Tired of the Nose-Dive

[Paragon1]

Ok, I've had three instances now when I've had to apply emergency braking and the way it handles scares the hell outta me. I feel that the nose-dive is causing the anti-skid to malfunction because of the weight lifting off the rear wheels, which ultimately results in an inability to stop when you want when it engages.

I own a TE, no KDSS (don't need it around here) and I'm looking to firm the suspension up without too much impact on the wallet. I've tried the search but the majority is for you guys with the heavy off road mods (and i'm quite envious of some of you).

I've looked at ICON, but don't know if I wanna drop 1400 on a kit. Looked into Bilsteins as well, seem to be considerably less expensive, but I kind of go by the "get what you pay for" motto as well. Which, I know, is somewhat of a contradiction to this post.

So, I want to firm up the ride yet retain the off-road capability (hell, it may improve it)

PLEASE HELP! thanks

 

[robotkiller]

Ok, I've had three instances now when I've had to apply emergency braking and the way it handles scares the hell outta me. I feel that the nose-dive is causing the anti-skid to malfunction because of the weight lifting off the rear wheels, which ultimately results in an inability to stop when you want when it engages.

I own a TE, no KDSS (don't need it around here) and I'm looking to firm the suspension up without too much impact on the wallet. I've tried the search but the majority is for you guys with the heavy off road mods (and i'm quite envious of some of you).

I've looked at ICON, but don't know if I wanna drop 1400 on a kit. Looked into Bilsteins as well, seem to be considerably less expensive, but I kind of go by the "get what you pay for" motto as well. Which, I know, is somewhat of a contradiction to this post.

So, I want to firm up the ride yet retain the off-road capability (hell, it may improve it)

PLEASE HELP! thanks

Reviews of the Bilsteins have been uniformly positive, from what I've seen. $360ish for the 4 wheels, $180 for the install $60 for alignment are the prices I'm seeing around here. I decided to go all four corners, b/c I could forsee problems with handling if the compression valving/rebound of the front end didn't match up with the rear, particularly with increasing preload up front to reduce dive.

 

[Paragon1]

Thanks for the quick reply. Did you notice a significant improvement in handling/elimination of that obnoxious floatiness & nosedive?

 

[robotkiller]

Thanks for the quick reply. Did you notice a significant improvement in handling/elimination of that obnoxious floatiness & nosedive?

Don't know yet - getting them installed next week. I'll put up a review then. FWIW, I don't suffer from a lot of floatiness, but I think my tires probably make a big impact here. The truck feels pretty solid on the road. Tires, of course, won't do anything for nose dive.

 

[Jtraskell]

Don't know yet - getting them installed next week. I'll put up a review then. FWIW, I don't suffer from a lot of floatiness, but I think my tires probably make a big impact here. The truck feels pretty solid on the road. Tires, of course, won't do anything for nose dive.

Tires did in fact help nose dive a bit. Keep in mind, the soft side walls are the major caue of the "floating" feeling. They "squish" just as bad when more weight is placed on top or forward on them, similar to weight being transferred from side to side when turning. It does not solve the nose dive completely, (Bilstiens will help even more) but tires with stronger sidewalls will help.

 

[philsey]

Reviews of the Bilsteins have been uniformly positive, from what I've seen. $360ish for the 4 wheels, $180 for the install $60 for alignment are the prices I'm seeing around here. I decided to go all four corners, b/c I could forsee problems with handling if the compression valving/rebound of the front end didn't match up with the rear, particularly with increasing preload up front to reduce dive.

Exactly what he said. I put on 4 several months ago, as the nose dive annoyed the heck outta me, and I have no use for suspension mods.

Fronts set at .85 simply for aesthetic leveling (perfect). Dive and squat are reduced significantly, and the ride is firm without being harsh. This was a perfect upgrade for me.

 

[DocMT]

Can't you just buy stiffer shocks to lessen the nose dive? I'm not talking an expensive set-up, I'm just saying regular replacement shocks that are stiffer than OEM. The only downside is that you'll end up with a stiffer ride, but that might not be a bad compromise.

 

[robotkiller]

Can't you just buy stiffer shocks to lessen the nose dive? I'm not talking an expensive set-up, I'm just saying regular replacement shocks that are stiffer than OEM. The only downside is that you'll end up with a stiffer ride, but that might not be a bad compromise.

That's what Bilsteins are. I don't know the specifics, but based on the reviews I presume that they have slower compression dampening and rebound which would help reduce dive and pogo-ing. You are supposed to be able to set them at zero for no lift, but increasing the spring preload (and thus ride height) would also help with the dive and float issues at the expense of a softer ride.

 

[Paragon1]

Exactly what he said. I put on 4 several months ago, as the nose dive annoyed the heck outta me, and I have no use for suspension mods.

Fronts set at .85 simply for aesthetic leveling (perfect). Dive and squat are reduced significantly, and the ride is firm without being harsh. This was a perfect upgrade for me.

Thats exactly what i needed to hear. I like the option of adjustablility as im going to throw some Fuel Boost 18x9's on and will probably go with Duratracs. After that, the mods will be done... maybe.

Thanks again all. Love this board.

 

[mtbnole]

Don't know yet - getting them installed next week. I'll put up a review then. FWIW, I don't suffer from a lot of floatiness, but I think my tires probably make a big impact here. The truck feels pretty solid on the road. Tires, of course, won't do anything for nose dive.

but you also have KDSS, and the OP does not.

 

[robotkiller]

but you also have KDSS, and the OP does not.

True, but there's not much he can do about that one.

 

[Paragon1]

True, but there's not much he can do about that one.

Except express disappointment in my decision to not get it.

 

[ATL4R]

Kdss

Except express disappointment in my decision to not get it.

Why so disappointed? I looked high and low for a base model Trail w/o KDSS or NAV. It was very hard to find and the dealer had to finally find one "en route" to another dealer and re-route it.

Before my purchase, I test drove a Trail with KDSS and a 4x4 SR5. I really felt the KDSS if I jerked the wheel back and forth at higher speeds - there was less lean. The SR5 performed very nicely as well with more "Sway" if I jerked the wheel back and forth at speed.

Off-road : It's definitely neat how KDSS works - don't get me wrong. Stiff bars that "disengage" (for lack of a better term) to allow flex when wheeling are cool!

I keep hearing everyone say the true advantage is on-road. If you check out some of the reviews online of 2010+ 4Runners, you see that the Trail Edition with KDSS has a slalom speed of 57.2 mph and a skid pad reading of .71g. Yet the SR5 has a slalom speed of 58.4 mph and a skid pad reading of .73g. The SR5 will have some more lean for sure, but it looks like it holds the road a little better according to the #s. (Note: Slalom #'s can be skewed by the different drivers, but the skid pad reading is a pretty constant measurement - no matter the driver).

Enjoy your ride!

 

[robotkiller]

Except express disappointment in my decision to not get it.

I wouldn't sweat it. I bet tires and Bilsteins make a bigger difference than burly sway bars anyway.

 

[Paragon1]

Why so disappointed?.

Actually, im not. I love this thing, but I come from low slung sport sedans/coupes and think vehicles should have certain attributes no matter what size.

However, toyota let the buyers down with the handling, specifically on-road. In their efforts to get better gas-mileage, they cheaped out on the tires (i got a no-kidding Torque split in one) and the shocks dont really seem up to the task overall.

I just found it strange that with the FJ TRD/Off-road package you actually get real off-road tires. Would stand to reason that a "trail edition" with crawl control and all the off-road goodies that come with it would include tires to maximize their utility!

Now that im done venting, this is the ONLY complaint i have about my 4R. I just feel its important to voice these concerns. My plan is to do before/after videos of suspension/braking as i get the upgrades.

Bilsteins have been orderd

 

[icsa]

I keep hearing everyone say the true advantage is on-road. If you check out some of the reviews online of 2010+ 4Runners, you see that the Trail Edition with KDSS has a slalom speed of 57.2 mph and a skid pad reading of .71g. Yet the SR5 has a slalom speed of 58.4 mph and a skid pad reading of .73g. The SR5 will have some more lean for sure, but it looks like it holds the road a little better according to the #s. (Note: Slalom #'s can be skewed by the different drivers, but the skid pad reading is a pretty constant measurement - no matter the driver).

I'm guessing the SR5 in test was 2WD. The extra weight of 4WD will affect negatively the numbers.

 

[Antman]

I'm guessing the SR5 in test was 2WD. The extra weight of 4WD will affect negatively the numbers.

Yoda is correct. :jk:

 

[philsey]

Yoda is correct. :jk:

:biggrin2: Funny, that was.