Trail owners can you try something for me please?

Zeder

Zeder

Member
Hello,

I am new here, just joined this morning. I am the mostly happy owner of a new 2012 Shoreline Blue Trail Edition. KDSS and all.

Somehow I managed to put 5000km on it in 3 weeks!

I seem to have a small but concerning issue with the front suspension. I can easily duplicate the issue on demand, and was wondering if somebody out there could try the same thing and report you findings back to me.

I had the dealer look at it today and they gave me the blank look and just said everything is tight under there. They also did a wheel alignment which checked out as good, just a little tweak the tech said.

Here's what happens:

I first noticed a secondary thud/thump in the front suspension when I drive over a manhole cover or small pothole. It sounds/feels like a sway bar end link or bushing of some type. Its subtle but its there. It is very pronounced when I drive over washboard at speed.

Now here is where it get interesting...
If I am idling down the street, like 5 mph, and I repeatedly stab the brakes I can emulate the sound almost exactly. The thump happens when I am releasing the brake peddle, not when I am applying the peddle pressure. Kind of like testing 4Runner nose dive on your front street. It is definitely in the front suspension. I also get a small twitch to the right in the steering wheel when I stab the brakes. It's almost like the right caliper grabs just a bit sooner than the left. Once the left side catches up, the 4R stops nice and straight. No pulling to either side.

So... if somebody would be willing to stab their brake peddle a few dozen times and let me know if this issue is specific to my 4R TE I would really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!
Z
 
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Thump sounds like the drive shaft thing but that you definitely feel in the rear. Mines does not thump in the front. I do have the initial pull to the right sometimes. I only notice it at very low speed and just before the car stops. Like yours, after the initial pull, the car stops straight. Did not ask the dealer as I have a toytec lift and all terrains and they'll probably blame it on that. Overall brakes feel squishy but car stops well and you will get used to it.
 
It really could be a multitude of things...

Try the easy stuff first:

1. Lug nuts, make sure they are tight and torqued properly.

2. Jack the vehicle up, and get under there and start moving things like the tires, grab the sway bar and try to move it, etc...See if you can replicate the thump.

3. Take it back to the dealer and demand they seriously get under there and find this thump.

You paid good money for a brand new vehicle that shouldn't be making thumping noises from the front end.
 
My Trial feels and sounds solid over bumps and expansion joints for the most part. Occasionally I can hear a tire slap, usually on sealed blacktop with the window open. Also a fast drive on washboard trails can get a clack or knock from the front left.
The brake pedal does have some click, clunks, creaks and buzzes (sounds like a law firm) that I've learned to live with. I tried to "repeatedly stab the brakes" this morning and all I could hear was my gas sloshing around.
 
Thanks for all that have tried this brake test. Right now I have my 4R back at the tire shop to swap out the new DuraTrac's that nobody can seem to balance. 5 tries including the dealer. All using the Road Force/hub centered technique. Lug nuts @ 81lb/ft crisscross tightening. I have repeatedly asked for the RF load numbers but have not received them. So they can do it AGAIN. Once the tire issue is taken care of I am going to take a NEW 4RTE from another dealership for a test drive. If I can't duplicate it on a different 4R TE then my dealer will have to keep it until they figure it out.

I am beginning to wonder if bleeding the brakes would help with the issue of the right caliper grabbing before the left one when I stab the peddle. Maybe there is a little air bubble in the left side that delays the onset of the left brake.

As far as the suspension thud goes, I wonder if it is something with the front shock bushing? Has anyone had this problem and replaced the OEM shocks with lets say Bilsteins and had the issue go away? Or can someone who has replace the shocks and not modified the suspension in any other way try my brake test and report back?

Have a great day everyone!

Z
 
The only noise I get is from the small amount of slack in the spare tire chain hanging through the center of it. Other than that, no real clunks or knocks or anything.
 
Sometimes a sound will travel thru the frame and sound like it is coming from the opposite end of the vehicle. When I have a recovery shackle in the back of my rig, it can sound like something rattling on the front.

Do you have a hitch draw bar in your hitch? Spare tire tight? Something rolling around in one of the storage areas?
 
Zeder. Have you had any kind of work to the truck lately? New tires? When exactly did the noise start? More info..
 
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I have the same exact thing going on and it has been for a while, before I had my billsteins put on it was coming from the drivers side now it comes from the passenger side. The dealership tell me the same thing, that everything is tight, at one point they tried telling me it was the lift I put on. Dealerships are completely worthless. Good luck.
 
Same thing here too. I check back to see if someone hit me or something. Doesn't happen all the time so it hasn't bothered too much. There is another thread on here all about that.
 
Search Axle Wrap. There is a TSB on it and mine is getting a new driveshaft next week. Yours is a '12 though so you might need to check SN's to see if you fall in the slot.
 
Stock 2012 TE No KDSS

I have no similar noise under any of the conditions you cited. I do have the vibration at highway speeds but that is another topic.
 
No such on my '10 TE with 40,300 miles on it. I first thought of the the TSB'd driveshaft, which I suffered from, but with a 2012 T4R you already have the updated driveshshaft. Hmmm.....
 
timothyjmares said:
I am new here, just joined this morning. I am the mostly happy owner of a new 2012 Shoreline Blue Trail Edition. KDSS and all.
gu1.jpg
Click to expand...

I don't get it?
 
FERAL 4R said:
Zeder. Have you had any kind of work to the truck lately? New tires? When exactly did the noise start? More info..
Click to expand...

Hi,
Just the new, well now old, because tomorrow morning I get 4 new ones. That the only work so far. I noticed it the second day I had it home.

I found 2 dealerships with TE in stock, so I am going to take one for a test drive around their parking lot to see if I can duplicate it. If I can, I will not be leaving my dealership until it is fixed.

I have to deal with the DuraTrac issue tomorrow first though. My first 8000km oil change will be coming up in a month, so I may just leave it with them at that point.
 
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Update,

OK... the steering vibration is gone now. Well 95% of it. It took a new set of DuraTrac's to accomplish this. But it worked! LUG CENTRIC / ROAD FORCE BALANCE!

Now on to the suspension noise:

Review. I get a thump/thud when I stab the brakes. I also get a right twitch in the steering wheel of about 10deg when I stab the brakes too. The truck stops true, there is no pull after this initial twitch. The noise actually happens when I release the brake. Doing 20km/h and pumping the brakes quickly and sharply with produce the sound and steering wheel twitch on demand.

My TE is at the dealer right now getting looked at a second time. I took the same shop foreman for a ride around the parking lot and demonstrated the problem again, and he still thinks the sound is not normal but he does not know where to look next. "Well, have a look at this..." I said.
This is where I pulled out my TE binder. Vehicle history binder that I keep for all vehicles. You know, bill of sale, service records, accessories, etc. I was under my TE and took a few pictures of the suspension components, which I had printed for him.

Here are the pictures and here is my theory:

TE sitting on level ground with the steering wheel centered.

Photo of Left side sway bar bushing has no gap between the rubber and sway bar. The Right bushing has about a 1mm of gap on the inside of the bushing.

The noise/thump/rattle I feel in the steering wheel and hear, is coming from the right side, the side with the gap in the bushing.

I have noticed that when it gets warm outside, like 30 deg C, the noise issue clunking when I stab the brakes, gets worse. Rubber sway bar bushing gets softer and loads up more and the gap gets bigger, then when I release the brake I get a thunk, as the sway bar gets pulled down on the bushing. When its cooler it is not as bad. The rubber does not compress as much. It shows up on washboard very typical for a bad /loose bushing.

Now as for the steering twitch, I am not sure. Its almost like I have a sticking caliper or something. The right side grabs first then the left comes on, maybe? As I stated earlier, it stops straight and true, with no pulling once the initial twitch is gone. I have been trying to wrap my head around how a sway bar bushing could cause this, but it should not have any effect on the steering assembly should it?

So that's my (current) theory and I am waiting to see what the dealer is going to say/do about it by the end of today.

Will update later tonight to reveal today's efforts...
Z
 

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Thanks 1engineer,

I have seen this TSB before and this is not the issue. It is definitely in the front end as per the steering twitch and noise thumping over washboard.

Thank you for your input though.
Z
 
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