Toyota engines and synthetic oil

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Interesting information
http://www.settraining.com/content/course-codes/12_07_HS_Toyota_Engines_and_Synthetic_Oil1.pdf

 

[homeyclaus]

It's interesting that they state the 2TR-FE (2.5L I4 engine used in Tacomas) is listed as not compatible with synthetic oil, as an absolute statement.

It's probably more correct to say it's incompatible with 0W20 synthetic.

What say [MENTION=48413]Quentin[/MENTION] and [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]?

 

[N2GLOCK]

The 10K deal has me feeling a little uneasy. Im @ 12K now. What I did was replace the oil filter w/ a Toyota genuine @ 5K and then I added a quart of 0W20 synthetic & then took it in to the dealer for the 10K. I said nothing and neither did they. Guess the mechanic didn't notice that the filter had been changed.

 

[Quentin]

It's interesting that they state the 2TR-FE (2.5L I4 engine used in Tacomas) is listed as not compatible with synthetic oil, as an absolute statement.

It's probably more correct to say it's incompatible with 0W20 synthetic.

What say [MENTION=48413]Quentin[/MENTION] and [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]?

The Tacoma uses a 2.7L. According to the sheet, it does use synthetic but at the shortened 5000 mile interval. I don't know what weight oil it uses, but synthetic is surely OK in it. The 1GR in the tacoma, which is an older revision of the 1GR rather than the one in our 4Runners, ships with conventional oil at a 5W-30 weight (IIRC) rather than 0W-20. I would say that you are correct in that you CAN use synthetic 5W-30 oil in the Taco 1GR, but you cannot use a synthetic 0W-20.

I'm debating what to do with my 4Runner. I'm at around 6000 miles on this change and 15 months since the last change. I hate to dump $50 of oil out if it still has 5000 miles left in it.

 

[1engineer]

It's interesting that they state the 2TR-FE (2.5L I4 engine used in Tacomas) is listed as not compatible with synthetic oil, as an absolute statement.

It's probably more correct to say it's incompatible with 0W20 synthetic.

What say [MENTION=48413]Quentin[/MENTION] and [MENTION=66316]1engineer[/MENTION]?

I suspect you are correct Jan. The target audience does not need to be confused. Same for the Tacoma and 4Runner V6 engines. I will defer to [MENTION=44268]Quint[/MENTION]in though.

The 10K deal has me feeling a little uneasy. Im @ 12K now. What I did was replace the oil filter w/ a Toyota genuine @ 5K and then I added a quart of 0W20 synthetic & then took it in to the dealer for the 10K. I said nothing and neither did they. Guess the mechanic didn't notice that the filter had been changed.

Why? Do you do extreme service in your vehicle? I won't criticize I am just curious why you would go against the advice of some pretty good engineers unless you are towing daily or traveling the desert for 100's of miles.

 

[1engineer]

The Tacoma uses a 2.7L. According to the sheet, it does use synthetic but at the shortened 5000 mile interval. I don't know what weight oil it uses, but synthetic is surely OK in it. The 1GR in the tacoma, which is an older revision of the 1GR rather than the one in our 4Runners, ships with conventional oil at a 5W-30 weight (IIRC) rather than 0W-20. I would say that you are correct in that you CAN use synthetic 5W-30 oil in the Taco 1GR, but you cannot use a synthetic 0W-20.

I'm debating what to do with my 4Runner. I'm at around 6000 miles on this change and 15 months since the last change. I hate to dump $50 of oil out if it still has 5000 miles left in it.

Hey! You should be fine with the synthetic as it does not have the same issues as conventional oil separation with the additive packs. Unless it has just sat there and not moved at all for six months you should be fine. I also agree with your assessment on the 1GR. Target audience.

 

[N2GLOCK]

I suspect you are correct Jan. The target audience does not need to be confused. Same for the Tacoma and 4Runner V6 engines. I will defer to [MENTION=44268]Quint[/MENTION]in though.



Why? Do you do extreme service in your vehicle? I won't criticize I am just curious why you would go against the advice of some pretty good engineers unless you are towing daily or traveling the desert for 100's of miles.

As a matter of fact, yes I do. We live in So Cal and often cross the Mojave desert in order to get to Vegas and Laughlin. We also have a pretty heavy jet boat that we take out quite a bit. Lastly, I'm in the automotive industry and way too many times I have seen oil filters stop filtering or even fall apart at 8k and 9k

 

[BigredTEX]

Another interesting item is that the 1GR-FE for the T4R, FJ and Tundra are synthetic, but the same engine in the Tacoma is conventional. I assume the engines are the same.

 

[1engineer]

Another interesting item is that the 1GR-FE for the T4R, FJ and Tundra are synthetic, but the same engine in the Tacoma is conventional. I assume the engines are the same.

The Tacoma uses a 2.7L. According to the sheet, it does use synthetic but at the shortened 5000 mile interval. I don't know what weight oil it uses, but synthetic is surely OK in it. The 1GR in the tacoma, which is an older revision of the 1GR rather than the one in our 4Runners, ships with conventional oil at a 5W-30 weight (IIRC) rather than 0W-20. I would say that you are correct in that you CAN use synthetic 5W-30 oil in the Taco 1GR, but you cannot use a synthetic 0W-20.

I'm debating what to do with my 4Runner. I'm at around 6000 miles on this change and 15 months since the last change. I hate to dump $50 of oil out if it still has 5000 miles left in it.

Quintin posted it above.

 

[homeyclaus]

The Tacoma uses a 2.7L. According to the sheet, it does use synthetic but at the shortened 5000 mile interval. I don't know what weight oil it uses, but synthetic is surely OK in it. The 1GR in the tacoma, which is an older revision of the 1GR rather than the one in our 4Runners, ships with conventional oil at a 5W-30 weight (IIRC) rather than 0W-20. I would say that you are correct in that you CAN use synthetic 5W-30 oil in the Taco 1GR, but you cannot use a synthetic 0W-20.

I'm debating what to do with my 4Runner. I'm at around 6000 miles on this change and 15 months since the last change. I hate to dump $50 of oil out if it still has 5000 miles left in it.

2.5, 2.7 - same block, pistons, rods, and crank, just a different head No seriously - sorry for that oversight.

For vehicles whose maintenance specs differentiate between conventional and synthetic, I follow those intervals. Typically synthetic doubles the mileage and time interval. Anything truck-related tends to be severe service schedule anyways, since it tows, it wheels, and drives a lot of dusty roads.

On conventional spec vehicles, I keep the mileage interval the same, but double the maximum time of the oil in the crank case. For my vehicles, I'll run a couple of lab analyses to make sure that things have not become unsound - they have all come back okay.

 

[homeyclaus]

As a matter of fact, yes I do. We live in So Cal and often cross the Mojave desert in order to get to Vegas and Laughlin. We also have a pretty heavy jet boat that we take out quite a bit. Lastly, I'm in the automotive industry and way too many times I have seen oil filters stop filtering or even fall apart at 8k and 9k

I'd probably run 0W30 synthetic and call it good, or go to severe service intervals.

As far as oil filter issues, the Toyota ones are the cheapest, and don't seem to have issues in either my 4Runner or now Tundra. But I'll believe you if it's an orange-can Fram filter or the same thing with a contract paint job (Pennzoil, etc).

 

[Envy]

This post actually made me feel a little more comfortable about my oil. My main concern like N2Glock was that the oil filter would be unreliable after 8k. I don't like going 10k between changes but I guess I'm old school. Feels like I'm going to be one of those cars blowing white smoke all over the road or have hunks of metal in my oil pan.

Now to get off topic I was wondering something today. My father is really old school when it comes to cars, he always complains when I let my tank get to near empty. His reasoning is I will suck up the gas which has been sitting stagnant on the bottom with trash. I know the gas mixes and sloshes when your driving. But is there any truth to this?

 

[Jeremy556]

This post actually made me feel a little more comfortable about my oil. My main concern like N2Glock was that the oil filter would be unreliable after 8k. I don't like going 10k between changes but I guess I'm old school. Feels like I'm going to be one of those cars blowing white smoke all over the road or have hunks of metal in my oil pan.

Now to get off topic I was wondering something today. My father is really old school when it comes to cars, he always complains when I let my tank get to near empty. His reasoning is I will suck up the gas which has been sitting stagnant on the bottom with trash. I know the gas mixes and sloshes when your driving. But is there any truth to this?

Car blowing white smoke is burning coolant, probably nothing to do with the oil they run or change interval.
What trash? The only crap I have encountered in fuel tanks is rust in the TOP of metal tanks. Gasoline mixes pretty readily. The only thing you risk is damaging a fuel pump by running it dry, as it uses the gasoline for cooling.

 

[Canazes9]

Car blowing white smoke is burning coolant, probably nothing to do with the oil they run or change interval.
What trash? The only crap I have encountered in fuel tanks is rust in the TOP of metal tanks. Gasoline mixes pretty readily. The only thing you risk is damaging a fuel pump by running it dry, as it uses the gasoline for cooling.

Blowing white smoke is usually an indication of burning oil, not coolant. Oil burning in cars with low mileage often can be attributable to oil change intervals, but not due to following the manufactures recommendation (it is amazing how many people don't change their oil as recommended).

David

 

[Canazes9]

This post actually made me feel a little more comfortable about my oil. My main concern like N2Glock was that the oil filter would be unreliable after 8k. I don't like going 10k between changes but I guess I'm old school. Feels like I'm going to be one of those cars blowing white smoke all over the road or have hunks of metal in my oil pan.

Now to get off topic I was wondering something today. My father is really old school when it comes to cars, he always complains when I let my tank get to near empty. His reasoning is I will suck up the gas which has been sitting stagnant on the bottom with trash. I know the gas mixes and sloshes when your driving. But is there any truth to this?

Your dad is right or at least he used to be. Gas tanks have a tendency to "breathe" naturally. As the air warms up during the day, the fuel warms up and expands, pushing vapor out. When the fuel cools in the evening it contracts, sucking in moist air. The moist air over time can allow a water layer to accumulate and float on top of the fuel. This water layer also tends to trap the odd bits of dirt, rust, etc and can form a ray layer - trash in the tank to be sucked in when the fuel level gets low.

That is the way it used to be. Evaporative emissions regulations have eliminated tanks that breathe a long, long, time ago - same thing for the fuel stations where you buy your fuel. As the tanks don't breathe, there is little water to accumulate in your system. The ethanol added to fuel tends to pull water into the gas also, helping to prevent any stratification. Elimination of the breathing eliminated most of the water, so you've eliminated a lot of the rust and 99+% of the dirt.

Long story short, there is no trash layer in your tank any more. Run your tank as low as you want, you will have no issues.

David

 

[eddiebx]

Blowing white smoke is usually an indication of burning oil, not coolant. Oil burning in cars with low mileage often can be attributable to oil change intervals, but not due to following the manufactures recommendation (it is amazing how many people don't change their oil as recommended).

David

Are you sure about that because every engine I've worked on that burned oil was producing blue/grayish smoke. And coolant/water leak is usually white smoke like Jeremy said.

 

[1engineer]

Blowing white smoke is usually an indication of burning oil, not coolant. Oil burning in cars with low mileage often can be attributable to oil change intervals, but not due to following the manufactures recommendation (it is amazing how many people don't change their oil as recommended).

David

Are you sure about that because every engine I've worked on that burned oil was producing blue/grayish smoke. And coolant/water leak is usually white smoke like Jeremy said.

Water
A thick white smoke after your vehicle is warmed up is steam, usually mixed with coolant, which signifies a warped or cracked head or even a cracked block.

Oil
Blue smoke in the same condition is burning oil which is usually a ring or piston problem.

Fuel
Black smoke is burning too much fuel, not enough air.

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

This post actually made me feel a little more comfortable about my oil. My main concern like N2Glock was that the oil filter would be unreliable after 8k. I don't like going 10k between changes but I guess I'm old school. Feels like I'm going to be one of those cars blowing white smoke all over the road or have hunks of metal in my oil pan.

Now to get off topic I was wondering something today. My father is really old school when it comes to cars, he always complains when I let my tank get to near empty. His reasoning is I will suck up the gas which has been sitting stagnant on the bottom with trash. I know the gas mixes and sloshes when your driving. But is there any truth to this?

I'm probably older than most of you guys so I am old school. I believe you should not run your tank empty. Debris as well as moisture from condensation will collect on the bottom of the tank. This was a very real problem with old school metal tanks. Maybe not so much today but I still think it's a good practice.

As for white smoke, I think it's mostly steam. Notice how it disappears much faster than the blue (burning oil) or black (too rich mixture) smoke.

 

[Canazes9]

Are you sure about that because every engine I've worked on that burned oil was producing blue/grayish smoke. And coolant/water leak is usually white smoke like Jeremy said.

In reference to this:

This post actually made me feel a little more comfortable about my oil. My main concern like N2Glock was that the oil filter would be unreliable after 8k. I don't like going 10k between changes but I guess I'm old school. Feels like I'm going to be one of those cars blowing white smoke all over the road or have hunks of metal in my oil pan.

Yes. If you've got a car that's puking tons of smoke, yes you can tell the difference between grey smoke from oil and white steamy smoke from coolant contamination. If you are a trained mechanic checking a car you can look at it and tell pretty quickly even if its not much smoke. If you ask most people what color smoke they see coming out the back of a car that's burning a little oil as its driving down the highway in the daytime, they will say white, they don't realize the difference till you compare it side by side.

When you start getting coolant in the combustion chamber the end is coming rather quickly - you're not going to drive like that for a long time before you have it repaired or suffer catastrophic failure. Burning oil can go on for a real long time w/o repair as long as you don't run completely out. The guy in the parking lot at work or the guy in your neighborhood that you see driving day in and day out for years puffing a little "white" smoke is burning oil, not suffering a blown head gasket.

This wasn't a diagnostic question - "My 4Runner just started blowing white smoke, what is it?"

He's describing all the vehicles he sees driving around day to day that are blowing whitish smoke out the exhaust - mostly what he's seeing is cars that are burning oil. The way Jeremy's reply was worded it read (to me) as if those cars you see driving around all the time puffing "white" smoke out the tail pipe all have blown head gaskets - can't definitely say how things where you are, but that's definitely not the case where I am.

YMMV
David

 

[eddiebx]

In reference to this:



Yes. If you've got a car that's puking tons of smoke, yes you can tell the difference between grey smoke from oil and white steamy smoke from coolant contamination. If you are a trained mechanic checking a car you can look at it and tell pretty quickly even if its not much smoke. If you ask most people what color smoke they see coming out the back of a car that's burning a little oil as its driving down the highway in the daytime, they will say white, they don't realize the difference till you compare it side by side.

When you start getting coolant in the combustion chamber the end is coming rather quickly - you're not going to drive like that for a long time before you have it repaired or suffer catastrophic failure. Burning oil can go on for a real long time w/o repair as long as you don't run completely out. The guy in the parking lot at work or the guy in your neighborhood that you see driving day in and day out for years puffing a little "white" smoke is burning oil, not suffering a blown head gasket.

This wasn't a diagnostic question - "My 4Runner just started blowing white smoke, what is it?"

He's describing all the vehicles he sees driving around day to day that are blowing whitish smoke out the exhaust - mostly what he's seeing is cars that are burning oil. The way Jeremy's reply was worded it read (to me) as if those cars you see driving around all the time puffing "white" smoke out the tail pipe all have blown head gaskets - can't definitely say how things where you are, but that's definitely not the case where I am.

YMMV
David

So now your excuse on why you explained it wrong is because everyone else explains it wrong, you should continue to explain it wrong too? LOL, okay whatever floats your boat

BTW, there are tons of ways for tiny amounts of coolant to get into the engine and/or intake tract w/o imminent catastrophic failure, but probably not in Texas so I won't even bother.