TPMS and swapping tires

[Yotta]

I am going to swap stock tires for new ones. I am used to it being just a simple demount/mount/balance thing, but now there is TPMS.

One place told me that I will need to reprogram TPMS sensors because they will go into new tires (and wants to charge me $120 for it, separately from the mount-and-balance charge). Another place said that no reprogramming is necessary, they'll just swap sensors into new tires and that's it.

So what's the deal here, who's right and who's wrong?

 

[philsey]

I am going to swap stock tires for new ones. I am used to it being just a simple demount/mount/balance thing, but now there is TPMS.

One place told me that I will need to reprogram TPMS sensors because they will go into new tires (and wants to charge me $120 for it, separately from the mount-and-balance charge). Another place said that no reprogramming is necessary, they'll just swap sensors into new tires and that's it.

So what's the deal here, who's right and who's wrong?

Are you saying "tires" and meaning "wheels"? Or are you just getting new tires on stock wheels?

If just new tires, what are they?

 

[Yotta]

No, I mean tires -- just new rubber, stock size on OEM wheels. The tires are Cooper AT3s.

 

[philsey]

No, I mean tires -- just new rubber, stock size on OEM wheels. The tires are Cooper AT3s.

... in which case store #1 is either:
a) completely stupid, or more likely
b) thinks you are, and
c) is trying to hose you. run away.

As to store #2: "Another place said that no reprogramming is necessary"

that part is correct.....

but this is wrong "they'll just swap sensors into new tires and that's it."

There is no "swapping" - the sensors are part of the inside of the valve stem, attached to the WHEEL. Maybe you just have a communications issue. Regardless there should be no additional costs attached AFAIK.

Caveat: These sensors do have a battery, and have a life, in which case they (the sensors) must be replaced. But if yours had stopped working, I assume you'd know it.

Google Images for TPMS, and you'll understand it.

 

[eddiebx]

:iagree:

Also make sure not to let them sell you a "TPMS rebuild". If you don't touch the TPMS, you don't have to rebulid it, plain and simple. And in your case, there's no need to touch the TPMS since they are just replacing the tires.

 

[Yotta]

Thank you all.

The first place is a dealer so I guess it's in their blood :-/

But as to communication breakdown, I don't know, when I say tires I mean tires. I know the word "wheels". But maybe when I say I want to swap tires some people are hearing "I want to swap wheels"?

And all I asked was "Will something have to be done with TPMS?" and the first place said "yes, they need to be reprogrammed". I suspect they have highly selective hearing....

 

[BlackWorksInc]

First off there's two systems Toyota used/uses for TPMS

-Indirect TPMS (older style) uses ABS wheel speed sensors and an algorithim to determine when a tire goes flat due to the nature of rolling resistance and circumference change as the tire is deflated. These systems need to be relearned when tires are rotated, replaced, and/or swapped. This system can differentiate between new and old tires and tends to cause problems with people who don't replace tires in 4's or rotate regularly.

-Direct TPMS (legally required '07+ but availble on some models as early as '04) uses sensors mounted on the wheel to provide accurate tire pressure, temperature, ect information. This system does not care about tire diameter and/or size and directly monitors pressure. Toyota's system unlike some GM systems does not care where the wheels are placed, what I mean by this is that some GMs use a direct TPMS that learns each wheel where it is and this system must be relearned everytime you do a rotation and/or replace tires (many don't do this and it doesn't really cause too many problems, but its technically how you're supposed to service the vehicle). The "GM Tire Dance" as some people call it learns their TPMS to Left Front, Right Front, ect and this way the vehicle can tell you which tire is low on air or not responding.

Toyota's system uses a unique FCC ID from the TPMS sensor and stores it on a list that is programmed to the vehicle. Tire location does not matter and as long as the wheels are in proximity to the vehicle, the system functions normally.


What that means is that your vehicle does not need to be reprogrammed if you install new tires on your factory rims with the original sensors.

 

[Morphyne]

So when I get my tires done should hand my tire tech four new batteries and ask him to change them?

 

[philsey]

So when I get my tires done should hand my tire tech four new batteries and ask him to change them?

The batteries are not replaceable. You have to trade for a new 4Runner.

 

[Espresso]

Just curious how many sets of TPMS can a 4runner recognize? I know some other cars can have 2 or more sets of TPMS programmed into one vehicle. This is to allow someone to swap a dedicated set of snow wheels/tires and not have to reprogram anything.

 

[FrontRange4Runner]

The batteries are not replaceable. You have to trade for a new 4Runner.

FWIW: This is also true if you get some rust on the frame weld points.

 

[kenski]

Just curious how many sets of TPMS can a 4runner recognize? I know some other cars can have 2 or more sets of TPMS programmed into one vehicle. This is to allow someone to swap a dedicated set of snow wheels/tires and not have to reprogram anything.

This is where the reprogramming part comes in. The 4Runner can only recognize 4 TPMS codes at a time -- that's 1 for each tire. If you ever want it to recognize another set of (four) TPMS sensors, then you would have to reprogram it. To do this, the dealer, tire shop, or someone with a reprogramming tool would have to connect to your vehicle and delete the codes for the 4 old sensors and type in the code for the 4 new sensors. This would need to be done every time you swap out the tires else you will get a warning light on your dash.

EDIT:
Sorry, just re-read your post and realized I misread. You were not asking about the reporgramming process. To answer your question... the 4Runner can only recognize 1 set of TPMS sensors. Sorry if that sounded condescending.

 

[mdogg]

Just curious how many sets of TPMS can a 4runner recognize? I know some other cars can have 2 or more sets of TPMS programmed into one vehicle. This is to allow someone to swap a dedicated set of snow wheels/tires and not have to reprogram anything.

Sadly, just the 1 set (of 4 sensors - not 5 to include the spare).

Just read on here within the last few months about cloning TPMS so that you would have 2 sets with the exact same numbers. This would allow you a simple swap for winter/3-season wheel switches. Might be worth looking into for the absolute easiest DIY swaps.

obviously getting the TechStream software/cable would allow you to make your own changes for different (non-cloned) TPMS.

Or you can go aftermarket with Orange Electronic. They make good retrofit systems with individual monitoring available. If you go this route, you might want electrical tape over the dash light (or a tpms pipe mounted around the jack or elsewhere inside the vehicle). On my last car (Pontiac) I enjoyed being able to see fairly real time pressures at each corner.

 

[phillyd2]

ATEQ TPM Quickset is what I use.

 

[1000MPH]

Costco charges $2/wheel extra for the rebuild kit and programming. It's a rubber seal, a washer or 2, a new valve, and a cap. I believe they also reset the TPMS as part of their procedure. Probably for the same reasons they always rebalance during rotations.

 

[Scott@Hightech]

Just curious how many sets of TPMS can a 4runner recognize? I know some other cars can have 2 or more sets of TPMS programmed into one vehicle. This is to allow someone to swap a dedicated set of snow wheels/tires and not have to reprogram anything.

As others have mentioned, you can only Have 4/5 sensors programmed into a vehicle at time. BUT with aftermarket sensors, such as Orange sensors or the EZ sensors that we carry, you can Clone the factory tpms sensors and have 2 working sets.

 

[Espresso]

So is there a universal device/tool that all tire shops use to reprogram TPMS for all make/model cars? If so, any got a link to show the cost? Some shops charge $50-100 to reset TPMS so that can add up for those of us with a dedicated set of snow tires.

As for this orange electronic TMPS, if I were to get these sensors and cloned my stock TPMS code but had tire work done at the dealership, would they be able to reprogram it with the device/tool they have or would they give me grief for an aftermarket TPMS system?

 

[1000MPH]

Several companies make the tools and aftermarket sensors. It's a pretty big business since TPMS has been mandatory now for a few years. There are several companies that make the OEM sensor for Toyota, too, but I think all 4R's from 10-13 are TRW. I think you will need to find a shop that knows what they are doing like [MENTION=99235]Scott@Hightech[/MENTION] and [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

A couple links I've posted before if you want to do more research.
Tire Pressure Monitoring Sensors - TPMS Sensors
Toyota TPMS - Toyota TPMS Tools & Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems

 

[teygabroad]

I have two sets of wheels/tires and have used the Orange electronics sensors. I cloned my factory sensors and bought the Orange tool for programming. They work great. I believe you can get the Orange sensors for about ~$30/ea and never have to visit the dealer again to reprogram the ids.

 

[Newf4R]

As others have mentioned, you can only Have 4/5 sensors programmed into a vehicle at time. BUT with aftermarket sensors, such as Orange sensors or the EZ sensors that we carry, you can Clone the factory tpms sensors and have 2 working sets.

I have two sets of wheels/tires and have used the Orange electronics sensors. I cloned my factory sensors and bought the Orange tool for programming. They work great. I believe you can get the Orange sensors for about ~$30/ea and never have to visit the dealer again to reprogram the ids.

First I heard of cloning... Seems like the best solution. No more trips to the shop spring and fall.

What's the process? Do I need a tool on top of the sensors Scott?