Valve Cover Removal (Sludge Check) PICS

[BrianSD_42]

i think the main thing is just to do consistant oil changes with the occasional additive.

If you just bought a rig and it has major sludge then it was probably from the PO not taking care of the engine.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Jon,

You do not need to replace the half moons (semi-circular plug), just pull all four out of the heads, remove the old FIPG, and reinstall them using FIPG or Permatex equivalent. DO spend the money on two new cam seal plugs and a PCV grommet though.

Here in the South, and in need of a valve job, my 4runner seems to run better with 10w-30 in it.

 

[Jon]

Jon,

You do not need to replace the half moons (semi-circular plug), just pull all four out of the heads, remove the old FIPG, and reinstall them using FIPG or Permatex equivalent. DO spend the money on two new cam seal plugs and a PCV grommet though.

Here in the South, and in need of a valve job, my 4runner seems to run better with 10w-30 in it.

Man I need some pics. I just ordered 4 cam plugs from the dealer for $30. I thought the half moons were the cam plugs. The rest of the kit will be from Advance Auto, Beck Arnley kit for $58 to include both gaskets, 6 spark plug grommets and 16 bolt grommets ($116 from stealership). I'm getting a new PCV valve and grommet.

Is there a trick to getting that driver's side off or just go ahead and remove the intake plenum?

 

[JayRolla]

I find it hard to believe that ALL car manufacturers do not make it an absolute requirement to run 100% synthetic oil.

Run 100% synthetic and you will never get sludge even if you are horribly negligent at changing your oil.
If Toyota had stated 100% synthetic to be run in all their engines they would have saved themselves about a billion or two dollars because they never would have had that engine sludge fiasco they had.

I can see some sludge in my engine just looking through the fill hole, it doesn't look really bad but its there and the guy before me changed his oil regularly every 3500-4500 miles going by the 3"-4" thick pile of maintenance records that he had and came with the truck.

If he had used 100% synthetic and let it go 8000 miles it would have zero sludge.

Actually not true, if you dont change your oil it will still sludge up. I dont know why people run synthtic. Regular oil is as good as long as you change it every 5000 miles.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Here is a link Jon that shows you the difference:
5vzfe leaky valve covers fixed (56k beware) - YotaTech Forums

Yes, the manifold has to come off.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Actually not true, if you dont change your oil it will still sludge up. I dont know why people run synthtic. Regular oil is as good as long as you change it every 5000 miles.

Yet I bet you can not show me a single engine that used 100% synthetic that changed their oil normally 4000-5000 mile interval that has sludge build up.
Nobody is saying to not change the oil.

Meanwhile every single one of these massively sludged engines that I have seen are running Petroleum oil.
Not sure about the 4Runner engine but I know in my wifes old Lexus ES300 that Petroleum oil was NOT in anyway even close to as good as 100% Synthetic.
Even if you changed your oil every 4000 miles or less with that engine you were likely to get sludge running Petroleum oil because of how hot the top end of the engine got, when you stopped the engine and the oil ran down into the pan that thin film of oil left literally cooked.
With synthetic that does not happen.

So while the 4Runner engine "may" be just fine if you change the oil every 3000 miles, Petroleum oil is NOT just as good and does NOT protect as well.
I mean scientifically speaking you can empirically prove that petroleum oil starts breaking down almost immediately while quality synthetic takes FAR longer.
So I don't see why people DON'T run Synthetic.

 

[T4R2014]

Did you just bump an old thread to talk about synthetics?

He said that conventional oil is perfectly fine for 5000 mile intervals, which is what the interval recommended by Toyota was for 3rd Gens. I see no problem with this either. I have done the same on many cars which had spotless valvetrains. The 1MZ sludging issue is more of a design issue from Toyota and they would have saved tons by making synthetics mandatory. However, with the tiny cost gap and benefits of synthetics I see no reason to use conventional anymore.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Did you just bump an old thread to talk about synthetics?

He said that conventional oil is perfectly fine for 5000 mile intervals, which is what the interval recommended by Toyota was for 3rd Gens. I see no problem with this either. I have done the same on many cars which had spotless valvetrains. The 1MZ sludging issue is more of a design issue from Toyota and they would have saved tons by making synthetics mandatory. However, with the tiny cost gap and benefits of synthetics I see no reason to use conventional anymore.

Actually no, I clicked the link from someone else on another thread and then felt compelled to say something. I actually had already started before noticing it was such an old thread.
But I am not so sure most petroleum oil is all that fine and dandy at 5000 mile intervals depending on other circumstances.
Such as if you drive only short distances rarely allowing the engine to warm up, maybe have a issue with your PCV valve, running a subpar air filter in very dusty conditions and all the various other reasons that screw with your oil. In other words, if everything isn't just right I think petroleum oil needs to be changed FAR more frequently than 5000 miles
Personally under the conditions that I drive which is mostly short trips and not many miles a year then I would never let petroleum oil go past 3000 miles.
I have no problem letting good quality Synthetic go a full year before changing which on average for me is only about 4000-5000 miles.
I would have to do two changes with petroleum oil in a year.
When I went on a long cross country trip of close to 8000 miles I had absolutely no problems letting the oil go for 8000 miles because 95% of the driving was 65-75mph hundreds of miles per day.
I would NOT have let the petroleum go more than maybe 4000 and would have had to do an oil change in the middle of my trip AND another at the end.

I agree with the 1MZ issue, clearly design related BUT it also clearly shows how much better that Synthetic oil is.
As did my old souped up VW engine that was oil cooled, a 1835CC ported, polished, flycut, 9.5to1 compression and pushing over 200hp.
With conventional oil it would get hot and lose power even on rather cool days and rather quickly, I tried everything, deep sump, external cooler put on the roof under scoop, nothing helped.
A friend turned me onto Amsoil 20W50 racing oil in 1977 and BAM, never overheated never lost power again even in 100 degree desert temps. That little VW ran like a bat outa hell after that.
I was sold from that day forward.

 

[T4R2014]

Actually no, I clicked the link from someone else on another thread and then felt compelled to say something. I actually had already started before noticing it was such an old thread.
But I am not so sure most petroleum oil is all that fine and dandy at 5000 mile intervals depending on other circumstances.
Such as if you drive only short distances rarely allowing the engine to warm up, maybe have a issue with your PCV valve, running a subpar air filter in very dusty conditions and all the various other reasons that screw with your oil. In other words, if everything isn't just right I think petroleum oil needs to be changed FAR more frequently than 5000 miles
Personally under the conditions that I drive which is mostly short trips and not many miles a year then I would never let petroleum oil go past 3000 miles.
I have no problem letting good quality Synthetic go a full year before changing which on average for me is only about 4000-5000 miles.
I would have to do two changes with petroleum oil in a year.
When I went on a long cross country trip of close to 8000 miles I had absolutely no problems letting the oil go for 8000 miles because 95% of the driving was 65-75mph hundreds of miles per day.
I would NOT have let the petroleum go more than maybe 4000 and would have had to do an oil change in the middle of my trip AND another at the end.

I agree with the 1MZ issue, clearly design related BUT it also clearly shows how much better that Synthetic oil is.
As did my old souped up VW engine that was oil cooled, a 1835CC ported, polished, flycut, 9.5to1 compression and pushing over 200hp.
With conventional oil it would get hot and lose power even on rather cool days and rather quickly, I tried everything, deep sump, external cooler put on the roof under scoop, nothing helped.
A friend turned me onto Amsoil 20W50 racing oil in 1977 and BAM, never overheated never lost power again even in 100 degree desert temps. That little VW ran like a bat outa hell after that.
I was sold from that day forward.

Any pics of the VW? Sounds like a fun machine.

I would say that certain engines are not as picky as others. The best way to really tell is through a UOA. However, I still believe that conventional is useless. You can pick up a bottle of Pennzoil synthetic for as cheap as any conventional and you have the longer drain intervals and cold start benefits. I usually change my oil once a year at this point since I never get past 5k in a year.

I've always found Amsoil's marketing quite sketchy. I recall them guaranteeing 25,000 mile oil change intervals. That sounds downright scary.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Any pics of the VW? Sounds like a fun machine.

I would say that certain engines are not as picky as others. The best way to really tell is through a UOA. However, I still believe that conventional is useless. You can pick up a bottle of Pennzoil synthetic for as cheap as any conventional and you have the longer drain intervals and cold start benefits. I usually change my oil once a year at this point since I never get past 5k in a year.

I've always found Amsoil's marketing quite sketchy. I recall them guaranteeing 25,000 mile oil change intervals. That sounds downright scary.

I think I may have one of the VW (Baja Bug) that I took right after I got it, I drove to the top of Saddleback mountain up the firebreak roads.
That was about 1977-78. I might try to take a digital photo of it.

It was a great "UAV" Urban Assault Vehicle, ran 36" Dick Cepeks in the rear and 35" 8ply sidewall military Jeep tires in the front, If I got a flat (they were tube tires) in the front tires they were so heavy duty and the VW so light in the front that I could still ride at 60 mph on the highway with a flat.
Front end was made from a cadmium dipped VW Thing which is about 4" wider, much taller shock towers and at least twice as beefy as stock VW bug.
Had Porsche deep bucket Recaro seats, full 5 point racing harnesses.
A Berg Warner 5 speed close ratio gearing.
A custom made 25 gallon fuel safe that was the whole back seat area with sight tube in between the seats showing exactly how much gas is available.
A full roll cage from bumper to bumper and side brush guards made by who at the time was THE go to guy for Baja 1000 work (Bill Savage) who made the roll cage, the front end and also custom made shocks specifically for my VW.
They were about 4 feet long in the rear and went up through the pan and connected inside to the roll cage, same with the front shocks, custom made.

Engine was built by Ray Stephens which again at that time in the 70s and 80s was THE guy in the area to build racing VW and Porsche engines in Southern California.
Combined with that Berg 5 it was quick as hell, not fast, top end was wound out at about 85 miles per hour BUT it would do 0-60 in like 4 1/2 seconds.
I could pull the front end off the ground about 6" when I got on it at a dead start. Those giant and sticky Dick Cepeks would just go "Chirp" front end came up and I was gone.

I put in Datsun B210 axles in the rear which were massive compared to the tiny little axles and CVs of a stock bug, it also got rid the CVs as the B210 axles were U joints and had a lot more travel, about 3-4" wider and able to handle a lot more lift.

I remember one time a Supercharged 56 Chevy, the type that gets beside you and your car is rumbling and rattling from the sound of their engine.
I beat him across the intersection which he wasn't really going for it but it still kinda pissed him off so he got right behind me and then gunned it and blazed by me on the left, so I returned the favor and before he even pulled in front of me I had already slammed the petal to the metal and whipped on by him on the left and pulled in front of him.
This was night time, we were doing about 80 in a 45 and I knew this street well, there was a BIG dip coming up was a cross street where the street going across was raised higher in the center and had two full gutters on both sides, so was a gutter DIP then rounded raised area then another gutter DIP.
I hit it as fast as my VW could go about 80-85mph and barely even felt that I went over anything, could have had a full glass of wine in my hand and not spilled a drop.
I look in the rear view and I see his two headlights dip down hard because he was slamming on his brakes, then I saw SPARKS and no headlights at all, what I was looking at was the total BOTTOM of his Chevy with the headlights virtually straight up in the air and then BAM I see headlights and sparks again.
I would imagine that he damn near totalled the frame of that Chevy which was lowered and had that massive engine up front, I am sure his tires were both sticking out like wings.
I had to LMAO.


I agree about Amsoils marketing, do not like it at all, BUT I can not fault the oil.
It is still guaranteed for 25,000 miles in normal driving or 12 months as long as you use a oil filter that can handle that much filtration.

Like you I only drive about 5000 a year and just do a 1 year oil change.
I think the only way that I would let oil go UP TO 15,000 is if I was using a Bypass Oil Filter and was driving nothing but highway miles, even then I doubt I would let it go a full 15,000.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Everyone is talking about the PC Value ... I'm never touched mine - should I replace it? No problems that I know of so far.

 

[ASUMTNEER]

Everyone is talking about the PC Value ... I'm never touched mine - should I replace it? No problems that I know of so far.

You can get both the PCV valve and new grommet for less than $10 from Advanced Auto Parts. Good, cheap insurance and peace of mind. Go ahead and change it. Order online and use promo code TRT30 to save 30%, and you're probably looking at $7-$8 after tax.

 

[blairvt]

do I need the grommet also? I got qa mew PCV but left the old grommet

 

[ben550]

I changed out my PCV Valve after buying my used 4runner. The old one did not appear to be clogged but I changed it for peace of mind.

 

[kolelt]

That's pretty cool. I see sludge under my oil filler cap when I change the oil and I wonder what the upper engine looks like. I am a little scared to pull the valve cover and find out. Is there any way to clean up a sludge mess?

Probably because oil sits in the little groves vs being circulated through engine. My cap had little sludge but heads were clean.

 

[Brilliant]

I find it hard to believe that ALL car manufacturers do not make it an absolute requirement to run 100% synthetic oil.

Run 100% synthetic and you will never get sludge even if you are horribly negligent at changing your oil.
If Toyota had stated 100% synthetic to be run in all their engines they would have saved themselves about a billion or two dollars because they never would have had that engine sludge fiasco they had.

I can see some sludge in my engine just looking through the fill hole, it doesn't look really bad but its there and the guy before me changed his oil regularly every 3500-4500 miles going by the 3"-4" thick pile of maintenance records that he had and came with the truck.

If he had used 100% synthetic and let it go 8000 miles it would have zero sludge.

I've seen slugged engines running synthetic due to long oil change intervals.

The 15k interval recommended by manufactuerers.

 

[repo]

Short trips is the big cause of sludge from what I've been reading. The engine doesn't get hot enough to burn off the water and carbon. Which is why the PCV is important because it vents it out. I just changed mine while doing the valve cover gaskets, the old one wasn't clogged and seemed to be fine, but I think the baffle underneath on the cover was getting clogged up. I sprayed a bunch of TB cleaner in there and washed out some crud. I had a bit of oil collecting in the manifold and air intake. The driver side was much cleaner because I think it has been venting better.

LittleCaesar on another thread suggested doing an "Italian tuneup" once a month if you mostly do short trips.

 

[repo]

Here's what mine look like at 190k with once a year jiffylube/big-o cheap oil changes (only drive about 5k a year) and plenty of short school runs. I'm going to switch to mobil1 high mileage every 3k from now on though, and I changed the PCV, grommet, hose, and cleaned the MAF, IAC, TB.

 

[shootmymime]

Here's what mine look like at 190k with once a year jiffylube/big-o cheap oil changes (only drive about 5k a year) and plenty of short school runs. I'm going to switch to mobil1 high mileage every 3k from now on though, and I changed the PCV, grommet, hose, and cleaned the MAF, IAC, TB.

i run about 8-10 K miles on my mobile one i would say 3K miles is kinda throwing money away when it comes to that oil. but when you do drain it check and see the color of it. i would assume that it would still be pretty close to its original color at that millage.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I've seen slugged engines running synthetic due to long oil change intervals.

The 15k interval recommended by manufactuerers.

and 15K is ridiculous UNLESS you use a "Bypass oil filter" which keeps the oil much cleaner.
You will not get sludge running 100% "REAL" synthetic at the normal 5000-7500 mile interval because a good standard twist on Oil Filter can handle about that much filtration of small particulates.
If you get a good quality bypass filter then you could run the 100% Synthetic to 15K.

So its not really the oil thats the problem if you have seen engines sludge running "100% real synthetic" (of which there are only what about 4-6 oils that are in fact real synthetic?)
It was either running a wannabe synthetic and OR trying to filter 15,000 miles of crap through a 7000 mile filter thus somewhere around 10,000 miles or so that spin on filter was clogged and bypassing dirty oil which is why it would sludge.