld stuck the parts together was my only input.

 

[ajonesnv]

3rd Gen Section is like:


4th Gen Section is like:


and then the 5th:

 

[Jetboy]

so... SPC is a reputable company and they have had UCA's fail..

again when, where, why?? does the price or brand of something guarantee quality? Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's better. As well just because a company has more advertising doesn't mean there product is better.

the reputable company is not going to pay for your medical bills if the part fails. they'll replace the part but nothing else. I mean you can sue them but at the end of the day you were the one that chose to put the aftermarket part on the vehicle and drive down the road.



and the whole question about whether or not these arms are made of 4130 is really irrelevant. If these were made of regular everyday steel they would be just as strong as chromoly. (FYI the factory arms are made of thinner gauge mild steel). What changes between the two is weight characteristics and shear strength. Mild steel is going to bend and give more, taking impacts better where chromoly will fracture and break at high impacts. The whole craze over 4130 is less weight similar strength, similar size.

case in point..all nascar cars are built useing only mild steel an if you dont know nascar cars weight 3500#s now these cars take more impact then a drag car..they not only have to take a impact from a wall but other cars coming at them doing 190mph or so also..they dont get ripped a part an some times even come back out to run laps..

drag cars use chromoly at these levels: prostocks, pro mods,and 10.5 second cars weighing 2300# under 3k, and if you've ever seen one hit the wall and then impacted by a car in the other lane your gut will drop..these cars become nothing at all..parts and tubes break and go flying..

so tell me why its so important that these arms have 4130 construction about them?

The problem is unlikely, but totally possible: What if the bushing tubes or the uniball housing is cast steel that's just machined to look right? How would you feel about welding 4130 or 1020 to a cast housing and relying on it? The material being 4130 isn't all that important - but it being appropriate for the use is pretty damned important.

I'm pretty sure I could get these in titanium of excellent quality out of Taiwan for under $500 a pair, so the material isn't much of the overall cost. The big concern is simply that they are what they say they are. I personally don't have a very good way of determining that.

 

[aha2988]

The problem is unlikely, but totally possible: What if the bushing tubes or the uniball housing is cast steel that's just machined to look right? How would you feel about welding 4130 or 1020 to a cast housing and relying on it? The material being 4130 isn't all that important - but it being appropriate for the use is pretty damned important.

The big concern is simply that they are what they say they are. I personally don't have a very good way of determining that.

IMHO, if you're worried about that much of a hypothetical situation.. you probably have bigger issues on your hands than whether or not these UCA's will work well or not.

maybe we'd do best sticking with the testimonies of the members that are using them.

 

[Daily-runner]

IMHO, if you're worried about that much of a hypothetical situation.. you probably have bigger issues on your hands than whether or not these UCA's will work well or not.

maybe we'd do best sticking with the testimonies of the members that are using them.

Exactly, thank you for posting this comments. This is whole reason why I take the folks that never used or tested the UCA negative comments with a grain of salt. I have read ajonesnv and some other folks review from other forums (Tundra, F150, etc) and honestly besides users error really had nothing bad to say besides nick picking here and there. Again for a savings of $200 I can live with those nick pickings as long as it does what it is suppose to do to begin with.

It might break down in a year or 2, no one knows yet since these UCA is fairly new to the market but then again what makes this worse then say the SPC UCA right now? Actually I would still win because I only spent $250 instead of the $450. LOL

 

[SPENK05]

Since I have been playing both sides of this debate, I will continue...
[MENTION=4150]Daily-runner[/MENTION] Completely agree and am on board with your previous post. In the defense of the ones that are against these arms, IF there is a massive failure in these arms while driving there COULD be significant damage in excess of the ~$250 difference in these arms to the big dogs. That I can understand. Since there have been no REAL failures beyond a bolt due to serious user/install error I can only imagine they are OK given the pre-install "checkup". Not many people have used these that we have access to discuss the pros/cons with but there are 3 we know of that have been running these for thousands of on and off road miles. If these were so terrible like others claim, I feel there would be more issues or at least signs of issues by now, right? Would I run these with the intentions of them lasting the long haul or working with a very high end coilover, lots of weight, or extreme off road use? Hell no. But for the average guy on this site that uses his rig for DD and some weekend trail running that needs a good deal in the meantime of building up his rig, they work. I know we all think and dream we run Moab or Rubicon or take 3000 mile overland trips every weekend, but c'mon... ha

 

[Jeremy556]

I know we all think and dream we run Moab or Rubicon or take 3000 mile overland trips every weekend, but c'mon... ha

Actually, that is exactly what I do. Helps that I'm less than 90 minutes from Moab, under 2 hours to Ouray, and work from home so have no commute. :whoo:

 

[Intruder]

If these were so terrible like others claim, I feel there would be more issues or at least signs of issues by now, right?

Um, that's an awfully small sample set you're looking at to say there'd be issues by now. And I don't think anyone said they are terrible, all I said was the welds look terrible which they do. I would not run them on my truck, but that's just me based off gut feeling and strong suspicions of anything that can only be purchased through fleabay.

Would I run these with the intentions of them lasting the long haul or working with a very high end coilover, lots of weight, or extreme off road use? Hell no.

And I run high(ish) end coilovers, lots of weight, and do some pretty technical trails regularly. Maybe not Moab or Dusy but they aren't exactly gravel roads...

 

[Jhalko]

Actually, that is exactly what I do. Helps that I'm less than 90 minutes from Moab, under 2 hours to Ouray, and work from home so have no commute. :whoo:

I really hate your posts sometimes. It's pure jealously and I have no problem admitting it.

On the UCA issue, I need to get new ones soon, maybe those are fine, but since I don't have the knowledge to know I'm not going to try and save a couple hundo on such a critical suspension component.

 

[SPENK05]

Actually, that is exactly what I do. Helps that I'm less than 90 minutes from Moab, under 2 hours to Ouray, and work from home so have no commute. :whoo:

Um, that's an awfully small sample set you're looking at to say there'd be issues by now. And I don't think anyone said they are terrible, all I said was the welds look terrible which they do. I would not run them on my truck, but that's just me based off gut feeling and strong suspicions of anything that can only be purchased through fleabay.


And I run high(ish) end coilovers, lots of weight, and do some pretty technical trails regularly. Maybe not Moab or Dusy but they aren't exactly gravel roads...

[MENTION=66300]Intruder[/MENTION] You are completely correct that this is a small sample to determine their true abilities. Hence why I started this thread. I figured there might be some guys out in the wood works that have or have tried these that can give some more insight. In the grand scheme of things, given LR's short run of issues there are still thousands of trucks running them with no issues so its just a small percentage. While there are still some people that wouldnt run them despite this percentage and the recent fix, I would say people still see them as a viable option. Personally, after the problems, I wouldnt run LRs on my truck. Thats just my opinion which is why I have Camburgs on order as they are the next best option for my use level without breaking the bank.

If you actually read what I said, I stated that I would not run them either if my rig was setup for those kinds of runs and I would advise against anyone else doing the same. I simply stated that the AVERAGE guy on here is a DD and weekend warrior...if that. Theres alot of pavement princesses here too. For the guys that rarely see real trails and just need some better on road handling then, why not run these? If gets them what they need. If you are beyond a weekend warrior or run some fairly technical trails+, then i would not advise it. Yall are pretty lucky to be within a small distance away from great trails and I envy you. I am within a few hours of a couple good trails but nothing like you guys are.

On the topic of welds... this is from the 4th gen thread.

Fortunately the UCA in the 4runner is not under much load, so metallurgy and welding deficiencies probably won't be a safety issue.

Even the guys, me included, that are saying these arent BAD, have our reserves simply because of the unknowns and QC questions.

In the end, as Ive been saying from my first post to my last: These are good budget option for a budget or building up a rig. By no means would I condone these to anyone beyond that. There has been only one person that runs these that has said there are no reserves about wheeling them. Even the guy that did the writeup and ran these (still is?) said they are an option but if the money is there, get something with more reliability.

This is all just a discussion guys. There has been no one telling people that they should run these over anything else out there. Calm down

 

[ajonesnv]

[MENTION=66300](still is?)

Still am. No sign of issues. Off-Road very regularly. <---additionally for work almost every day.

If anything were to happen, these boards would be the first to know. As would my write-up be updated.

 

[SPENK05]

Still am. No sign of issues. Off-Road very regularly. <---additionally for work almost every day.

If anything were to happen, these boards would be the first to know. As would my write-up be updated.

Thanks for update.