ndcent
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My life is f^cking awesome, no luck needed. Enough about you obsessing about me though, back on topic Big Guy!
Who's ready for President Trump!
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My life is f^cking awesome, no luck needed. Enough about you obsessing about me though, back on topic Big Guy!
ndcent
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Police and Fire Departments are examples of Democratic Socialism, which most people don't understand. They just hear the dreaded "s" word and respond with fear based knee jerk responses bc they're willfully ignorant.
Explaining Socialism To A Republican
flighht2k5
New member
No. Fire departments have been around a long time before socialism. There were fire departments during the revolution.
In fact Benjamin Franklin was involved
http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/philadelphia/fire.htm
wadle5
New member
Calling another ignorant is in itself. . .ignorant one would think? The funny thing is you reemed me previously for posting blog like websites as a references so good job calling the kettle black. I'm just glad by labeling Socialism "democratic socialism" definitely changes the appeal . .I mean look how cuba and venezuela turned out with Democratic Socialism. The concept has never worked, and for some reason supporters think this is either a new concept totally different from other attempts in the past or believe there is a solid track record.
In regards to your overused and misunderstood fire dept argument
Fire Departments are run by local entities, not the national government. This means each and every local entity can run their FD as they see fit. In the city in which I live, we have a volunteer FD. Other cities employ full time units. This is the way our system of government, federalism, was originally designed: to allow local communities to meet their own needs as they each see fit. Constitutional lawyer Mark Levin, I believe, explains the benefits of federalism best:
States are more likely to better reflect the interests of their citizens than the federal government. Localities are even more likely to better reflect these interests because the decision makers come from the communities they govern – they are directly affected by their own decisions. Moreover, the interaction between the people and their representatives at the state and local levels is easier and more direct. When the federal government acts beyond its constitutional limits, it assaults the purest form of representative government by supplanting representative decision making at the state and local levels. The federal government cannot possibly comprehend the diversity of interests that are affected by its decision making. It cannot adequately weigh the costs and benefits of its decisions on communities. Besides, that is not its purpo se. It seeks to dictate rather than represent.
This is not socialism – at all. Socialism, loosely defined, is an economic system centrally-planned by a government where the means and distribution of goods are owned collectively. A service run by the government (e.g. armed forces, fire departments, etc.) is not prima facie evidence that socialism exists within a country. This runs contrary to what liberals would have us believe when they cite the evidence of a government-run service as evidence America already enjoys some limited benefits of socialism. This is demonstrably false.
Good luck on proving him wrong, he will go off on some other tangent now that you have proven him wrong. :beer:
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hikenbike
New member
and yet you fully support a candidate who makes juvenile attacks and smart a** comments all day and night??
KidVermicious
New member
No, they aren't. They've been co-opted by modern Democratic Socialists to try and make their movement seem soft and cuddly, but the idea of firemen and policemen paid from tax money predates the concept of Democratic Socialism by thousands of years.
Members of a community collaborating and specializing to make their lives easier =/ Socialism, in any of it's disguises.
simple
Senior Member
Well, to be fair, just because it came before 'socialism' doesn't mean it's not socialist. And that's ideal, privatized fire dept/police services are terrifying.
Not to open another can of worms but politicized police depts enrage me. Like when the cops turned their back on the NY mayor after 2 of there own were murdered. This shit drives me up the wall, you're police officers, you're not politically 'aware'. That battle gets fought behind the scenes, with their Capt fighting the fight. Not in the public eye.
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flighht2k5
New member
Just like everything, they start out as communities fending for themselves and the gov thinking it can do it better at a much higher cost and often as a failing thing but supported by gov money.
Guess it's the state of American politics, but it's amusing how this thread in short order took on all the characteristics if the Republican debates. Small hands, little Marco, liar liar pants on fire ..... As an observer and a student of politics only, I would bet that the Donald will not get enough delegates in the primary season to win the nomination outright, and the Republican old guard will try to find "their guy". Who will it be, one of the current candidates, a young Turk like Nikki Haley, or an established "statesman" like Romney? If it isn't Trump, will he run Third Party? If it is him, will someone else run third party? Like Perot, when he enabled Bill Clinton to victory over George Bush with a vote per cent in the low 40s.
And as someone very knowledgable if the Federal judicial system, the news about Hilary's IT guy being immunized against federal prosecution is beyond significant. To get immunity, you have to come in and "proffer", which is tell the government everything you know, i.e. what you have to offer. If you don't have anything substantive to offer that furthers the government's investigation, you don't get immunity. This ain't no "security review" (such an animal does not exist in the FBI), it's a criminal investigation. I would expect that Hilary will be indicted for Federal felonies before the Democratic convention. This business of granting immunity comes later in investigations, so the FBI can know as much as possible before taking the proffer. Can she run while under charges, then pardon herself after the election?
So, will it be Bernie (it won't help me, I already paid my my and my kids college, and I am not in need of any government freebies, but I might if I have to send your kids to college too), or will it be someone being held in reserve (Biden, Kerry, Jim Webb, Oprah Winfrey)?
It is all so bizarre nothing at this point would be a surprise.
And as someone very knowledgable if the Federal judicial system, the news about Hilary's IT guy being immunized against federal prosecution is beyond significant. To get immunity, you have to come in and "proffer", which is tell the government everything you know, i.e. what you have to offer. If you don't have anything substantive to offer that furthers the government's investigation, you don't get immunity. This ain't no "security review" (such an animal does not exist in the FBI), it's a criminal investigation. I would expect that Hilary will be indicted for Federal felonies before the Democratic convention. This business of granting immunity comes later in investigations, so the FBI can know as much as possible before taking the proffer. Can she run while under charges, then pardon herself after the election?
So, will it be Bernie (it won't help me, I already paid my my and my kids college, and I am not in need of any government freebies, but I might if I have to send your kids to college too), or will it be someone being held in reserve (Biden, Kerry, Jim Webb, Oprah Winfrey)?
It is all so bizarre nothing at this point would be a surprise.
Hepar
New member
That seems to be one of the biggest issues on both sides of the coin this year. If there was a more viable GOP candidate, Trump wouldn't be even a consideration. And while I do like certain parts of Bernie's platforms, I feel he's too far left on most, so that leaves Hillary?! :ybrick:
LittleCaesar
New member
I just hope Trump brings back Trump steaks when he wins. I miss seeing them at the Sharper Image. I am hoping also for an Apprentice at the White House show as well.
I was really hoping for the Trump hairpiece to be marketed. As a bald man I want to be stylish, and if it works well for the Donald it surely would be good for me.
I also like the idea of getting rid of (scaled down to nothing) the EPA, no need for such government waste. 8 billion saved right there.
I was really hoping for the Trump hairpiece to be marketed. As a bald man I want to be stylish, and if it works well for the Donald it surely would be good for me.
I also like the idea of getting rid of (scaled down to nothing) the EPA, no need for such government waste. 8 billion saved right there.
BrianSD_42
New member
Come on man, reform the EPA but don't get rid of it.
Have your read about Flint MI? It's a criminal disaster. We need some kind of organization to look out for the environment and our families.
Have your read about Flint MI? It's a criminal disaster. We need some kind of organization to look out for the environment and our families.
BrianSD_42
New member
So we get to choose between:
HK - who is a complete corporatist
DT - who sounds like someone who is interested in founding a new "National Socialist American Workers Party"
BS- An actual socialist (his own words)
Hmmmmm. It's going to be an interesting 2016.
HK - who is a complete corporatist
DT - who sounds like someone who is interested in founding a new "National Socialist American Workers Party"
BS- An actual socialist (his own words)
Hmmmmm. It's going to be an interesting 2016.
That's HC, right?
I'm pretty much an "anyone but Trump" voter at this point. He's just batshit crazy.
wadle5
New member
But what about the whole spill in Colorado caused by the EPA? No repercussions there. While we do need people to monitor the safety of all, I think it obviously works better on a local government level.
MtnT4R
New member
I have to give it to you gents, this is a solidly entertaining thread :cheers:
Actually a pretty close mirror of my office environment. Should be a fun year. The two times I got cornered into giving my view, I just state the obvious- the appearance of a two party system is a joke. I think George Carlin said it best:
“Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations that've long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pocket, and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and the information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them.”
― George Carlin
Actually a pretty close mirror of my office environment. Should be a fun year. The two times I got cornered into giving my view, I just state the obvious- the appearance of a two party system is a joke. I think George Carlin said it best:
“Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land, they own and control the corporations that've long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pocket, and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and the information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else. But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them.”
― George Carlin
Sisente
Member
What gets me is everyone focuses on flints water, but never go beyond and try to figure out how it got that way in the first place. Yes, the lead pipes are a huge problem, but the already horrible water, mixed with lead pipes is horrible. I bet, some large company, sitting in some representatives pockets, is to blame for the water pollution. My 2 cents
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